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Thread: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

  1. #1
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    Four years ago, I called for trading Tinsley, and I got shellacked.

    Today, I am calling for the trade of Danny Granger. You trade when someone's value is high (like when Tinsley's was much higher four years ago). You trade before you make a huge contract extension and lose your chance thereafter (like we did with Tinsley). You trade when you think the piece you get back is more likely to take the team to the next level than staying put.

    We don't know about the last statement. But it's likely we could find someone pretty darn good. Granger is our best trading asset.

    I like Granger. I like his all around ability. I like his commitment to defense. I like, especially, his attitude and character. (That would be the hardest thing to part with.)

    But I don't like Granger as a franchise player. We need one, and I don't think Danny can live up to that. Neither do I think we can get one without trading Danny.

    Personally, I like Dunleavey a lot. There has been much talk about Danny and Dun being redundant at the 3. I would be open to trading Dun instead, but don't think we get as much back.

    I also like Dun better for the same reason I'm not in love with Granger. He just doesn't have dependable offensive skills, IMO. Dun can drive, has a midrange game, a great three, and passes quite well and really has a feel for the game.

    Danny has superior defense. Other than that, he is less impressive to me than Dunleavey. I also think Danny's offense at this point lives and dies with the outside shot. What can he do if that fails him? Not too much.

    As I've said in other posts, I am open to watching Granger improve and add offensive weapons, just as he has added a good three-ball to his arsenal. I'd like to watch that closely along with another key factor: where will the leadership come from this year? If Ford is bringing it, or someone else like Jack, Foster, or even hints of Rush or Hibbert, then I think trading Granger is a no-brainer. But if Granger clearly emerges as our team leader this year, trading him becomes much more iffy.

    But if all the concerns and trends I listed prove true by the trade deadline, I say now is the time to make a move that brings us back really high value . . . BEFORE we lock into something we end up regretting, once again, for many years to come.

    Go Pacers.
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    Member themayhem87's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    no way granger gets traded...i think a dunleavy trade would be much more likely

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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    No. Not only because of his on-court abilities, but because his personality is something we sorely need right now.
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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    Satan has clouded your reason. Step away from the #9 jersey and you will be forgiven.

    In other words ... hwhut?

    I don't see anyone out there we could get for Granger that is as valuable as Granger to this franchise.

    I've never advocated "you gotta trade your best player as soon as he's worth something otherwise you get nothing." When do you keep a good player in hopes of pairing him with another good player? When do you use him?
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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    1...2...3...not it!

    No way no how does Granger wear another team's uniform.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    I'd advocate a trade if it made sense, but there aren't any on the table, nor do I think there would be that would return a "franchise Player" that wasn't some kind of massive risk---I don't think Danny is actually a tradable commodity. Look at what we got for JO, Minny for Garnnet.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    More like rocks in your head, maybe? Your question is, Who would ADVOCATE a trade, which I take to mean go out and start shopping Danny. Sure, if some team called up and said, "Take this healthy, under-paid perennial All-Star power forward who's in his prime and has three years on his contract for Granger" then we ought to consider it. But the idea of shopping him has harmful repercussions for the team and for Danny. I couldn't support that at all.




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    Last edited by Putnam; 10-15-2008 at 04:20 PM.
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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    That would reallly show a lot of brains to trade one of the best players we have. Some people never cease to amaze me.

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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    it isn't about having the stones. it's about being bat**** crazy or not.

    trading tinsley was more of an option because he wasn't the foundation of the team at that time. JO was that rock (regardless of quality, he was supposed to be the rock). tinsley wasn't. right now the pacers are going through a major transition - they're moving on from JO and Tinsley and are desperate to start filling up the seats again. you don't do that by trading away easily the most recognizable and charismatic Pacer on the roster. that's asking for the team to pack it up for seattle.

    give me a realistic "legitimate post threat" we could get back for danny? what options do you see out there that i don't see?

    on a strictly baskeball level, i'm not totally opposed to the idea if it was well-reasoned. right now, however, i'm just not able to envision a scenario that makes any sense given the direction of the franchise (rebuilding effort, franchise popularity, etc).

    i don't think the pacers view danny as a legitimate #1 offensive option. i do think they see him as a worthy face of the franchise because of his talent and his character. he's likeable, smart and young. the pacers SORELY lack talent and i don't think it is a very good idea to trade away arguably the most talented of the group because you don't think he's a perennial all-star.
    Last edited by avoidingtheclowns; 10-15-2008 at 04:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    If we want to trade him when his value is at its highest - then I would wait another year or maybe 2.

