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Thread: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

  1. #1

    Default Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    After the draft and trade, most fans assumed that both Daniels and Rasho's salaries would be off the books for 09-10, so there would be money to sign Granger and Jack w/o going over the LT.

    Now, here is the dilemma. Both have been playing well in the pre-season, and what happens if both continue to play well thus having good seasons? Do the Pacers pick up Daniels 7 mil option for the 09-10 season and re-sign Rasho as well? Or do they let both go for the 15 mil savings in salary?

    Someone is going to say keep Rasho, but sign him cheap. Rasho isn't going to sign cheap as there are always teams willing to pay for a good big man. My belief is Hibbert isn't going to be ready to be a starter next season, so if you let Rasho go who is going to be the Center to go along with Hibbert next season? Foster? Murphy? Who?

    One of the things I found interesting this morning in Hoopshype was that the Pacers have cut staff in a savings mode. Jim Morris said the Pacers had lost money the last few years with this year looking the same. That it would be maybe 3 years before the Pacers would break even, IIRC

    What are your views, ideas, and opinions on the dilemma I have set forth.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    If both are playing well, you try to move them. Preferably for draft picks, but you'd have to find the right team for that, and then they'd have to want them.

    If nothing can be done, then you let them go. Neither is worth Granger, let alone Danny and Jack.

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    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    There's no dilemna. If they are worth more as expiring contracts than as trades, you let them expire and walk away.

    Meanwhile, they are being showcased for midseason moves (again, for draft picks or young players to add to the future core of the team.
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    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    There's no dilemna. If they are worth more as expiring contracts than as trades, you let them expire and walk away.

    Meanwhile, they are being showcased for midseason moves (again, for draft picks or young players to add to the future core of the team.)
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  5. #5

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers View Post
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    If both are playing well, you try to move them. Preferably for draft picks, but you'd have to find the right team for that, and then they'd have to want them.

    If nothing can be done, then you let them go. Neither is worth Granger, let alone Danny and Jack.

    If they are playing well, they would have to be moved b4 the trade deadline in Feb. Since they would be playing well, it would stand to reason they would be an intregal part of the team. Would moving them be worth the disruption of team chemistry and wins for the rest of the season? What if the Pacers are in the playoff hunt with a good chance to make the playoffs with them, would you still move them?

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    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    If they are playing well, they would have to be moved b4 the trade deadline in Feb. Since they would be playing well, it would stand to reason they would be an intregal part of the team. Would moving them be worth the disruption of team chemistry and wins for the rest of the season? What if the Pacers are in the playoff hunt with a good chance to make the playoffs with them, would you still move them?
    No, because if we were to trade them, our books will still be full, for maybe even longer than we were to begin with. There is no harm in clearing room for some quality free agents out there. As recent years have proven, midseason trades really don't put us in the right direction until following that season.

    The bottom line is you keep them as long as you can and let their contracts expire.

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    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    This is not cut and dried. Depends on what kind of trade you can get before trade deadline. What kind of money can Rasho be signed for? Daniels would be more expendable than Rasho because we have so many wing players. Also to be factored in will be Dun's knee.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Meanwhile, they are being showcased for midseason moves (again, for draft picks or young players to add to the future core of the team.

    Yes, there is a dilemma, for you basically have to take back in salary what you trade away. Unless you are taking back expirings, which would be highly unlikely, the Pacers are taking on more salary for the 09-10 season. Thus you won't have the 15 mil to work with from Daniels and Rasho's salary.

    If you trade either one for more than one player, the Pacers will have to cut a guaranteed contract as well. That's lost money to the Simons. The Simons aren't interested in losing anymore money.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyMac View Post
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    This is not cut and dried. Depends on what kind of trade you can get before trade deadline. What kind of money can Rasho be signed for? Daniels would be more expendable than Rasho because we have so many wing players. Also to be factored in will be Dun's knee.
    Good points.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    No, because if we were to trade them, our books will still be full, for maybe even longer than we were to begin with. There is no harm in clearing room for some quality free agents out there. As recent years have proven, midseason trades really don't put us in the right direction until following that season.

