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Thread: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

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    Default Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2008101011
    Indiana 102, Chicago 95
    Preview - Box Score - Recap

    (0-2)
    1234Total
    Chicago 2022322195 Final
    Indiana 24251934102
    (1-1)
    Chicago
    Starters MinFG3PtFT+/-OffRebAstTOStlBSBAPFPts
    D. Rose G 30:495-91-32-20 2464000513
    K. Hinrich G 25:216-131-40-0+10 1501100113
    A. Gray C 28:135-80-03-6-6 51101202413
    T. Thomas F 30:085-150-05-6+14 31000131415
    L. Deng F 27:272-90-02-4+1 175310246
    Bench MinFG3PtFT+/-OffRebAstTOStlBSBAPFPts
    L. Hughes 33:315-150-33-3-10 0314000413
    T. Sefolosha 23:555-92-41-1-13 1541200513
    D. Nichols 12:000-30-20-0-13 011002020
    D. Washington 11:421-30-10-0-14 001210042
    E. Brown 6:582-20-01-2-3 020000015
    A. Nocioni 6:071-30-10-0-3 020200002
    C. Simmons 3:480-20-00-0+2 000000110
    D. Gooden DNP - Coach's Decision
    B. Gordon DNP - Coach's Decision
    J. Noah DNP - Coach's Decision
    R. Powell DNP - Coach's Decision
    Totals37-914-1817-2413501818856095
    Percentages: .407.222.708 Team Rebounds: 10
    Indiana
    Starters MinFG3PtFT+/-OffRebAstTOStlBSBAPFPts
    J. Jack G 31:103-70-14-5+15 0641101110
    M. Daniels G 24:295-100-13-4+2 0230200113
    R. Nesterovic C 15:484-70-00-0-5 011211038
    A. Croshere F 21:350-30-22-4-10 250000042
    D. Granger F 15:261-60-23-4+5 022111015
    Bench MinFG3PtFT+/-OffRebAstTOStlBSBAPFPts
    B. Rush 27:177-91-13-6+7 1412200018
    T.J. Ford 26:556-140-16-9-5 0553002318
    S. Graham 18:421-20-00-0-3 040210012
    J. Foster 16:111-20-02-4+11 141102034
    R. Hibbert 16:014-90-01-3+1 162311149
    J. McRoberts 15:123-60-10-0+8 131001116
    J. Davis 11:132-41-32-2+9 140000027
    M. Baston DNP - Coach's Decision
    T. Diener DNP - Coach's Decision
    M. Dunleavy DNP - Coach's Decision
    T. Murphy DNP - Coach's Decision
    J. Tinsley DNP - Coach's Decision
    Totals37-792-1226-4174620159650102
    Percentages: .468.167.634 Team Rebounds: 11
    Game Info
    Technical Fouls: Chicago - E. Brown 1
    Arena: Allen County War Memorial Coliseum, Fort Wayne, IN
    Attendance: 9,105
    Officials: Bob Delaney, Kane Fitzgerald, Luis Grillo
    Legend

    +/-:
    Team net points while player is in game,
    TO:
    Turnovers,
    PF:
    Personal Fouls,
    BS:
    Blocked Shots,
    BA:
    Blocks Against


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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    General Thoughts:

    Nice to see us win a game where we don't shoot the 3 well and leave a ton of points on the floor by missing free throws.

    If Troy Murphy misses time this year, we cannot let Croshere be our starting PF. Our rebounding was awful when he and Rasho were in the game together.

    I think we'll be a better team than the Bulls this year.

    The Ford-Jack-Daniels lineup that O'Brien used for most of the 3rd quarter was awful. I hope we never see it again. Interestingly, when Daniels was replaced by Rush, it got much better.

    Players:

    Jack: He had a much better game at the point. He seemed less rushed and wasn't facing the kind of ball-pressure he was against NO. He had a solid all-around game. His outside shot doesn't look good, but I think it's better than we've seen so far.

    Ford: Another solid game from TJ. He was forced to carry the offense during the 3rd quarter and did so fairly well. Once our guys start making shots I expect his assist numbers to jump.

    Daniels: Had a very good offensive game in the first half. He was very active without the ball and finished well. His defense on Hinrich in the first quarter was bad. His outside shot is still not trustworthy.

    Rasho: I love his jumpshot and his passing. He really needs to rebound better though.

    Granger: I don't know what to say. He looks terrible right now.

    Croshere: I don't see a spot in the rotation for him. He's not shooting well or doing much else. If Troy misses time this year, we really need to start Jeff at PF.

    McRoberts: He had another solid but not spectacular game. He's a skilled player who's a very good fit at PF in O'Brien's system. Scoring seems to be his weakness at this point. He needs to develop a couple post moves and a consistent jump shot. If he can do that, he'll be an effective NBA player for a long time.

