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Thread: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    I'm no fan of Larry Bird, but once again Bob has way overstated his case here. To suggest that Shawne was a "horrendous choice" isn't fair - I mean he was the 17th pick - half of those picks are out of the NBA within 5 years - very few ever turn into starters. And none of the players taken after Shawne will ever be star players - or anything close to star players.

    Oh, I love it how he is saying the pacers should have shown a little more patience with him - really Bob - would you have said that after his next incident?



    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart

    October 15, 2008


    Pacers still digging out of '06 draft


    Here is a list of all the players the Indiana Pacers have to show for their fine work in the 2006 NBA draft:

    Well, unless you count 106-year-old Eddie Jones, who was acquired in last week's Shawne Williams trade and seems less enthusiastic about coming to Indianapolis than, say, Mike Tyson.

    The story here isn't Williams, who was a complete bust on and off the court and a horrendous choice for the Pacers at No. 17.

    The story here is team president Larry Bird, who will carry this draft like an albatross until he shows he can turn around this franchise. As much as some of us like what Bird has done this summer, ridding the team of virtually every last remnant of the TrailPacers, that 2006 draft will remain on his record.

    He took Williams at No. 17. And he moved up in the second round to take James White with the first pick in the second round, then gave the kid an unnecessary guaranteed contract, only to see him fail to get out of training camp. "Which," Bird acknowledged the other day, "we knew would look bad."

    The '06 draft qualifies as the biggest swing-and-a-whiff in recent Pacers history. It's the kind of oh-fer a franchise on the rebound can't afford, the kind of miscue that gets team presidents -- even Hoosier legend-turned-team-president -- fired.

    In case you were wondering about players who were chosen after Williams, here you go: Rajon Rondo at No. 21. Marcus Williams at No. 22. Kyle Lowry at No. 24. Jordan Farmar at No. 26. Paul Millsap at No. 47 in the second round. Leon Powe at No. 49 in the second round. And these are just the 2006 draftees who have made their mark within two years of entering the league.

    At this point in the game, it made sense to move Williams, even if it wasn't going to cost the Pacers much to keep him around and wait for the light to go on. The fact is, he wasn't going to play, not with Danny Granger, Mike Dunleavy, Brandon Rush and the rest of the crowd they have at the swingman positions. And he wasn't going to be happy sitting on the bench, especially during the final year of a contract that the Pacers had no intention of extending.

    Instead of losing him for nothing at season's end, the Pacers got next-to-nothing, notably a veteran who doesn't want to be here, two second-rounders (who only matter if they're used well) and some cash. The hope is, the cash will help make the Jamaal Tinsley trade work for the Denver Nuggets; Bird recently said, "That's in Denver's hands right now."

    At first blush, my thought was, why not show a little more patience with Williams? He's only in his third season, which would make him a senior in college. Guys grow up, and some of them even quit hanging around with accused murderers. Heaven knows, Williams has some serious talent, even if he's not quite as good as he thinks he is and doesn't know much about work ethic.

    But you put some things together, and it makes sense. Like the fact he never stopped hanging around the wrong people, even when he was embarrassing the organization. Like the fact he didn't get into the kind of condition the Pacers wanted him in this summer. Like the fact he was often at odds with coach Jim O'Brien about a lack of playing time.

    Bottom line, he wasn't going to become the kind of player Bird thought he saw when Williams was in college for that one year at Memphis.

    The epitaph on the 2006 draft? A disaster.

    "When Scottie Pippen went from being an average young guy to blossoming into Scottie Pippen, he said that everything changed when he first started to think about basketball all the time," O'Brien said. "He said once he thought about how he slept, about nutrition, about what he did in the offseason, that's when he became an excellent player. If people only think about basketball when they come in the locker room and lace them up, that's not enough."

    That, regrettably, was the case with Williams, who wasn't in top shape this camp and only worked out in Indianapolis less than a quarter of the summer, according to O'Brien.

    How could Bird have anticipated that Williams was going to be a less-than-fully-committed draft choice?

    Listen, that's why they pay Bird the big bucks, why some general managers get it and some don't. A personnel man has to know as much about a potential draftee's internal fire as his external talents. Bird and the Pacers missed badly on two picks in 2006, two mistakes that a rebuilding team can't make.

    The 2008 class of Brandon Rush and Roy Hibbert better be the real deal, or Bird will be back on the golf course sooner rather than later.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 10-15-2008 at 08:18 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Hum, this sounds like something that was posted on this forum last week!

