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Thread: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to being worth his contract?

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    Default In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to being worth his contract?

    I went to see the game tonight (another loss, they are 0-3 when I am in the house this year), and on the way home Kevin Lee made a few interesting remarks. He was commenting how he believed Troy, the way he played this season, was worth the money he was making. Now don't get me wrong, double double guys are rare, and Troy has had a career year, but I would highly disagree Troy is worth the money he is making despite his career year. Troy still has severe limitations in terms of foot speed as well as letting a role player like Verajo have an unbelievable night against him.

    Overall I like Troy. If he was making 8 million dollars per season I would consider it a good investment. I just don't believe he is worth what he is getting paid due to his obvious and severe limitations on the defensive end.

    Lee also discussed that if there was a significant trade Murphy would be a likely candidate to be shipped out. Again, with Murphy's large contract and two years remaining do you really see anyone who would view him as a valuable commodity and be willing to part with something significant in return? I had never thought that highly of Troy, am I off base here?
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 04-14-2009 at 04:31 PM.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Funny, as soon as I got in the car and turned the key... Kevin Lee is introducing Duke Dynamite on the post game "call-in" show and that was the topic he brought up. Interesting how that worked out.

    As for the question... I only see the Pacers wanting to move Murphy if they have a veteran replacement on the way. I don't think it is going to be a guy in this draft that replaces Troy for next season. I don't see Troy going anywhere until next off season.
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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    As for the question... I only see the Pacers wanting to move Murphy if they have a veteran replacement on the way. I don't think it is going to be a guy out of this draft that they are going to be shipping him out for.
    Yep. If you read between the lines, all indications are that we'll try to get tough via trade.

    Murphy has become much more tradeable this year. And that's because he's had a very good year, as predicted by Bird. Being in top 5 in rebounds in the 3 pt %...that's crazy. No other player in the history of the league has done it..

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    No he's not worth his contract. Whatever he gives us on offense gets negated by his terrible defense, and then some.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    I'm just not sure how to answer this. Why does Troy Murphy making 8 million a year vs. Troy making 11 million a year change what he does on the floor one way or the other.

    If you are going to say that his contract is prohibitive because we can not obtain/sign/trade for other players that is one thing. However taken in the context of how much he is worth when not trying to obtain other players is just hard to say.

    Wow that was jumbled and I'm not sure I made sense there.

    Let me just state this.

    Troy Murphy is a little more soft than what I want at one of the inside positions.

    That being said I don't care what Troy Murphy makes a year other than when it comes to what else we can have on the team.

    But if I were going to say is he worth the money? Well he sure has the stats to somewhat back him up wouldn't you say?

    Top three in rebounding and three point field goal %.

    One of the league leaders in double doubles.

    Decent passer.

    But I just never know how to answer these.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I'm just not sure how to answer this. Why does Troy Murphy making 8 million a year vs. Troy making 11 million a year change what he does on the floor one way or the other.

    If you are going to say that his contract is prohibitive because we can not obtain/sign/trade for other players that is one thing. However taken in the context of how much he is worth when not trying to obtain other players is just hard to say.

    Wow that was jumbled and I'm not sure I made sense there.

    Let me just state this.

    Troy Murphy is a little more soft than what I want at one of the inside positions.

    That being said I don't care what Troy Murphy makes a year other than when it comes to what else we can have on the team.

    But if I were going to say is he worth the money? Well he sure has the stats to somewhat back him up wouldn't you say?

    Top three in rebounding and three point field goal %.

    One of the league leaders in double doubles.

    Decent passer.

    But I just never know how to answer these.


    I was asking from a strictly economical point of view. I thought it was an interesting topic brought up in the call in program. Is Troy Murphy worth 11 million per year? The obvious answer is yes, because if he wasn't worth it he wouldn't get it.

    But does his season and the type of player warrant that type of money. You could certainly pull up his statline and argue such IMO, but when you watch the game and look at his limitations they are too severe to justify Murphy for 11 million dollars. Again, it isn't like we can go back and change his contract, but Kevin Lee was claiming Murphy was playing up to his salary, which completely caught me off guard. I will recognize he had a very productive year, but 10-13 million per year is Joe Johnson, Danny Granger, Tony Parker, Brandon Roy, etc. type money. I just don't think Murphy, despite him being a solid player is worth 11 million per year.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Murphy for the past 4 years has consistently been the 2nd/3rd highest paid player (and I guess 2nd/3rd best) on a team that doesn't make the playoffs. That's his performance value relative to his price.

