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Thread: 13.9 million expiring

  1. #1
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    Default 13.9 million expiring

    Ok, so i was looking at hoopshype, and seeing Pacers salaries ( http://hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana.htm ). I roughly figured the Pacers have 13.9 million in expiring contracts after this season. This does not include Daniels 7.35m team option, which I would almost guess will not be picked up (atleast I hope not...to much for little production). So when you add that is 22m in expiring contracts.

    The question to everyone here...Are the Pacers lining themselves up for a big time trading team in Febuary? OR, are they going to let the season play out and let all contracts expire and enter Free Agent market for a high profile player?



    IMO....

    The Pacers will trade away some contracts near the deadline in hopes of picking up a couple more 1st round picks. We have never seen the Pacers really hit the Free Agent market for big names. So, I believe Bird is going to try to build this team with young talent and be ready to take over the Pacers when Dunleavy and Murphys contracts expire after 2010/2011 season.

    They are already building nicely with Rush and Hibbert. If they can grab another teams 1st round (or 2), the Pacers could be adding 2-3 first round talents looking toward 2-3 seasons of being a Championship contender.

    Again, just my opionion and was wondering what everyone elses thoughts were on the Pacers situation of expiring contracts.
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Neither. They won't be a big player in the FA market because they won't be far enough under the cap. They won't take on a ton of future contracts because they have too many bad contracts already and don't need more.

    For the most part, they'll let these contracts expire and get some breathing room.
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Does that number include foster's contract? Because he just got extended.
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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Hmmm...I haven't really thought much about what our cap position will be next year.

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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Hmmm...I haven't really thought much about what our cap position will be next year.
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Neither. They won't be a big player in the FA market because they won't be far enough under the cap. They won't take on a ton of future contracts because they have too many bad contracts already and don't need more.

    For the most part, they'll let these contracts expire and get some breathing room.
    Bad contract you must be talking about Dunleavy and Murphy? Which both expire after 2010/11 season. Why would draft picks hurt us? Rush and Hibbert make only 1.4m and 1.7m 1st season, 1.5 and 1.9m 2nd season, and 2.0m and 1.7m in 3rd season. So rookies contracts done seem to be pushing the any kind of cap problems.

    If you can somehow unload Tinsley contract of 6.7m this year for someone elses expiring contract. Then your looking at 25-27m in expiring contracts.
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    We will only be a player in Feb. if we are 10 games over .500 (IMHO) We can use the expiring contracts to bring in help/fill a weakness. If not I expect us to let them expire and use the room to sign Granger and Jack.

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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Whatever money we will save will only go to offset the lowered revenue.
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Quote Originally Posted by aceace View Post
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    We will only be a player in Feb. if we are 10 games over .500 (IMHO) We can use the expiring contracts to bring in help/fill a weakness. If not I expect us to let them expire and use the room to sign Granger and Jack.
    If the expirings can net a first-rounder, I expect them to be moved in January/ February.
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Can we have count do a sticky cap thread and update it as the roster changes?

    That way we can direct this there.

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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Count - assuming we wait to extend Danny and Jack until later next summer, and we do not make anymore moves, how much money will we have next summer to hit FA with before we hit the cap??? Let's also assume we do not get an expiring for tinsley, have a 1st rounder at a starting salary of say 1.5 million, and the cap increases by the same % next summer as it did this summer.

    I'm taking the approach that we use our room under the cap to sign a FA and then go over the cap to resign Danny & Jack. I know they have cap hold numbers though.

    I'm trying to gauge what type of FA we could get.

    Thanks

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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    Count - assuming we wait to extend Danny and Jack until later next summer, and we do not make anymore moves, how much money will we have next summer to hit FA with before we hit the cap??? Let's also assume we do not get an expiring for tinsley, have a 1st rounder at a starting salary of say 1.5 million, and the cap increases by the same % next summer as it did this summer.

    I'm taking the approach that we use our room under the cap to sign a FA and then go over the cap to resign Danny & Jack. I know they have cap hold numbers though.

    I'm trying to gauge what type of FA we could get.


    Thanks
    Lets also assume Jeff was extended for 4.0 million per season

  13. #13
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    Lets also assume Jeff was extended for 4.0 million per season
    Reports are he signed for $12.7m. So most likely he got the standard 10 1/2% raise. That's $6.077,500 and $6.655,000, for a total of $12,732,500.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 10-11-2008 at 07:47 PM.

  14. #14
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    Count - assuming we wait to extend Danny and Jack until later next summer, and we do not make anymore moves, how much money will we have next summer to hit FA with before we hit the cap??? Let's also assume we do not get an expiring for tinsley, have a 1st rounder at a starting salary of say 1.5 million, and the cap increases by the same % next summer as it did this summer.