    The bottom line is you keep them as long as you can and let their contracts expire.
    I can see that, but who is going to take Rasho's place next season? The Pacers still need a true PF as well.

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    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    If you trade either one for more than one player, the Pacers will have to cut a guaranteed contract as well. That's lost money to the Simons. The Simons aren't interested in losing anymore money.
    I think they made it obvious that they aren't worried about that while they are giving tickets away for free...

  12. #12

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I think they made it obvious that they aren't worried about that while they are giving tickets away for free...

    There is no comparision to giving away tickets that weren't going to be used anyway to people who were not going to buy than eating a players salary. JMOAA

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    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    If Rasho plays very well in JO'Bs system.....then I don't mind trying to resign him to be that 4th Rotational PF/C Big Man that we need....of course, for the right price.

    Same thing for Marquis......but IMHO to a lesser degree. But unless Marquis 3pt shot really improves to the point where makes far more sense then BRush...then I don't see the need to resign him. I would much rather use him as a trading asset as an expiring Contract while using him to help us return to the Playoffs.

    In the end....I don't think that we will resign either of them...but will likely use them as Trading Chips.
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    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    If they are playing well, they would have to be moved b4 the trade deadline in Feb. Since they would be playing well, it would stand to reason they would be an intregal part of the team. Would moving them be worth the disruption of team chemistry and wins for the rest of the season? What if the Pacers are in the playoff hunt with a good chance to make the playoffs with them, would you still move them?
    I would still move them. This is bigger than just making the playoffs this season. I will gladly give up making the playoffs this year for another year in the lottery. If you move the pair at the deadline, you could get a few picks for them. If you move them for players, you are probably lifting a player that would be better than these two.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    I don't think either is in this teams future plans, regardless (or at least virtually regardless) of how well they play this year.

    I'm sure there's a price they have in their head for Rasho that they'd re-sign him at, but the Foster extension probably makes that a pretty low number.

    I don't think they'll pick up the option on Daniels, but they may consider re-signing him at a reduced rate.

    As noted previously, there will be a cost-cutting component to the Pacers future plans, and I'd say that there's less than a 5% chance that they keep either of these guys beyond this year.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Everything we do right now is in following of our 2011 plan, when we have several contracts expiring and when we're legit players in the FA market. We're not going to be players next year, so while picking up Daniels' option wouldn't really make a difference for our future plans, I don't think Herb Simon wants to spend any extra money he doesn't need to.

    I don't believe Rasho will be re-signed, as he'll probably sign on with a contender. Which is fine, since we seem to be focused on building our youth until we make a splash in the FA market in 2011, after which hopefully we'll be in position to be playoffs contenders.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    As far as trades go you must be careful. Last time we traded an expiring contract, Croshere, we got Marquis Daniels in return. I like the idea of it but I don't think it has worked out for the best for us. It wasn't an awful move but if could be done all over again I would at least chose to have let Austin's contract expire as opposed to swaping him for Marquis.

    We will have to see who becomes avaliable as the season goes on. About the only way I vote to trade those two is to get a star. The Lakers did that to get Pau Gasol. I don't think we will have the chance because for one thing I don't think any will be avaliable and I don't think we have enough other assets we would be willing to trade.

    Keep em both, let them expire. Thank them for their time here. Maybe re-sign Rasho if cheap but I would let Marquis walk. It's not hard to find a decent SG/SF in this league.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers View Post
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    If you move the pair at the deadline, you could get a few picks for them. If you move them for players, you are probably lifting a player that would be better than these two.