    It is what it is.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I was asking from a strictly economical point of view. I thought it was an interesting topic brought up in the call in program. Is Troy Murphy worth 11 million per year? The obvious answer is yes, because if he wasn't worth it he wouldn't get it.

    But does his season and the type of player warrant that type of money. You could certainly pull up his statline and argue such IMO, but when you watch the game and look at his limitations they are too severe to justify Murphy for 11 million dollars. Again, it isn't like we can go back and change his contract, but Kevin Lee was claiming Murphy was playing up to his salary, which completely caught me off guard. I will recognize he had a very productive year, but 10-13 million per year is Joe Johnson, Danny Granger, Tony Parker, Brandon Roy, etc. type money. I just don't think Murphy, despite him being a solid player is worth 11 million per year.

    Not that I disagree with you but to play devils advocate, which of the players that you listed are in the top three in any catagory this season let alone 2?

    Also I think you misunderstood Kevin. From what I heard him saying he prefaced his thoughts with "you could make the argument". In other words I think he was saying what you and I are saying, stat wise if that is all you based it on you could see him being worth it.

    He went on to talk about the economic climate and how if he were a free agent now vs a differant time.

    I'm not trying to be difficult btw, I just never really know how to answer these types of questions because other than how it affects the team abiltiy to move players around I guess I just don't care or see why anyone does.

    But that's just me.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Not that I disagree with you but to play devils advocate, which of the players that you listed are in the top three in any catagory this season let alone 2?

    Also I think you misunderstood Kevin. From what I heard him saying he prefaced his thoughts with "you could make the argument". In other words I think he was saying what you and I are saying, stat wise if that is all you based it on you could see him being worth it.

    He went on to talk about the economic climate and how if he were a free agent now vs a differant time.

    I'm not trying to be difficult btw, I just never really know how to answer these types of questions because other than how it affects the team abiltiy to move players around I guess I just don't care or see why anyone does.

    But that's just me.



    No sweat peck, not being difficult at all. Maybe I did misunderstand Lee, if so my bad. The way I took him was that he was justifying Murphy's contract. A stat geek would probably look at Murphy's season and be fine with paying him 11 million per year. I mean if Murphy was bad on defense instead of downright horrible I might tend to agree with them. Murphy is a very unique player though not in his skillset, but the peaks and valleys with his strengths and weaknesses IMO. To be worth 11 million IMO he would have to be a tad more well rounded, that is my contention, but I could see where someone might reasonably disagree.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    No sweat peck, not being difficult at all. Maybe I did misunderstand Lee, if so my bad. The way I took him was that he was justifying Murphy's contract. A stat geek would probably look at Murphy's season and be fine with paying him 11 million per year. I mean if Murphy was bad on defense instead of downright horrible I might tend to agree with them. Murphy is a very unique player though not in his skillset, but the peaks and valleys with his strengths and weaknesses IMO. To be worth 11 million IMO he would have to be a tad more well rounded, that is my contention, but I could see where someone might reasonably disagree.
    That's a good description of the Murphy dilemma, if you want to call it that. From a pure stat/fantasy league player standpoint, he's WELL WORTH his contract.

    But from the standpoint of what you want from your PF, he's not really what you need. He's more of a luxury item.

    He'll rack up the rebounds, but doesn't necessarily help you control the boards. The Pacers total rebouding % was 50.0% with Murphy in the game. With Murphy out of the game, it was just marginally worse at 49.8%. Basically, if the Pacers didn't have Troy Murphy on their roster, the drop in their rebounding would be rather marginal.

    Murphy's other strength is that he can shoot the ball for you. That's definitely a plus skill for a PF to have, but this gets negated by his below average ability to finish around the rim or punish smaller players on the low block. Then you factor in his poor defense.

    Most coaches/GMs would rather have the traditional PF who can finish around the rim reasonably well and defend over the PF who just shoots well. And if you already have perimeter players who can shoot (and most good teams do), Murphy's shooting skill turns into a luxury item. At that point, you'd definitely prefer the traditionally skilled PF.