    I'm taking the approach that we use our room under the cap to sign a FA and then go over the cap to resign Danny & Jack. I know they have cap hold numbers though.

    I'm trying to gauge what type of FA we could get.

    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    Lets also assume Jeff was extended for 4.0 million per season
    Jeff was will probably be about $6.1 next year, per reports, so we'll be around $48 in guaranteed contracts (assuming Tinsley's contract or it's equivalent). In order to retain Danny & JJ's rights, there will be capholds of $7mm and $6mm, respectively. Therefore, if we intend to keep both (as you suggest), we'll still effectively be at $61mm..at or around the cap.

    We basically would be able to sign someone using the MLE, or about $6mm starting salary.

    Quote Originally Posted by intridcold View Post
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    Can we have count do a sticky cap thread and update it as the roster changes?

    That way we can direct this there.
    Let me see what I can do...(I'll put the thread together, but it's somebody else's call on the sticky.)

  15. #15
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    Count - assuming we wait to extend Danny and Jack until later next summer, and we do not make anymore moves, how much money will we have next summer to hit FA with before we hit the cap??? Let's also assume we do not get an expiring for tinsley, have a 1st rounder at a starting salary of say 1.5 million, and the cap increases by the same % next summer as it did this summer.

    I'm taking the approach that we use our room under the cap to sign a FA and then go over the cap to resign Danny & Jack. I know they have cap hold numbers though.

    I'm trying to gauge what type of FA we could get.

    Thanks
    I keep a running spreadsheet of Pacers salaries. My last update was in late June right after the draft and the trades went though. If you can find that all you would need is to make a couple changes.

    EDIT: Duh! I just said I keep a spreadsheet and I tell you to find it when I have a copy! I updated it, but I didn't do the totals.


    Salaries

    Name
    08/09
    09/10
    10/11
    11/12
    Total

    Troy Murphy
    $10,126,984
    $11,047,619
    $11,968,254
    ------------
    Mike Dunleavy
    $9,000,000
    $9,780,992
    $10,561,984
    -------------
    T.J. Ford
    $8,275,000
    $8,775,000
    $8,775,000
    -------------
    R. Nesterovic
    $8,400,000
    -------------
    --------------
    -------------
    Marquis Daniels
    $6,864,200
    $7,354,500
    --------------
    -------------
    Jamaal Tinsley
    $6,750,000
    $7,200,000
    $7,650,000
    -------------
    Jeff Foster
    $5,500,000
    $6,077,500
    $6,655,000
    -------------
    Danny Granger
    $2,329,805
    $3,289,685
    --------------
    -------------
    Jarrett Jack
    $2,002,623
    $2,899,798
    --------------
    -------------
    Maceo Baston

    Eddie Jones
    $2,272,860

    $1,976,400
    -------------

    -------------
    --------------

    --------------
    -------------

    -------------

    Brandon Rush
    $1,799,160
    $1,934,160
    $2,069,040
    $2,956,658
    Travis Diener
    $1,620,000
    $1,740,000
    --------------
    -------------





    Roy Hibbert
    $1,465,440
    $1,575,360
    $1,685,280
    $2,588,590
    Stephen Graham
    $826,269
    --------------
    --------------
    -------------
    Josh McRoberts
    $711,517
    --------------
    --------------
    -------------

    69,241,698
    61,263,794
    45,681,624
    4,692,818

    Team Option
    Player Option
    Qualifying Offer

    The salary figure's come from;
    http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa...ries/index.jsp



    Last edited by Will Galen; 10-11-2008 at 09:05 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    FYI: Sham has some discrepancies with you on Maceo, Rush and Roy. They are minor, but you may want to check the site versus your Excel sheet.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    FYI: Sham has some discrepancies with you on Maceo, Rush and Roy. They are minor, but you may want to check the site versus your Excel sheet.
    I was fixing it when I noticed you had posted. I hadn't been aware they had changed Maceo's, so thank you. And I still don't understand why their rookie figures don't agree with the NBA unions site. Well I had figured that out in June, but I don't remember what it was now. I'll check everything again after the roster is settled.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Could be the new cap figure. Maybe the ones you have are based on last years cap? Or it could be Sham is off...he's good, but not perfect. I'm sure count could help figure things out.
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Everybody who believes that Murphy and Dunleavy's contracts will be allowed to expire by the Pacers raise your hands.

    Looking, looking....

    I see Anthem jumping up and down, remember Anthem I said what the pacers would do not what you wanted them to do.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Here was my problem with the rookie salaries that Sham and ESPN put up. They don't agree with the NBA's Player's Association site. My question was why?

    It's because rookie salary's aren't etched in stone. NBA teams can sign rookies from 80% of, up to 120% of scale.