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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    I've been saying he was an awful choice since we made it, I think it IS fair. There were 3 legit point guard options there, and 2 of them have proven to be far superior players than Shawn. Bird should have drafted Rondo or Farmar, we'd be better off for it. If Bird had drafted the PG Williams I could see a legit defense, but he drafted a far too young, unproven player who played a position we had no need for. Terrible pick.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Don't get me wrong, Williams as it turns out was the wrong pick. But it isn't like Chris Paul or Deron Williams was available. Rhondo, Williams or Farmar - are not that good

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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    This is recycled garbage. Kravitz really shouldn't be allowed to talk about the Pacers or the NBA in general, it usually seems like he doesn't really know what he's talking about.
    "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Sure, the 2006 draft was botched, but needs to get over it.

    How about some positivity towards the good guys we have now. This is an
    entirely different team going in an entirely different direction than what we
    had going into the 2006 draft.

    Those picks didn't work out, they are not here, that was then, this is now.

    Move on Kravitz....chit happens.

  7. #7
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Kavitz gets two thumbs down from me on this one.

    The first thumb is for speaking out of both sides of his mouth in the same article, and the second is for doing what I think others predicted he would do: Be critical about the Pacers keeping the "bad eggs", and then turn around and be critical of trading the "bad eggs".

    If I had a third thumb, it would be down, too, because I think he's making more out of it than should be.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    kravitz is an idiot. heard him complaining about this monday on the radio. to suggest that the players we "passed on" are anything more than average to decent role players at the moment just shows how little knowledge he possesses about the nba.

  9. #9
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Look, the 2006 draft was a failure by every measure. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out, though it doesn't accomplish much of anything.

    Here's my problem with Kravitz here: He basically sandbagged Bird. Bird's quotes are taken directly from an interview Bird had on Monday...with Kravitz and Eddie. So, Bob sits mute during the interview, swallowing basically all of these criticisms, then trashes Bird in print two days later. I am not impressed by that particular tactic.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I am not impressed by that particular tactic.
    That tactic, indeed.

  11. #11
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Bird likes to needle Bob and that article is just a chance to be vindictive. Not very professional in my opinion.
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by DanGrangerPwrRanger View Post
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    This is recycled garbage. Kravitz really shouldn't be allowed to talk about the Pacers or the NBA in general, it usually seems like he doesn't really know what he's talking about.
    So, you think the Pacers should have kept Williams & White, or what?

    I think he has hit it pretty much on the nose. Maybe he overstated it a bit, but you can hardly call the legacy of that draft a success. Bird himself had spoken about being tired of getting the younger players (high school or very young college players), and wanting players with a bit more maturity or experience.

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Why do we still care about Rondo or Farmar? Ford is a much better PG than either of them.

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Buck, if you'd seen Williams in college, you might have been more inclined to feel it was a horrible pick. But Kravitz is an idiot, so what does it matter.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Kravitz is wrong on several fronts, most of which have been pointed out already. Personally, I don't think Shawne was a bad choice. He had/has more potential than any of the guys drafted after him that Kravitz mentions. I don't think it's fair to slam Bird for his failure to accurately gauge Shawne's poor work ethic.

    As for the James White pick, it didn't work out. I still like that we saw a guy we liked and went after him aggressively.

    If you can find a GM in the NBA that hasn't blown a draft pick in his career, let me know who he is.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    If you can find a GM in the NBA that hasn't blown a draft pick in his career, let me know who he is.
    Kevin Pritchard.
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    Buck, if you'd seen Williams in college, you might have been more inclined to feel it was a horrible pick. But Kravitz is an idiot, so what does it matter.
    Don't need to see him in college, I've seen enough of him in the NBA to know that he has NBA talent for sure and still has a chance to be a really good scorer in the league

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    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    We have "dug out" of the draft in two very obvious ways and for Kravitz not to realize this just shows how ignorant we can be. How did we "dig out?"

    -Most obviously we traded Shawne Williams and in return we basically got back those second round picks we lost in the James White albeit they were from a different team and for different years. But we got back two second round picks. That trade in and of itself basically exorcised that draft.

    - If you want to get a bit more picky though, now we have T.J. Ford who is better than Rondo and much better than Jordan Farmar. Farmar is probably going to be a career backup, though a rather solid one, but I mean if the guy is playing behind someone as remarably average as Derek Fisher how good can he be? And while Rondo is solid, he plays for a hell of a good team, too. Sure, we lost out on a couple of decent point guards, but it's not like we missed Chris Paul and Deron Williams like Atlanta did. I'm still not convinced that either Rondo or Farmar will ever be a long term starter in the NBA. T.J. Ford, however, will.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Look, the 2006 draft was a failure by every measure. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out, though it doesn't accomplish much of anything.