    You are correct. Troy Murphy's skillset among PFs (in terms of strengths/weaknesses) is definitely unique. There isn't another player in the league like him with those contrasting strengths and weaknesses.
    Last edited by d_c; 04-14-2009 at 03:01 AM.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    That's a good description of the Murphy dilemma, if you want to call it that. From a pure stat/fantasy league player standpoint, he's WELL WORTH his contract.

    But from the standpoint of what you want from your PF, he's not really what you need. He's more of a luxury item.

    He'll rack up the rebounds, but doesn't necessarily help you control the boards. The Pacers total rebouding % was 50.0% with Murphy in the game. With Murphy out of the game, it was just marginally worse at 49.8%. Basically, if the Pacers didn't have Troy Murphy on their roster, the drop in their rebounding would be rather marginal.

    Murphy's other strength is that he can shoot the ball for you. That's definitely a plus skill for a PF to have, but this gets negated by his below average ability to finish around the rim or punish smaller players on the low block. Then you factor in his poor defense.

    Most coaches/GMs would rather have the traditional PF who can finish around the rim reasonably well and defend over the PF who just shoots well. And if you already have perimeter players who can shoot (and most good teams do), Murphy's shooting skill turns into a luxury item. At that point, you'd definitely prefer the traditionally skilled PF.

    You are correct. Troy Murphy's skillset among PFs (in terms of strengths/weaknesses) is definitely unique. There isn't another player in the league like him with those contrasting strengths and weaknesses.

    Let me add to that by saying if Troy Murphy were playing power forward while Dwight Howard was the center then this would be a totally differant argument. There would probably not be a single person overly complaining about him. Still some would harp on his defense but my guess is not to many.

    However the problem is we don't have Howard in the middle and unless Roy goes back to Georgetown this summer and learns from Ewing & Zo I don't think we will ever have that type of player next to Murph.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Let me add to that by saying if Troy Murphy were playing power forward while Dwight Howard was the center then this would be a totally differant argument. There would probably not be a single person overly complaining about him. Still some would harp on his defense but my guess is not to many.

    However the problem is we don't have Howard in the middle and unless Roy goes back to Georgetown this summer and learns from Ewing & Zo I don't think we will ever have that type of player next to Murph.
    Same could be said of most any PF in the league. Most any of them would look good next to Howard. Of course there are never more than 2 or 3 Dwight Howards in the league at one time, so in 9 out of 10 cases (at the very least), a PF needs to be a good stand alone player.

    I suppose you could also bring up the question of whether or not Orlando would have Troy in place of Hedo or Rashard, but that's a minor thing. The main point is that with Howard on your team, the name of your PF matters a lot less. In a few years, the best C-PF combo in the league might just be Dwight Howard-anyone else (as it once was with Shaq for some stretch).

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Same could be said of most any PF in the league. Most any of them would look good next to Howard. Of course there are never more than 2 or 3 Dwight Howards in the league at one time, so in 9 out of 10 cases (at the very least), a PF needs to be a good stand alone player.

    I suppose you could also bring up the question of whether or not Orlando would have Troy in place of Hedo or Rashard, but that's a minor thing. The main point is that with Howard on your team, the name of your PF matters a lot less. In a few years, the best C-PF combo in the league might just be Dwight Howard-anyone else (as it once was with Shaq for some stretch).
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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Hm, the Rockets have a fierce front court in Yao/Scola... LA if Bynum is half the hype, Bynum/Gasol.

    Tough to go against Dwight though.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I went to see the game tonight (another loss, they are 0-3 when I am in the house this year), and on the way home Kevin Lee made a few interesting remarks. He was commenting how he believed Troy, the way he played this season, was worth the money he was making. Now don't get me wrong, double double guys are rare, and Troy has had a career year, but I would highly disagree Troy is worth the money he is making despite his career year. Troy still has severe limitations in terms of foot speed as well as letting a role player like Verajo have an unbelievable night against him.

    Overall I like Troy. If he was making 8 million dollars per season I would consider it a good investment. I just don't believe he is worth what he is getting paid due to his obvious and severe limitations on the defensive end.