    It appears NBA teams are mostly signing rookies at 120%, so Sham, and ESPN, just assume all rookies are signed at that amount.

    http://www.nbpa.org/cba_exhibits/exhibitB.php


    2008-09 NBA Rookie Scale ($000Ăs)

    Pick

    1st Year
    Salary

    2nd Year
    Salary

    3rd Year
    Option
    Salary

    4th Year
    Option:
    Percentage
    Increase
    Over 3rd
    Year Salary

    Qualifying
    Offer:
    Percentage
    Increase
    Over 4th
    Year Salary

    1
    4,019.0
    4,320.4
    4,621.8
    26.1%
    30.0%
    2
    3,595.8
    3,865.5
    4,135.2
    26.2%
    30.5%
    3
    3,229.2
    3,471.3
    3,713.5
    26.4%
    31.2%
    4
    2,911.4
    3,129.7
    3,348.1
    26.5%
    31.9%
    5
    2,636.4
    2,834.2
    3,031.9
    26.7%
    32.6%
    6
    2,394.6
    2,574.2
    2,753.8
    26.8%
    33.4%
    7
    2,186.0
    2,349.9
    2,513.9
    27.0%
    34.1%
    8
    2,002.6
    2,152.8
    2,303.0
    27.2%
    34.8%
    9
    1,840.8
    1,978.9
    2,117.0
    27.4%
    35.5%
    10
    1,748.8
    1,879.9
    2,011.1
    27.5%
    36.2%
    11
    1,661.3
    1,785.9
    1,910.5
    32.7%
    36.9%
    12
    1,578.2
    1,696.6
    1,815.0
    37.8%
    37.6%
    13
    1,499.3
    1,611.8
    1,724.2
    42.9%
    38.3%
    14
    1,424.4
    1,531.3
    1,638.1
    48.1%
    39.1%
    15
    1,353.1
    1,454.6
    1,556.1
    53.3%
    39.8%
    16
    1,285.5
    1,381.9
    1,478.3
    53.4%
    40.5%
    17
    1,221.2
    1,312.8
    1,404.4
    53.6%
    41.2%
    18
    1,160.2
    1,247.2
    1,334.2
    53.8%
    41.9%
    19
    1,107.9
    1,191.0
    1,274.1
    54.0%
    42.6%
    20
    1,063.6
    1,143.4
    1,223.2
    54.2%
    43.3%

  21. #21
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    This question comes up every other week.....can we get a Sticky that's titled "It looks like we have Salary Cap space for the 2009-2010 season to sign a FA, but we really don't with all the Cap holds that we have" and then include a link that directs the viewer to the multiple threads that we have had discussing this?
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Everybody who believes that Murphy and Dunleavy's contracts will be allowed to expire by the Pacers raise your hands.

    Looking, looking....

    I see Anthem jumping up and down, remember Anthem I said what the pacers would do not what you wanted them to do.
    I've often wondered if they make moves just to spite me.

    It's too soon to say whether they'll let them expire or trade them first. I think Murph might very well be traded if we could get any value for him, but I expect Dun to end up as a third swingman backing up Granger and (hopefully) Rush.

    But ultimately, I expect both players to be worse this year than they were last year. I expect their play to fall off, which (when combined with their increasing salaries) will make them close to untradable. So I don't expect us to be able to get much for them, which means we're best off letting them expire. But then that's three years out. Who knows.
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    You let it be known that the expirings are available, and if a team is looking to dump a talented player at the trade deadline, and you like said talented player, you make a move for him. If not, you let them expire and work towards future capspace.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    In fairness to Anthem I think the trade or expire question is going to be decided by where the team is at. I don't think the choice is set even a little bit. If they are on the edge of the next step and want to adjust then you move that expiring for the key vet. But if it's more of the same then they are probably going to expire, at least Murphy.

    Right now I'm wondering if Rasho will be let go even. If he plays well enough he might end up with a new deal from the Pacers, something most of us figured wouldn't happen at the time of the trade.

    The key has always just been BREATHING ROOM as already mentioned, and not just here as everyone is pointing out. They just want to be able to have choices back on the board which they haven't for awhile (though that JO deal went better than expected IMO).



    I think most of us are sick of hearing the free agency talk since that's the one area that probably isn't on their agenda in the least, and not just next year either.

  25. #25

    Default Re: 13.9 million expiring

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    Count - assuming we wait to extend Danny and Jack until later next summer, and we do not make anymore moves, how much money will we have next summer to hit FA with before we hit the cap??? Let's also assume we do not get an expiring for tinsley, have a 1st rounder at a starting salary of say 1.5 million, and the cap increases by the same % next summer as it did this summer.

    I'm taking the approach that we use our room under the cap to sign a FA and then go over the cap to resign Danny & Jack. I know they have cap hold numbers though.

    I'm trying to gauge what type of FA we could get.

    Thanks

    Didn't 55 or someone else already do this previously, and show the Pacers would have little money to sign a FA?

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