    Why would any team add 1st round picks for either Daniels or Rasho in a trade when they are having to match salaries with another player/players? I don't see either Rasho or Daniels being good enough to get a 1st round pick back in a trade. JMOAA

  19. #19

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie View Post
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    Keep em both, let them expire. Thank them for their time here. Maybe re-sign Rasho if cheap but I would let Marquis walk. It's not hard to find a decent SG/SF in this league.
    I agree with all but the last part about how easy it is to find a decent SF. Minnie and the Knicks quickly come to mind.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Why would any team add 1st round picks for either Daniels or Rasho in a trade when they are having to match salaries with another player/players? I don't see either Rasho or Daniels being good enough to get a 1st round pick back in a trade. JMOAA
    Easy, if the matching salary is longer and the other team doesn't want the player badly enough, they'll dish out the pick to get rid of him.

    The above doesn't usually happen unless the team REALLY wants to get rid of a salary, i.e. to clear up room to sign a free agent or to avoid the luxury tax.
    Last edited by Doddage; 10-25-2008 at 02:20 PM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Someone is going to say keep Rasho, but sign him cheap. Rasho isn't going to sign cheap as there are always teams willing to pay for a good big man. My belief is Hibbert isn't going to be ready to be a starter next season, so if you let Rasho go who is going to be the Center to go along with Hibbert next season? Foster? Murphy? Who?
    This is a dilemma for you because you don't see Hibbert as being good enough/ready enough to be the starter next season. You are quite possibly in the minority on that view. Regardless it may come down to how much Rasho suits O'Brien's scheme. If O'Brien prefers a jumpshooting 7-footer who prefers being 15 feet away from the basket then Rasho wil be extremely valuable to the Pacers and should be resigned.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Why would any team add 1st round picks for either Daniels or Rasho in a trade when they are having to match salaries with another player/players? I don't see either Rasho or Daniels being good enough to get a 1st round pick back in a trade. JMOAA
    If you are trading with a team that is under the cap and can take the salary, you don't need to have a matching player back.

    Besides, it's just a hypothetical; doubtful it would really happen, but in a league where Marcus Camby can be traded for a 2nd rounder and some Cheetos, anything can happen.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by KennerLeaguer View Post
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    This is a dilemma for you because you don't see Hibbert as being good enough/ready enough to be the starter next season. You are quite possibly in the minority on that view. Regardless it may come down to how much Rasho suits O'Brien's scheme. If O'Brien prefers a jumpshooting 7-footer who prefers being 15 feet away from the basket then Rasho wil be extremely valuable to the Pacers and should be resigned.

    Please go back to the original thread. One of the questions was who would be the player to share the center duties with Hibbert?

    Hibbert hasn't even played a regular game yet this season, and many have him penciled in as starter the 2nd half of the season based on pre-season games. Who will be the center if Hibbert isn't ready to take the starting center position next season?

    You are saying to re-sign Rasho and take away money to sign Granger and Jack?
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 10-25-2008 at 03:58 PM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoddage View Post
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    Easy, if the matching salary is longer and the other team doesn't want the player badly enough, they'll dish out the pick to get rid of him.

    The above doesn't usually happen unless the team REALLY wants to get rid of a salary, i.e. to clear up room to sign a free agent or to avoid the luxury tax.

    Why would the Pacers want to take back a longer contract on a player another team doesn't want to get a 1st pick?

  25. #25

    Default Re: Daniels and Rasho Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Please go back to the original thread. One of the questions was who would be the player to share the center duties with Hibbert?

    Hibbert hasn't even played a regular game yet this season, and many have him penciled in as starter the 2nd half of the season based on pre-season games. Who will be the center if Hibbert isn't ready to take the starting center position next season?

    You are saying to re-sign Rasho and take away money to sign Granger and Jack?
    In my post I quoted your original post which began this thread. In that first post of yours you said it was your belief that Hibbert wouldn't be ready to be the starting center next season. Did I misinterpret you?

    My answer is that if the Pacers' staff feel the same way as you do on this issue, and if O'Brien is more comfortable with a jumpshooting center then by all means they should renew Rasho's contract, especially considering his experience. If that means losing Jack then that's something they're going to have to seriously consider.
    Last edited by KennerLeaguer; 10-25-2008 at 05:11 PM.

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