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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

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  • #1111
    Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

    Here is a link to in-depth analysis of the workout: http://www.hooplife.ca/raptorshq/vie...cle.php?id=701

    Here's the analysis on T-Will:

    As for Williams, he was in top form.

    He’s in great shape having worked out with Gary Payton since the end of the college season, his shot mechanics look better and better, and he’s still as dominant as ever athletically.

    The Raptors ran the prospects through an interesting drill where one player would have to defend each of the other five individuals in turn. Only when the defensive player got a stop or rebounded a missed shot, did the next player take their turn attacking. If the defender committed a foul or failed to gain the possession, the two would go at it again until a stop was made, or the offensive player scored. Each of the six individuals yesterday took their turn defending the other five and of the group, Williams dominated every player he was matched up with from an offensive standpoint, from Green to the taller Ingles. He settled for a jump shot once but otherwise simply attacked off the bounce using his superior quickness and athleticism. (Sidebar – it was interesting to hear the Raptors’ brass continuously yelling for players “not to settle” in this drill. Think BC is looking for someone who’s going to attack the basket?) Williams is also extremely strong as even if the defender managed to get Terrence to pick up his dribble, Williams would simply put his shoulder into his man and power through to the hoop or out-jump his man in order to drop-in a baby-hook.

    Defensively, Williams excelled as well locking down almost everyone from Green to the much taller Ingles. Only on one occasion did Williams fall for the fake, unfortunately resulting in a dunk.

    However as much as we are fans of Williams’ game, he’s still got some work to do. His shot looks much improved from a standstill position (he was nearly automatic in drills from beyond the arc), however in motion, he still struggles with consistent form. Considering that the Raptors hardly need another long-range threat however, I’m not sure that’s so much of a concern. A bigger concern in my books is his ball-handling. Williams is virtually unstoppable on one-bounce plays to the rim, but you could see yesterday that he still has trouble creating off the dribble, as his handle just isn’t where it needs to be yet for an NBA slasher.

    Also, just a note too on how exhausting these workouts are. Terrence Williams made an interesting point in my earlier conversation with him that there’s a big difference between working out in a gym by yourself, and being in these settings.

    “When you’re working out at the gym, there’s no coaches in there, you feel you’re going hard, but you tend to go at your own pace. When you’re here with the GM and the head coach here, you tend to run more, even if it’s just to get some water.”

    That being said, as tired as Williams was, he showed just how competitive he can be. As I’ve mentioned before, you can never make snap judgments about players in these settings, however there are certain pieces of minutia that do tend to stand out.

    In the last drill of the day, the Raptors had all six players doing as many baseline to baseline laps as they could within a three-minute time-span. Joe Ingles raced out to an early lead while Williams was lagging quite far behind the rest of the group. At first glance, it looked like he was dogging it a bit – after all, the last drill of the day that failed to involve anything directly related to basketball was hardly going to decide your draft fate right? However with about a minute left I looked back up and suddenly, Williams was right back with the rest of the pack! And once about 15 seconds was left on the clock, Williams suddenly turned on the reserves and began an all-out sprint, just missing finishing ahead of the rest of the group.

    This is the sort of thing you like to see in these settings. Last year I watched players like Marreese Speights waltz through the workouts and it hardly was an encouraging sign. Williams could easily have done the same considering he was by far the most highly touted of yesterday’s group, however even in something as simple as running laps, he wanted to finish at the top of the pile.

    Comment

    • #1112
      Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

      Thankfully he was working out with players of his own calibur...

      oh wait a minute...you mean he was working out against two 2nd round to undrafted players and other unknown players...?

      Comment

      • #1113
        Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

        Originally posted by flox View Post
        Thankfully he was working out with players of his own calibur...

        oh wait a minute...you mean he was working out against two 2nd round to undrafted players and other unknown players...?
        Just take it for what it's worth, man... I think we're all aware that workouts arent the be all and end all. Just remember Ike Diogu made Chris Taft quit his workout after their 1v1. Look where that got Ike.