    Hibbert: I thought Roy looked very solid. His passing was good. He's got a decent jump shot and a nice jump hook. I hope his bad FT shooting was just an anomaly. He still obviously needs to get stronger and in better shape. All in all, I think he's ready to give us about 10 minutes a game in a rotation where Jeff, Troy, and Rasho get the majority of the minutes at the 4 and 5 spots.

    Rush: He was the most impressive player tonight. His jumpshot looks effortless. He's much more effective at attacking the basket than I thought he was. I was especially impressed by his ability to finish with both hands and to drive to his left. Also, he was doing most of his good work with Sefolosha guarding him. I love his efficiency.
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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Overall Impressions:

    TJ Ford - Fast, fast, fast. However, I counted at least 5 times that he got to the rim and wasn't able to finish...perhaps more.

    Jarrett Jack - Very nice bounce back game for him. Though it's more minutes than I expect him to play in the regular season (31), that was the level of performance I had been hoping to get from him. I'm still hoping for that "Travis-Best-as-backup-to-Mark" type player. A guy you're pleased to have most of the time, who occasionally makes you thrilled, and (hopefully) less occasionally makes you cringe.

    Roy Hibbert - Mentioned above, I really think he looks like he's in a lot better shape than he appeared to be in college. However, the thing that struck me was "smart". He made two beautiful assists to cutters for layups, and a really sweet jump hook. I'll be interested to see how well he's able to get post position against frontline defenders, though. If last night was any indication, I'm more readily able to see him developing into an NBA starter down the road.

    Rasho - Nice jumper...makes Hibbert look fleet.

    Austin - Same old Austin...love the guy, but I can't remember anybody other than George McCloud capable of being colder from the field. I'm pulling for him, but I still haven't seen anything that would make me cut a guaranteed contract for him.

    Josh Davis - We know he's gone, but he hit a couple of shots...However, I can't help but think that Davis's a copy of McBob, who's a copy of Croshere, who's a copy of Murphy...and we all know about the quality of a copy of a copy of a copy. Also, if there's any question about his status in the NBA, check out the ESPN Box Score, where he was listed as "John Davis". (Or, the fact that I just had to edit this entire paragraph, because I kept calling him "Reed" instead of "Davis".)

    McBob - Nothing spectacular, but at this point, I wouldn't have any heartburn over him making the team.

    Stephen Graham - I like the guy well enough, but he's in trouble. With DG, Junior, Daniels, Rush, and Jack, there are just too many bodies that can play where he plays ahead of him.

    Brandon Rush - All I could think about as I watched the second half was T-Bird's Pre-Draft Analysis. Beautiful job of running off screens, I love the curl play, and his jumper was feather soft last night. I am hopeful that we are able to get him in the rotation and get him looks like that on a regular basis. However, I also remember, and share, T-Bird's concern about fit here. It's not like I don't think he can be productive, it's just that he might not flourish in JOB's system the way he could if he could perform in a Reggie Miller/Rip Hamilton type offense. He shows signs that he would be most successful in that type of system.

    Marquis Daniels - Marquis is what he is. He's a decent rotational player who can create his own shot. There are a lot of teams he can help, but I'm not sure the Pacers are one of them.

    Danny Granger - Talk to me at the end of preseason if he still hasn't found his shot. Even then might be too soon to break out into a cold sweat.

    All in all, it was a nice bounce back game, but Chicago is a vastly inferior opponent to New Orleans. However, it gave me what I want to see in a preseason game: signs of improvement from the previous game(s).

    One last thing, though:

    About that free throw shooting....

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    JJ leads in rebounding again. (Tied w/Hibbert at 6). Ford chips in 5. It's just going to be nice to get all around production from outrPGs-including energy and enthusiasm-compared to the JT era.

    The inside personnel could get a little scary at times. We'll see. Basic interior strength and rebounding will be challenged.

    I may not have seen a good representative sample, but I thought Graham's defense was shaky. Agree that Croshere is completely unimpressive so far, and that's without unreasonable expectations to begin with.
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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Here's a good wrap up from Indy Cornrows at Pacers.com.

    http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5800011706

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    I did watch this game. And I agree Cro and Rasho together was horrible - terrible rebounding and the interior defense let a lot to be desired.

    I was impressd by both Rush and Roy. Neither seem like rookies both are prety smart players.

    sorry, have to go, maybe I'll post more later

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Brandon Rush - ....and his jumper was feather soft last night.....
    The last time I saw a jump shot I liked as much, and described the same way as you have here, was when Randy Wittman was at IU. Very smooth shot.
    Last edited by Tom White; 10-11-2008 at 11:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    I'll just throw a couple of quick thoughts here on the game.