    Lee also discussed that if there was a significant trade Murphy would be a likely candidate to be shipped out. Again, with Murphy's large contract and two years remaining do you really see anyone who would view him as a valuable commodity and be willing to part with something significant in return? I had never thought that highly of Troy, am I off base here?
    I dont see Murphy going anywhere. The only place that murphy would be effective is on a team that loves to shoot 3`s and has a dominant post player. Therefore, I would think that he would be perfectly situated on a team like Phx, Orlando, or San Antonio. But to be realistic, I dont see anyone taking on Murphy`s huge contract. Hes overly paid plain and simple. He does a good job on the offensive end, but thats only half the game. On the defensive end, hes a liability. Hes a good rebounder, but his foot-works very slow
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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    I don't know if he's worth all of the money, but if the team is ever going to trade him, it HAS to be this offseason. His iron is hot. If TPTB think that Murphy won't duplicate this season's performance, they should find a GM that does. I'm ok with keeping him, though.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Is Troy Murphy worth 11 million per year? The obvious answer is yes, because if he wasn't worth it he wouldn't get it.

    He got his contract from Mullins, as did Dunleavy, and NEITHER ONE was worth it at the time Mullins did it. By unloading both those contracts to the Pacers, Mullins was executive of the year IMO. Both were overpaid with albatross contracts given by what I always felt was a poor GM. He also overpaid Foyle too.

    The same can be said about Cro's contract that Walsh bestowed on him. He was NEVER worth the contract Walsh gave him. IMO JO was overpaid by Walsh as well. JMOAA


    To the question of this thread, I feel more comfortable with what Murphy makes this year with the season he has had. I'd like it to have been around 9 mil with the season he had, but it isn't. One thing no one has mentioned is Troy set a Pacers double double record that had been Clark Kellogg's. Troy had a GREAT season, and hopefully in the offseason he will work hard on his moves to the basket.

    I'll beat on a dead horse, but why doesn't the Pacers hire DD to work with Murphy, Hibbert, and McBob? I think he could have a positive impact on them. I've seen toughness in Murphy and having a little meaness instilled in him by DD could really help him playing PF. Charles Oakley would be another good one to consider. JMOAA

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    I was thinking about Murphy a lot last night while watching the game. Does anyone really believe he is the 3rd best rebounder in the NBA? Does anyone really believe he is the 3rd best three point shooter in the NBA?

    I sure don't on either question. That is not to be critical, but his stats are inflated - they don't indicate his true value to winning. A lot of players are better than their stats, some players are not as good as their stats. Troy is the latter.

    He's had a really good year - but if you saw the game last night and watched closely he was outplayed by Varejao - and that more than Lebron James is why the Pacers lost the game. Again and again Varejao got offensive rebounds over, around, under Troy

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    I'll comment more on this in about an hour...

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    It's a good question and kind of hard to answer. His stats certainly look like he should be a cornerstone to a team, watching him play every game he looks like he should be a more of a role player. Sure he can knock down 3's from the top of the key like free throws, that doesn't make him a top notch shooter in this league. He can't create his own shot, he can't play with his back to the basket, and he can't guard more physical post players.

    Troy has lots of positives too, but the money he is making should be reserved for more complete players. That being said, he's just one of many overpaid players. We took him and duns to get rid of jackson and al. I don't think it was a terrible trade on either end. We got rid of head cases and we took on bad contracts in return.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    It truly amazes me that there are repeated variations on this same theme all year long. Troy's had a career year and there are constant complaints or questioning of his abiltities or contract or whatever.

    I don't understand what he's done to become PD's whipping boy. The guy had a career year and we still can't let up.

    All I know is this. Troy made something like 10 mill this year. Other players at his position making comparable salaries are Brad Miller, Erick Dampier, Tyson Chandler, Biedrins, Al Jefferson, Boozer, Camby, Big Z and Okafor.

    You guys harp on his D, but quite a few players on that list have their shortcomings, too.

    Do I think he's overpaid. No. He's done what we ask of him. The tells him to be a jump shooter, then we fans chastize him for not mixing it up down low. We complained last year that he wasn't getting enough rebounds. This year he ups his boards and we complain HOW he gets his boards. It's weird.

    Gievn what he does for this team, how key his is to our offense and what comparable players are doing for their team, I think he's getting paid just about right. yeah, it would be nice for his salary to be lower, but he brings more than quite a few guys on that list and then when you throw in other players ayt his salary level who do far less like Kirk Hinrich or Richard Hamilton, I don't have a problem with his salary.

    Only Troy could set a record and have that spark a discussion on whether he's earning his keep.

    Weird.
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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    As far as Troy Murphy in particular goes, his performance this season has been magnificent. There's no need to apologise for him. His 7-of-8 3-pointer first half against Utah was one of the NBA highlights of the season.