        Comment

        • #1114
          Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

          Originally posted by UncleReg View Post
          Just take it for what it's worth, man... I think we're all aware that workouts arent the be all and end all. Just remember Ike Diogu made Chris Taft quit his workout after their 1v1. Look where that got Ike.
          Remember where Chris Taft was drafted and where he is now..?

          Comment

          • #1115
            Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

            Not because of a lack of talent though. IIRC he was playing well in Golden State until some sort of injury....

            Comment

            • #1116
              Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

              http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...aftTour-090515

              Workout Tour: Hansbrough and Riek

              By Chad Ford
              ESPN.com
              Archive

              Here's a little tip that may sound weird at first. A source says Phoenix is taking a hard look at Pitt's DeJuan Blair. Blair doesn't seem like an instant fit in the uptempo run-and-gun style the Suns like to play. But remember that Steve Kerr has been trying to change the culture of this team, making it tougher and more defense-oriented. Blair brings that.

              However, it also appears that the Bucks, Nets and Pacers, all of whom draft ahead of the Suns, are also watching Blair closely.
              "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

              - Salman Rushdie

              Comment

              • #1117
                Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

                Three draft enigmas to watch
                These three players could be lottery-bound ... or could slide down several spots

                By Chad Ford

                BRADENTON, Fla. -- Over the past week, I've been in gyms watching a "sure thing" (Blake Griffin) and two locks for the top five (Hasheem Thabeet and James Harden).

                At the end of the week, I traveled from the West Coast to Florida to the Pro Training Center at IMG Academy in Bradenton to get a closer look at three players ranked in my Top 15 who scouts are much more divided on -- UCLA's Jrue Holiday, Louisville's Earl Clark and Pittsburgh's DeJuan Blair.

                Those three are currently ranked eighth, 11th and 12th in my Top 100 -- but the truth is they all could end up going significantly higher or lower than the late lottery as teams try to get a better feel for them. While each player is totally different, all three are a bit of an enigma.

                Holiday has as much upside as the elite players in the draft. He was ranked as the sixth-best prospect in our preseason Top 100. Clark has the size, skills and athleticism to be a dominant player in the league. Blair was the country's top tough guy and one of the best offensive rebounders ever in college.

                However, each player also possesses question marks that have scouts scratching their heads. Holiday struggled to produce in Ben Howland's system at UCLA. Clark looked like a superstar in some games and an NBDL prospect in others at Louisville. Blair struggled with his weight and conditioning and is undersized to play the 4 in the NBA.

                After spending the day with them, watching two on-the-court workouts, seeing them in the weight room and sitting down with each player to discuss the draft, here's my take on all three:


                Jrue Holiday, PG, Fr., UCLA (ranked No. 8 on our big board)

                Holiday joined UCLA with a terrific high-school reputation. He wasn't the flashiest or most dominant player, but he was widely regarded as the most complete player in the incoming freshman class of 2008. His ability to score, pass and defend, coupled with a terrific basketball IQ, had many NBA scouts pegging him as a lottery pick in 2009.

                Holiday was expected to inherit the starting point guard position once Darren Collison declared for the 2008 NBA draft. But when Collison decided to return for his senior year, Holiday's freshman run started to derail. Howland moved Holiday to the 2 and asked him to play off the ball on offense, something Holiday had never done before. While there were times that Holiday looked the part of a lottery pick, as the season went on it became harder and harder to see. He lacked confidence on the offensive end and in some games hardly showed anything.

                Holiday's frustration extended beyond playing out of position. Howland's half-court, grind-it-out approach on offense was also a thorn in Holiday's side. By the end of a disappointing season, a flustered Holiday surprised a lot of NBA people by declaring for the draft.

                He has spent the past month traveling back and forth between Florida and L.A. trying to juggle prepping for the draft with school at UCLA. While Holiday maintains that he is still trying to figure out whether he'll stay in the draft or return to school, the word is he's strongly leaning toward the NBA.

                After spending the day watching him work out, it's not hard to see why. In a workout setting, Holiday looks much more like the player NBA scouts fell in love with in high school.

                The first thing you notice about Holiday is his size. He was measured at 6-foot-4 in shoes and 205 pounds. That's terrific for a point guard. He also has a nice frame and should get stronger as his body matures. Still just 18 years old, he's the youngest player on my top-20 list.