    Here's my problem with Kravitz here: He basically sandbagged Bird. Bird's quotes are taken directly from an interview Bird had on Monday...with Kravitz and Eddie. So, Bob sits mute during the interview, swallowing basically all of these criticisms, then trashes Bird in print two days later. I am not impressed by that particular tactic.
    Exactly my thoughts.

    In fact, Eddie asked Bird in the interview if he thought Kravitz was a "hater."

    "No, not a hater. Just opinionated," Bird said.

    After that olive branch, Kravitz prints this piece of crud.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Member Mr. Sobchak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    It's really easy to play monday morning quarterback.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    I really think Bird made his priority in the 2006 draft, being his first real shot at a draft, talent. White and Williams were both EASILY the most talented guys at that point in the draft. Neither are good basketball players and we know that now. Obviously Bird has wizened up a lot as evidenced by this draft in selecting two, four year guys with great personalities.

    Kravitz has always been an idiot who just looks to stir the pot whenever he gets the chance, instead of actually having a formidable opinion on the Pacers and/or the NBA. He has NO credibility other than he has Larry Bird's phone number and even that I am not sure of.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Kavitz gets two thumbs down from me on this one.

    The first thumb is for speaking out of both sides of his mouth in the same article, and the second is for doing what I think others predicted he would do: Be critical about the Pacers keeping the "bad eggs", and then turn around and be critical of trading the "bad eggs".

    If I had a third thumb, it would be down, too, because I think he's making more out of it than should be.
    Totally agree with this. Kravitz rails about the bad apples we've kept here, then the only one of the whole entire bunch who actually had a murderer for a buddy is the one he complains about us unloading. SJax kicking a disabled guy on the ground pales in comparison.

    And like UncleBuck said, it's not like it was a slam dunk that anyone else would have been any better...or will be. Rondo and Farmar probably look the best of the bunch, but when the entire defense is trying to stop Boston's big 3 or Kobe and friends, you will tend to get a few more open looks.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Oh yeah. Shawne on the Lakers or Celtics is a whole different story. How good would Rondo or Farmar be if they were on the Pacers? Not very good. We would be sending them away to a contender that would make more out of them than we could because we don't have the overall talent level to hide all of their mistakes. We added more usable talent this off-season and hopefully as guys develop the team will get better and will hide the flaws of our young players over the next several years moreso than we have been able to recently.

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    If I had a third thumb, it would be down, too, because I think he's making more out of it than should be.
    If I had a third thumb Krapitz could sit on it.




    Last edited by Major Cold; 10-15-2008 at 11:43 AM.

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    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: Pacers still digging out of '06 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Look, the 2006 draft was a failure by every measure. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out, though it doesn't accomplish much of anything.

    Here's my problem with Kravitz here: He basically sandbagged Bird. Bird's quotes are taken directly from an interview Bird had on Monday...with Kravitz and Eddie. So, Bob sits mute during the interview, swallowing basically all of these criticisms, then trashes Bird in print two days later. I am not impressed by that particular tactic.
    How ironic, I just listened to this inteerview this morning for the first time this morning only to read this column a couple hours later. It's no wonder that Marvin Harrison won't deal with him.

    Also, I found it interesting that Mark Boyle had to "lightly" put Kravitz in check during an interview that was done yesterday. A lot of things that Kravitz does fits his job as "head bomb thrower" and shouldn't come as a suprise. When everyone is down on something, Bob is here to argue that were foolish to be down on something. When everyone is up about something, he is trying to cast that something in a bad light.

    Ie. Lucas Oil Stadium, General sports fans love it, so he comes on the side against it.
    Ie. SJax/Harrington trade, did we not get enough for 'em, ask Kravitz.
    Ie. Pacers are at their lowest PR point, he offers an olive branch
    Ie. Pacers are starting to show gains in interest, Kravitz uses an interview to write this column.

    Bomb Thrower, nothing more! It keeps people irritated which keeps him in a job. Wfan and The Star want you to keep complaining. At least I felt when Bill Benner complained, it came from the heart and not just to "move the neeedle".

    I don't hate Kravitz, but I hate the Star for keeping this guy around when he doesn't know ***** from Shinola about either Racing or Basketball. Our states two biggest passions before the Colts became popular. The only reason they Keep Kravitz around is threads like this one... It gets attn. and that is all the Star wants out of their columnist!
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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