    But if you ask if he deserves his contract: the whole NBA pay scale is out of whack.

    Many folks believe professional athletes deserve whatever they get, because their talent is what generates interest in the sport and all the business that results from that interest.

    I say OK to that. But if that is so, then the players (not just Tro-phy, but all players) probably deserve less than they are getting. Most teams in the NBA are losing money this season according to reports. That means for certain that most teams are expending money on resources that are not yielding a sufficient return. And considering that player salaries are the biggest item on the budget, it is very likely that those players are getting more than they are worth to their employers.

    Anyway, there's no certain way to prove that even the players on profitable teams deserve what they get paid. The Cavaliers are profitable and LeBron James is getting paid $14.4 million. But it could be that the workers in the ticket booths deserve more than the $11/hour or so they are getting. The janitors or ushers or concession sellers all may deserve more than they get. They all contribute directly to the profitability of the Cavaliers' organization just as LeBron does. Who can prove that the distribution of pay within that organization is fair?
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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Frankly, I believe money is not the issue with Troy. The issue is winning ball games and can you win games at a high enough rate to make the playoffs? I believe the answer is a resounding NO. I like Troy but this mix of players cannot defend. I believe it needs to change
    to obtain more defensive minded players who also can rebound and score a little.
    So if not this offseason then then next is when something will happen.
    On the right team Troy could play a great role, I just don't think the Pacers are the right
    situation.
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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    No he's not, imo. He would be perfect trade fodder honestly, his numbers are better than his value, which a big way another team will gauge his effectiveness. Last night is the epitome of why. Sideshow Bob dominated him for 3 of 4 quarters.

    If the opposing team guards Troy all the way out to the 3 point line they can basically nullify his ability to impact a game. You saw this in a game earlier this year too, when Troy had like 6 - 3's in the first half then the opposing team guarded him out to the 3 in the second half and Troy was a non factor (Edit: I think this was the Utah game that Putnam references above. Also, if you were in a 7 game playoff series, I wonder if the other team's game plan could completely negate Murphy in this same fashion).

    More evidence when Jeff took over for Troy when he was out, Jeff had comparable rebounding numbers to Murphy in most of those games.

    I kept wondering all year, why don't I like Troy's game more, he's tearing it up, his numbers are incredible, he works hard, doesn't cry or pout, he's a perfect fit for Obie's offense, why isn't he like my favorite player?

    My point is this, I am amazed at what Troy has done this year, but his impact is not nearly what his stats show, when the match up is someone like Sideshow Bob because he gets outworked by size/strength/athleticism. Guys like Sideshow really don't have off nights either because what they bring doesn't depend on shooting well or being offensively effective.

    Just my opinion, I suppose if Verajo was the Pacers PF, I'd probably talk about his horrible offense and be wistful for Murphy, who knows.
    Last edited by Speed; 04-14-2009 at 09:18 AM.

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    Default Re: In your opinion, has Murphy played his way to beging worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    No he's not, imo. He would be perfect trade fodder honestly, his numbers are better than his value, which a big way another team will gauge his effectiveness. Last night is the epitome of why. Sideshow Bob dominated him for 3 of 4 quarters.

    If the opposing team guards Troy all the way out to the 3 point line they can basically nullify his ability to impact a game. You saw this in a game earlier this year too, when Troy had like 6 - 3's in the first half then the opposing team guarded him out to the 3 in the second half and Troy was a non factor.

    More evidence when Jeff took over for Troy when he was out, Jeff had comparable rebounding numbers to Murphy in most of those games.

    I kept wondering all year, why don't I like Troy's game more, he's tearing it up, his numbers are incredible, he works hard, doesn't cry or pout, he's a perfect fit for Obie's offense, why isn't he like my favorite player?

    My point is this, I am amazed at what Troy has done this year, but his impact is not nearly what his stats show, when the match up is someone like Sideshow Bob because he gets outworked by size/strength/athleticism. Guys like Sideshow really don't have off nights either because what they bring doesn't depend on shooting well or being offensively effective.

    Just my opinion, I suppose if Verajo was the Pacers PF, I'd probably talk about his horrible offense and be wistful for Murphy, who knows.


    I agree 100%. Need to correct one thing though, when Murph was out Jeff's rebounding numbers were actually higher than Troys. he was 15, 17, 16, 16. Jeff is a better rebounder than Troy.

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