    But sure I would trade Danny, if we got the right player in return. I would want an allstar player in return
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 10-15-2008 at 04:14 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    No player is untouchable.

    However Danny is as close to untouchable as we have.

    As U.B. stated, I would be willing to trade Danny if we got something great in return. However I do not want potential or assets, I would want a bonifide star and frankly Danny probably is not going to bring us that this year.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Four years ago, I called for trading Tinsley, and I got shellacked.

    Today, I am calling for the trade of Danny Granger. You trade when someone's value is high (like when Tinsley's was much higher four years ago). You trade before you make a huge contract extension and lose your chance thereafter (like we did with Tinsley). You trade when you think the piece you get back is more likely to take the team to the next level than staying put.

    We don't know about the last statement. But it's likely we could find someone pretty darn good. Granger is our best trading asset.

    I like Granger. I like his all around ability. I like his commitment to defense. I like, especially, his attitude and character. (That would be the hardest thing to part with.)

    But I don't like Granger as a franchise player. We need one, and I don't think Danny can live up to that. Neither do I think we can get one without trading Danny.

    Personally, I like Dunleavey a lot. There has been much talk about Danny and Dun being redundant at the 3. I would be open to trading Dun instead, but don't think we get as much back.

    I also like Dun better for the same reason I'm not in love with Granger. He just doesn't have dependable offensive skills, IMO. Dun can drive, has a midrange game, a great three, and passes quite well and really has a feel for the game.

    Danny has superior defense. Other than that, he is less impressive to me than Dunleavey. I also think Danny's offense at this point lives and dies with the outside shot. What can he do if that fails him? Not too much.

    As I've said in other posts, I am open to watching Granger improve and add offensive weapons, just as he has added a good three-ball to his arsenal. I'd like to watch that closely along with another key factor: where will the leadership come from this year? If Ford is bringing it, or someone else like Jack, Foster, or even hints of Rush or Hibbert, then I think trading Granger is a no-brainer. But if Granger clearly emerges as our team leader this year, trading him becomes much more iffy.

    But if all the concerns and trends I listed prove true by the trade deadline, I say now is the time to make a move that brings us back really high value . . . BEFORE we lock into something we end up regretting, once again, for many years to come.

    Go Pacers.
    I think you're right in that we'd probably have to trade either Mike or Danny in order to improve. I have the feeling Duns stock would rise tremendously over the course of the season and by next summer his contract will be a year shorter and would also seem much more worthy of his skills to other clubs.

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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    Everyone in the NBA can be traded. The results of the trade are what win my advocacy. Danny has become a fantastic NBA ballplayer. But if you have an opportunity to get better, he's as tradable as anyone.
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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    I thought certain Croz24 started this thread. Along the lines of a statement I heard in Batman: Danny may not be the franchise player Indy wants, but he's the franchise player Indy needs right now.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    I don't think that trading Danny will land us a franchise player.

    We can't afford to overpay him when it comes to an extension. However he is worth having on this team in the long run.

    I don't think many see him as a franchise player. Damn good second or third opition though.

    It will just take some time. I think that we really need a big who can score and rebound of course. However we just can't go and trade our most valueable asset.

    We need to draft well and manage the cap. Look what the Blazers and Celtics have done through the draft and look who the 76ers landed when they signed Elton Brand this summer.

    Now we don't have the talent to pull of trades like the Celtics did last summer but it was by good drafting that they were able to do that.

    It will take some time. We fans must be patience. Things will work out in the end if TPTB manages the cap and drafts good.

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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    Several other posters have said it, but I would reiterate that I would trade anyone on the team for the right deal.

    If the total value of a trade is weighed, I don't know that we will get a sufficient offer for Granger at this time.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    I just googled a couple of power forward rankings.

    JO was #7 in one.
    Murphy #19 in two lists.
    Foster #29 in one.

    I guess the pickins are slimmer than I thought.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 10-15-2008 at 05:27 PM.
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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    Trade him for who? Like others have said, there's nobody out there as valuable to us as Danny.

    I'm ok with trading any player if it makes the team better, but it's hard to see a trade involving Danny that would improve us.
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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    Shaq got traded three times. Twice when he was (arguably) the most dominant force the NBA has ever seen.

    I could honestly see us doing a sign and trade for Granger after this season, where I think his value will be at its peak. Send him to a team like Minnesota or Atlanta or New Orleans for a young current player, a first round pick or two and an expiring. See the Joe Johnson trade. I still think Phoenix got the better end of that deal based on what Atlanta paid him plus two future firsts, Boris Diaw and a trade exception. They didn't really utilize their picks or the trade exception however.