    1. If our backup point guard continues to lead us in rebounding I am going to be on suicide watch. While I certainly appreciate Jacks tenacity for gathering rebounds the fact that our centers and forwards have yet to grab double figures in boards is driving me crazy. Yes, I know pre-season. I keep telling myself that.....

    2. While Croshere and Nesterovic was not the greatest combo last night I want to say that I actually like Rasho. He has a solid all around game and has legitimate size. He is not afraid to use his body for defense and having someone who can score at that position is certainly a welcome change. He seems well suited to run the type of offense that we are running (whatever that is).

    3. Here is my shocker of the day. If I were picking today, based on what I've seen, I would keep McRoberts over Croshere. Don't get me wrong I have always liked Austin and right now he is rebounding well. His shot is falling at present but I'm not that worried about it, he has always been streaky. But I think McRoberts is a differant kind of player. God help me for saying this but he is a little more like Foster with the abiltiy to score and play more physical. However it's just two games & I am under the impression that Croshere already has a place at the table.

    4. To quote the late great Hawk. Oh whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaataaaaaaaaaaaaaa Rush.
    Brandon looked like a 5 year vet on the floor. Something clicked on and he was everywhere on the floor. If he can give us 1/3 of that during the season I will be thrilled.

    5. Roy looked pretty good as well. But rebound the GD BALL!!!!!!! He actually had a good number of boards but he could clean up the rim if he would just agressively attack it. However this is what I was warned of about him so I have to remember that he is not going to be able to be judged by the boards he brings in in a game. Offensively he is already very gifted. His passing ability is uncanny for someone his age and size. Once he develops a go to move he will be a real hand full for defenders.

    6. I'm trying guys, really I am. But O'Briens offense is just killing me.

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    There was a lot of hype when Kareem Rush entered the league. It appears to me that Brandon is the one that will live up to it, yet there is less hype around him.

    The way Brandon plays is a thing of beauty. I've yet to see a glaring weakness in his game. Maybe someone can point one out.

    I like his ability to convert on the drive. He is better than Danny Granger at the same stage in Danny's career. Much more aggressive and assertive. Better defensively. Better shooter. Am I overstating this?

    Just one game...

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    As far as the Hibbert Rebounding comments go. He gave us a solid 6 rebounds in 16 min of being on the floor. That to me is a sign of a 15 and 10 player once he starts to get 25 min a game and he is just a ROOKIE!

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    so can anyone say derrick rose looked better than rush last night? I cannot wait to pair him with another basketball smart player in MDJ who has the ability to make more shots for him.

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    I also agree that I'd take McRoberts over Croshere right now. McRoberts seems like he could be Jeff Foster's eventual replacement.

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The way Brandon plays is a thing of beauty. I've yet to see a glaring weakness in his game.

    He is better than Danny Granger at the same stage in Danny's career. Much more aggressive and assertive. Better defensively. Better shooter. Am I overstating this?

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    Rush: He was the most impressive player tonight. His jumpshot looks effortless. He's much more effective at attacking the basket than I thought he was. I was especially impressed by his ability to finish with both hands and to drive to his left. Also, he was doing most of his good work with Sefolosha guarding him. I love his efficiency.
    Rush's biggest weakness is dribbling and going to the basket. He's much better going to his left for some reason. That dribble drive from the left wing is his best drive; we've seen it in the game and in that practice video.

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The way Brandon plays is a thing of beauty. I've yet to see a glaring weakness in his game. Maybe someone can point one out.

    I like his ability to convert on the drive. He is better than Danny Granger at the same stage in Danny's career. Much more aggressive and assertive. Better defensively. Better shooter. Am I overstating this?
    I think he's a very solid looking player.

    The only things I would point out:
    1. He's 23 already (older than Granger as a rookie), so kind of old for a rookie in this day in age. Just saying that a player of that age you should expect to be refined and polished.

    2. He needs to work on his ballhandling to be a fulltime SG.

    Otherwise, he looks like a player to me. Also, there wasn't much hype about Kareem Rush coming into the league. He dropped into the 20s in the 2002 draft, IIRC where as Brandon was a lottery pick so Brandon is obviously the guy with more hype and expectations.
    Last edited by d_c; 10-11-2008 at 03:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    After watching these last 2 games, I think Cro may want to think starting his coaching career. I love Austin as a person and that he always gives 100%. But, you can see he has lost a step and his jumping is really taken a hit.

    Austin mention he wants to be with the Pacers after basketball, imo maybe its a good time to start. I dont know where he would help this team, other than vetran presence. But, we have Foster, Dunleavy, Murphy, and a few others on this young team that can give the Pacers that.