                One of the early problems in scouting Holiday during the season was the unfair comparison to Russell Westbrook, another UCLA guard who went from being an unknown to the No. 4 pick in the 2008 draft. Westbrook was a freakish athlete with great speed and explosive leaping ability. When Holiday didn't show that uber-athleticism at UCLA, everyone was disappointed.

                The truth is that Holiday isn't an elite athlete in the ways that Westbrook is. He's not as explosive a leaper, nor is he lightning-fast streaking down the court. But he is a very good athlete. He's quick with the ball, knows how to use his big body to hurt smaller defenders, and showed good leaping ability in the gym.

                Holiday struggled as a shooter at UCLA, but watching him in the gym this week, I don't have any real concerns there. He has great form on his jump shot and was hitting virtually every midrange jump shot and college 3-pointer that he took. Holiday is still finding his range from the NBA 3-point line. He can make the shot but is much more inconsistent stepping out the extra few feet ... but the truth is almost all prospects have the same issue when transitioning from college to the pros.

                Holiday also showed off his terrific defensive abilities. He's strong, long, quick and active. He has the potential to be a lockdown defender at either backcourt position in the pros. Given the rise of elite, virtually unstoppable guards in the league, that alone could get him drafted high.

                Holiday's biggest challenge will be his confidence. In a workout setting, where he's getting a lot of positive reinforcement and is allowed to be himself, he's really thriving again and looks like a lottery pick all the way.

                But there's no guarantee that the team that picks him will have a head coach who will allow him to play to his strengths. Holiday wilted a bit under a difficult coach in college. Will he be able to handle similar adversity in the NBA?

                Given his background, intelligence and work ethic, my guess is that most NBA teams will be willing to take the risk. In a draft without a lot of players with big upside, Holiday has the chance to be a special player someday. I think he'll fall somewhere in the 8-14 range on draft night. The Knicks, Raptors, Bucks, Pacers and Suns are all possibilities for him. However, there is some interest even higher than that because Oklahoma City, Minnesota and Golden State all need point guards and have interest in Holiday. Remember, last year most teams had Westbrook ranked in a similar spot and he ended up going No. 4 in the draft. That's not out of the question for Holiday.


                Earl Clark, F, Jr., Louisville (ranked No. 11 in our Top 100)

                Clark is also an enigma, but in a different way. He has all the physical tools to be a superstar. He's long, very athletic and skilled. He can shoot, rebound, block shots, handle the ball, pass and run the floor. When he puts all of that together, he can look like a potential superstar.

                That's what makes Clark a bit dangerous to watch in a workout setting like this. It doesn't take long for your jaw to hit the floor. There really isn't anything on the court that Clark can't do well. He has guard-like abilities in the frame of a 6-foot-10 player.

                In a series of drills given to Clark, he did everything well.

                Ballhandling? Check. Just about as good as you'll see in a player his size.

                Athletic post moves? Check. He's quick, can turn on a dime and finishes way above the rim.

                Midrange game? Check. He can shoot off the dribble and has a nice, soft touch on his shot.

                Three-point range? It's coming. He's not a lights-out shooter from deep distance, but his form is pretty good and it goes in. I don't think Clark will make his living shooting 3-pointers in the league, but if he really concentrated on that aspect of his game, who knows?

                The question about Clark has always been about heart. Does he want to do what it takes to be a great NBA player? And can he maintain that effort for an 82-game season?

                Here's one anecdote from his workout that suggests he might be able to pass the test. After a workout, Clark sought out an NBA executive who was watching the workout with me that day. Clark introduced himself and then asked the executive, "What did you think of my workout?"

                The executive gave the standard "You looked good" answer and then Clark asked his follow-up.

                "No, what I want to know is, what do I need to work on? How do I improve? I'm just trying to get better."

                The executive said he couldn't remember, in all his years of scouting, a prospect coming up and asking that question.

                Clark may be one of the most difficult players to rate in the draft. Given the dearth of big men in this draft and his skills (I think he can play both the 3 and the 4 in the pros), only Blake Griffin has more upside as a 4. But there is also a risk. His upside may be Lamar Odom, but his downside could be a guy like Tim Thomas. His heart and effort ultimately will determine how great he can be.