    I would expect a deal like that for Granger if we were to pull the trigger. I don't think it would be fair to the franchise if we didn't see what Granger and Rush could do with significant minutes together. We ABSOLUTELY NEED to see what Ford, Rush, Granger and Hibbert can do together this year.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    I don't think any GM that wants to keep his job would trade Danny. Pure suicide. He's put up much bigger numbers each year. What could you possibly hope to gain. A new "knickname"

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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Trade him for who? Like others have said, there's nobody out there as valuable to us as Danny.

    I'm ok with trading any player if it makes the team better, but it's hard to see a trade involving Danny that would improve us.
    I can think of several young players that I would trade Danny for. Thing is, most are not available.

    The TJ Ford deal was a good example on how to get young talent: wait for a team to have two equally qualified players vying for the same spot. The team is looking to relieve the tension of a "time-share" situation and also has needs elsewhere. Get one of those players.

    Unfortunately, I just described the Pacers more than any other team at this point. Since we are the one with several roster horse races going on and we're the ones trying to establish a solid starting 5, we are currently in a position to trade a handful of backups and starters for an established veteran.

    Not really a hard thing to do when a veteran has worn out his welcome eslwhere, but boy does that kind of thing have the power to backfire on the team trading for the star.
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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    Unless Dunleavy "welcomes" his pending sixth-man role when Rush takes over the SG spot, one of our SFs is going to have to go.

    I like Danny. I like Dun. You trade whichever one gets you a better player in return.

    But not this season. And maybe not even next summer. I want to see how Dunleavy does in the sixth-man role.
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    Edge of Reason GO!!!!!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    The Questions would be
    1. Who are you getting in return?
    2. Who would want Granger?

    As far as I am concerned he’s more untradable then Shaq, after the last 4-6 years I’m getting close to being fed up with this team and Granger, Rush, Hibbert are the future and I don’t care about anyone else...

    We are not going to get Paul or Howard back for him and they would be the only sort of guys I’d be interested in.. Ok there All Stars but their character and commitment can’t be questioned (well as far as I am aware, I don’t know any of em personally)

    But as far as this franchise and my commitment is concerned...

    I want to see this team grow... from Rookie to Retirement..

    Reggie Miller, Rik Smits...

    The people this franchise used to represent... i know i could be living in the 90’s and the world changes.. But people, honestly...

    Think about it...

    You want glory, go support the Celtic’s or Lakers.. You want apple pie on a Sunday afternoon after having a shoot around with the family then this is more your team..

    I have never been to Indiana.. Never been to the US and maybe i am ignorant.. But what this team represents in my world, is a laidback mid west county were some of the old time virtues still exist and that’s the way i like it..

    I don’t live in a big city and have no desire to, I am a believer in hard work and growing from within and wether we overpay Danny or not, as far as i am concerned he seems to be a genuine guy and the face of the franchise, do we need a " franchise " player, do we need a marquee selling point, or should we just say TEAM and win...

    If we make the playoffs ever year for the next ten and make the east finals a couple times, I’d be more then happy, if we win the World Championship in 4-5 years when the Celtic’s have fizzled and Lebron is NY and Howard is Playing for the Lakers, then that’s MAGICIAL.. But if we don’t..

    I’ll be disappointed but i love this team for what i believe it represents, not because it’s a Winner or Loser..


    Just my two cents when i should be finishing my Analyse and Evaluate Risks assignment...


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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Unless Dunleavy "welcomes" his pending sixth-man role when Rush takes over the SG spot, one of our SFs is going to have to go.

    I like Danny. I like Dun. You trade whichever one gets you a better player in return.

    But not this season. And maybe not even next summer. I want to see how Dunleavy does in the sixth-man role.
    I think we need to let a little more time pass before Rush becomes a starter...

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    Default Re: Who has the stones to advocate a Granger Trade?

    At this point in time, it probably doesn't make sense to trade him.

    Right now you'd only trade Granger if you got an equally or nearly as talented player at another position.

    Thing is, nobody is going to trade a good PG or PF for Granger, as good as Granger is. If I was the Pacers I'd call Atlanta and offer Granger for Al Horford, but the Hawks would say no simpy because Horford plays a position that is at more of a premium.

    Chances are, what you'll get offered by other teams are just a collection of guys who aren't as good as Granger.

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