    As for Rush, Hibbert, and TJ Ford....LOVE EM. I can see where these guys are going to work well with each other. Hibbert looks like he has what it takes, but of course he is a rookie. His passing is really nice. He alters shots in the paint and has the body to control the rim. I am really excited of our 2 rookies future and what they can become. Ford, LOVE HIS SPEED! Witha PG that has speed like that, watch for defenses to collapes and leaving a wideopen shot or dunk. Rush, what can i say! SMOOTH!

    JJ....he seems to shine and then the light flickers out with stupid turnovers. Again, it is early so we will see. But, i do like him out there better than fumble fingers Graham.

    Rasho...just solid. As Dunleavy said in broadcast, nothing amazing. But, just a good solid basketball player.

    Daniels...he does things that seem weird, but also seem to work.

    McRoberts...I personally think he should make the roster. It seems like slowly but surely this offense will really benefit him. I think once it clicks, he will be able to produce some small solid minutes off bench.

    Granger...it looks like Danny of last year. He started REALLY slow in preseason and then just took off in the season.



    I am really excited about this team. I can wait to see Ford, Dunleavy, Granger, Rush, and Hibbert on the court. I know not all at once probably, but Rush needs to be on the court with Ford IMO.
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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    6. I'm trying guys, really I am. But O'Briens offense is just killing me.
    This accurately conveys my sentiment.

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I also agree that I'd take McRoberts over Croshere right now. McRoberts seems like he could be Jeff Foster's eventual replacement.
    i gotta agree with that too. if i have to choose who do i want on this team- mcbob or cro?
    definitely mcbob. although i get this bad feeling that cro is getting a spot on this team no matter what because he is so liked. got nothing against austin but, if his shot isn't falling, he is of very little use. the best you can hope for then is possibly a solid job on the boards and he at least did that.

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    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Could a new avatar be in your future?
    Hey, stop reading my mind. Yes, that has crossed my mind over the last 10-20 hours. I don't know how good Brandon is going to be, but he reminded me last night of another Kansas guy who plays for the Celtics. I did not see any Kareem in his game...

    BTW, don't tell Danny...

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Hard to believe we went from having such a slow, boring point guard rotation to having the fastest player in the league. T.J. can go for 20+ or drop double-figures in assists on any night. Hollinger has him ranked as the 5th most productive point guard in the league, and if he gets enough minutes, he's an All-Star.

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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Quis View Post
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    Hard to believe we went from having such a slow, boring point guard rotation to having the fastest player in the league. T.J. can go for 20+ or drop double-figures in assists on any night. Hollinger has him ranked as the 5th most productive point guard in the league, and if he gets enough minutes, he's an All-Star.
    TJ is not in the upper echelon of PG's (e.g. CP3, Deron, Nash) but he is just one notch below...about where "good Jamaal" is. Fortunately, I don't think he has Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde syndrome like JT. If he stays healthy, he will be the best floor general since Mark Jackson.

    It's becoming clear we got a very good return on the JO trade. I am glad we did not acquire Lamar Odom and filler. We are much better off with Rasho, Ford and Hibbert...and the salary cut. Very good work.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    6. I'm trying guys, really I am. But O'Briens offense is just killing me.
    I'm glad you said it. There were way too many times where we had almost everyone standing on the perimeter, with ONE guy on the post. Then we alternate from running a single screen, or we run a very obvious double screen that's not too effective because there's no other motion on the floor to draw attention away from the screens.

    I know, I know, O'Brien runs a system that DE-emphacizes post play, but I just don't know if I'm comfortable with that.

    As much as I want to be optimistic, I've got more than a little bit of concern over what we're trying to do. It seems to be based on penetration and maybe that's where the bloated G rebounding stats are coming from, but this offense feels.....soft. I feel like he's running an offense based upon the player breaking down his defender and I don't know if that fits this team.

    Now this is just me, but I think success, championship type success, comes from strong post play and the offense isn't designed that way.

    I dunno. I feel like we're kinda wasting our time on a variant of the old Suns offense. For me, it just doesn't feel right.
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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech View Post
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    Now this is just me, but I think success, championship type success, comes from strong post play and the offense isn't designed that way.
    If O'Brien tried to run an offense based on strong post play with th eplayers on the current roster he'd be an idiot. I love to see good low post play as much as anybody, but our best low post scorer is a rookie who'll likely not play more than 15 minutes a game this season. We just don't have the players to play the style you want.
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    Default Re: Pacers v. Bulls - Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech View Post
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    Now this is just me, but I think success, championship type success, comes from strong post play and the offense isn't designed that way.
    If O'Brien tried to run an offense based on strong post play with th eplayers on the current roster he'd be an idiot. I love to see good low post play as much as anybody, but our best low post scorer is a rookie who'll likely not play more than 15 minutes a game this season. We just don't have the players to play the style you want.
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