                If he goes No. 5 or 6 in the draft, I would understand. If he slipped later in the lottery, I can see that too.

                DeJuan Blair, PF, So., Pittsburgh (ranked No. 12 in our Top 100)

                Blair doesn't have the same production issues that Holiday or Clark have faced. He's coming off a terrific season in which he proved to be one of the most dominant big men in the college game.

                Blair's ferocity on the boards and in the paint has a huge appeal in the league. Finding big men who want to play like big men is a tough find -- especially in this draft.

                The problem for Blair is in the definition of "big man." Blair is too big in one sense, and not big enough in another. He struggled with his weight through his first two seasons and has cracked 300 pounds before. On top of that, no one in the league expects Blair to measure much taller than 6-foot-6, maybe 6-7 in shoes. That's undersized for a power forward by almost any standard.

                Last week, when I listed the prospects I'd see on my pre-draft workout tour, I got a number of calls from NBA executives with the same request: "Let us know how Blair looks." NBA GMs want to love this guy. They need players like him. But they're scared off by the physical limitations he has.

                I'm happy to report that the news is good. He does look closer to 6-6 than 6-8, but he has a huge 7-foot-2 wingspan that makes up for his lack of height.

                As far as his weight goes, Blair looks considerably better than he looked at Pittsburgh. He has lost about 15 pounds in the first two weeks of training. His physique is much more chiseled. And most importantly, his athleticism has improved greatly due to losing that weight and improving his conditioning.

                Where that should help Blair the most is on the defensive end of the floor. A lot of teams are concerned that Blair won't have the foot speed to defend the pick-and-roll in the league. What I saw at his workout suggests that he does.

                Blair looked much quicker and more explosive than he looked at Pittsburgh. His quickness and leaping ability were impressive for someone his size. He went as hard as anyone in the gym that day and wasn't slowing down by the end.

                Perhaps most telling was a drill in which Blair and others had to throw the ball hard off the backboard, leap up to catch it, come back down and then leap again for a dunk. Blair repeatedly exploded up and finished strong above the rim. A few times it seemed like Blair would pull it down.

                On the skills portion, Blair is a work in progress. He still doesn't have much of a face-the-basket game. His shot mechanics are inconsistent so it's unlikely that he'll be a good pick-and-pop guy early in his career. His ballhandling also could use a lot of work. But then again, NBA teams aren't drafting him to shoot 3s and handle the ball.

                In a draft with just one dominant, physical big guy -- Blake Griffin -- Blair may be the guy who moves up to fill that gap. Last year, a number of NBA guys had Kevin Love ranked as a mid-first-round pick because of his perceived lack of size and athleticism. He wowed in workouts and then delivered as a rookie in Minnesota. That could help Blair's case, along with the NBA success of players like Paul Millsap and Carl Landry.

                Several teams in the lottery have shown a lot of interest. Toronto is desperate for a beast to match with Chris Bosh or Andrea Bargnani. The Bucks are in desperate need of a physical low-post presence to pair alongside Andrew Bogut (plus, Blair really seems like a Scott Skiles-type of player). The Nets are looking for the same thing to put next to Brook Lopez. The Pacers didn't have any real paint presence last season.

                And believe it or not, Suns GM Steve Kerr has been taking a close look at Blair, according to sources. The Suns don't at first blush appear to be a fit, but since Kerr trying to give them a more defensive identity, Blair could be exactly what they need to pair alongside Amare Stoudemire in their frontcourt.

                If all five of those teams pass, I doubt the Bulls would at No. 16. Adding his toughness to a front line of Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah could pay big dividends for the Bulls down the road.
                Last edited by OakMoses; 05-19-2009, 10:20 AM.
                "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                - Salman Rushdie

                Comment

                • #1118
                  Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

                  Everything I read only makes me want Jrue more.
                  "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                  - Salman Rushdie

                  Comment

                  • #1119
                    Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

                    Mel- You have been high on Jrue Holiday for a very long time. I see this happening with him the New York Knicks pick him up @ 8. If he is around when the Pacers draft I am starting to believe he might be can't miss pick @ 13. I would love to watch a workout with him, J Teague, Ty Evans, & Step Curry.

                    Comment

                    • #1120
                      Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

                      I like Holiday a lot.

                      D. Blair is a guy I can't figure out at all. Part of me is really intrigued by what he might bring to the table and part of me thinks he should have stay away stamped on his forehead.

                      I'm gonna get more involved in the draft talk now, I'm working and have more time on my hands to be useless.


                      Comment

                      • #1121
                        Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

                        Other than Griffin, Blair is the guy the Pacers need. Some ferociousness would do the
                        Pacers some good on the frontline.
                        {o,o}
                        |)__)
                        -"-"-

                        Comment

                        • #1122
                          Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

                          Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
                          Mel- You have been high on Jrue Holiday for a very long time. I see this happening with him the New York Knicks pick him up @ 8. If he is around when the Pacers draft I am starting to believe he might be can't miss pick @ 13. I would love to watch a workout with him, J Teague, Ty Evans, & Step Curry.
                          It's kind of funny, everything you read talks about Jrue tailing off toward the end of the season, but that's when I really started to like him. I watched a few UCLA games at the beginning of the season and couldn't figure out what all the hype was about. At that point they were using him entirely off the ball and he wasn't very assertive. By the end of the season, Howland was calling a few plays a game to use him as a PG with Collison off the ball. That was the point where I really liked what I saw.

                          I really do think that he'll be gone by 13, but I'm still holding out hope because there are so many mock drafts that show him still being around in the 20's.

                          If you want to compare him to Teague, Evans, and Curry, that's fine. I think he's the only PG in the bunch and he's also the best defender. The other three could all score more than Jrue, but they're not going to bring as complete of a game to the table.

                          Though I still think that Teague will have a lot of trouble getting his jumper off in the NBA. It's really flat, like Murphy's almost, so if he's playing against taller players, he's going to have trouble.
                          "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                          - Salman Rushdie

                          Comment

                          • #1123
                            Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

                            Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
                            Mel- You have been high on Jrue Holiday for a very long time. I see this happening with him the New York Knicks pick him up @ 8. If he is around when the Pacers draft I am starting to believe he might be can't miss pick @ 13. I would love to watch a workout with him, J Teague, Ty Evans, & Step Curry.
                            I think Teague is going to be the guy that wows people in workouts as we really get going here. I don't know what I really think of him though, he's extremely streaky.


                            Comment

                            • #1124
                              Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

                              Originally posted by mellifluous View Post
                              It's kind of funny, everything you read talks about Jrue tailing off toward the end of the season, but that's when I really started to like him. I watched a few UCLA games at the beginning of the season and couldn't figure out what all the hype was about. At that point they were using him entirely off the ball and he wasn't very assertive. By the end of the season, Howland was calling a few plays a game to use him as a PG with Collison off the ball. That was the point where I really liked what I saw.

                              I really do think that he'll be gone by 13, but I'm still holding out hope because there are so many mock drafts that show him still being around in the 20's.

                              If you want to compare him to Teague, Evans, and Curry, that's fine. I think he's the only PG in the bunch and he's also the best defender. The other three could all score more than Jrue, but they're not going to bring as complete of a game to the table.

                              Though I still think that Teague will have a lot of trouble getting his jumper off in the NBA. It's really flat, like Murphy's almost, so if he's playing against taller players, he's going to have trouble.
                              I think Teague is a 1, but he's definitely a scoring 1 right now. I think he should have stayed in school one more year.

                              Anyone planning on playing Curry as a PG is going to end up sorely disappointed. Not his game in the NBA at all. Let him work off the ball where he is the most deadly. Yeah he has some great moves to score with the ball in his hands, but to create for others? I don't know I think the best way for him to benefit his teammates is by creating space and havoc in the overall structure of the opponent's defense.


                              Comment

                              • #1125
                                Re: Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center

                                Originally posted by owl View Post
                                Other than Griffin, Blair is the guy the Pacers need. Some ferociousness would do the
                                Pacers some good on the frontline.
                                Yes, he will bring toughness, but I wish that toughness came packaged in just a little bit bigger body.


                                Comment

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