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Thread: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

  1. #101

    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    Shawne is going to be our best scorer off the bench this season

    OMG! Wow just WOW!

    You might want to re-think that statement. You might want to seriously revise it!

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Hoopshype keeps chugging along with updates. Says (big surprise) that the Nugz are simply holding out for more cash and compensation. This was not very specific in details.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=10178

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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Hoopshype keeps chugging along with updates. Says (big surprise) that the Nugz are simply holding out for more cash and compensation. This was not very specific in details.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=10178
    The speculation from the writer of the article from Hoopsworld ( I know...it's Hoopsworld ) is that the deal on the table involves getting a protected Draft pick ( I presume a 1st ) and Cash Considerations.

    Although it is speculation.....I would include Cash considerations ( since we would still be on the hook for $21 mil even if we kept him ) to balence out the $$$ owed for Tinsley's contract....but not any 1st round pick.

    I would hope that IF the deal involve SIMPLY cash considerations and that it's up to the Simons to approve it....that they pull the trigger....which is one of the reasons why I think that the Nuggets are holding out for a 1st rounder. Any sweetner less then a 1st rounder, Rush/Hibbert or taking on additional Contracts...IMHO is reasonable.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    It'd better be heavily protected. Even then I'm uneasy.

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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    anything more then a cash considerations...they can jump in a cold lake of Coors, as far as I'm concerned.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    It'd better be heavily protected. Even then I'm uneasy.
    I'm not even giong to go that far......the farthest that I would go with anything related to a 1st rounder is the right to swap the picks.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  7. #107
    Edge of Reason GO!!!!!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    hmmmm as the days go on... i fear it won't happen.. no links, no stats.. just a feeling...

    I diden't like it much from the start n don't see a real need for the Nugs to do it...

    I stand to be corrected tho..


    Ya Think Ya Used Enough Dynamite there Butch...


  8. #108

    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Three or four months from now when some elite PG go down and that team's season is in jeopardy, JT's contract won't look so bad. Either wait for this to happen or buy him out at the lowest cost possible. No reason to be concerned about him if he is not in the buidling. When the season starts no one will be thinking or preoccupied by him.

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Denver's getting greedy if they want a pick.

  10. #110

    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Three or four months from now when some elite PG go down and that team's season is in jeopardy, JT's contract won't look so bad.
    Totally agree.

    I hear Marbury can be available to Denver for 22 mil, and he's an expiring. Oh yeah, Denver can't afford him. They can afford Tinsley. If Tinsley plays well and plays 70+ games this year, Denver can always trade him next year when his contract is only for 2 years. There is no written rule that says they have to keep him until his contract expires. AI's contract expires after this season, so they need to make their move this season while they can. W/o a quality PG, Denver is going no place this year, and how happy is Melo going to be then?

  11. #111

    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    If Bird throws in a first or even the right to swap picks it is a big risk and not worth it. You might as well just buyout Jamaal at that point.

    This team is in no situation to trade away a first round draft pick. At least not to deal one without getting back a good player.

    When we traded our draft pick for Al Harrington that wasn't bad. If you know you have a pretty good core and you trade your pick to get a solid player then I am ok with it. But when your team is unproven and at best an average team and you just give your pick away to dump a contract it's not a wise move, IMO.

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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    To the contrary of a lot of you, I believe the team is just going to sit on Jamaal before they give up the store just to move him. Any type of horseing with the draft pick is...well, giving up the store.

    Personally, as long as Jamaal stays in the ATL, I don't think he is a risk. IMHO, I think the fear of him getting in trouble down there to the point it will get back up here is a little overstated. As mentioned before... as soon as these new guys start making plays on the court... Jamaal will just be a bad memory until he is traded amoung the casuals. Between 3 other Major league franchises and 2 Major colleges of their own, Jamaal wouldn't even raise an eyebrow with stuff like 8 secs.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Well according to the New York Post the trade has hit a snag. They are saying it all hinges on 3 million in cash from the Simon's. If the Simon's don't get this done, I think they are making a mistake. I do agree with speakout and gnome as well though. Eventually there will be a better offer. The operative word being eventually.
    "No one else can see the preservation of the martyr in me" -- Corey Taylor

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/10072008...470.htm?page=2

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Vecsey
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    Jamaal Tinsley trade is on hold while the Pacers and Nuggets argue over money. Denver demands $3 million to defray one-seventh of the locked-out point guard's 3-year obligation.
    Well, if this falls apart because the Simons are unwilling to give the $3mm cash, that's amazingly short-sighted. Even paying out the cash, they're saving $5-7mm (depending on what they do with Atkins next year).

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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Yes, they need to bite the bullet here. I know it's their money, but the way I see it they're getting something for that money.

    A) The chance to be rid of Jamaal Tinsley

    B) Steven Hunter

    C) Chucky Atkins

    D) Even if both are not cracking this rotation, they're both more tradeable and collectively cost less money.

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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    http://www.nypost.com/seven/10072008...470.htm?page=2



    Well, if this falls apart because the Simons are unwilling to give the $3mm cash, that's amazingly short-sighted. Even paying out the cash, they're saving $5-7mm (depending on what they do with Atkins next year).
    Maybe they havent thrown the idea out the door yet. Maybe they have Jamaal on the phone right now. I can hear the conversation.

    Jamaal: Hello
    Simons: Hey Jamaal, Mel and Herb here. How's the weather in the ATL today?
    Jamaal: Its great, how about Indy?
    Simons: Its great, hey do you like to play basketball?
    Jamaal: I love bball, its my true love. Why wont you guys let me play?
    Simons: Well frankly you dont fit in my coach and GM's plans and we already have 4 other point guards, but ive got a deal on the table that I can get you to play with AI and Melo. They need a PG you know.
    Jamaal: No kidding! I love those guys. they play my style of bball.
    Simons: well the kicker is the nugs gm wants $3M also, and frankly, we only have $1M left in our bank account. We were wondering if you could cover the other 2, that is if you want to play bball this year.
    Jamaal: OK!

    Serious note / question: If we sit Jamaal all year, does he count against the roster? I know he counts against the cap, but if he counts as a roster spot, we have to cut 3 players (including josh davis)?

  17. #117

    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Let's just give them the damn money. It's not like we're going to get offers for Jamaal like this without giving up better assets. It is well worth it for JT to be off the roster and to a lesser extent, make the most out of a ~7 million investment.

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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    I'd say, what counts against the cap, counts against the roster, but who am I?

    Not a bad idea, letting Jamaal cover part of the cash
    Word on the street is he doesn't want your money, he only wants to please your ears...
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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Couldn't they dig deep into Home Court inventory and raise the price of 300,000 individual units of Pacer merchandise by $10 at the Home Court Gift Shops?

    Have fun with it. Call it the Tinsley Counter-Sale.

  20. #120
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBaby33 View Post
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    Serious note / question: If we sit Jamaal all year, does he count against the roster? I know he counts against the cap, but if he counts as a roster spot, we have to cut 3 players (including josh davis)?
    If we sit JT all year, he will count as one of our roster spots. Keeping Jamaal effectively means we'll only have 14 roster spots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
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    I'd say, what counts against the cap, counts against the roster, but who am I?
    While this is generally correct, it is not true 100% of the time. Players with guaranteed contracts who retire, are cut, or are bought out will still count against the cap, but will not be on the roster. The most recent example of this for the Pacers was James White, who was on the Pacer payroll (and cap figure) for the past two years despite being cut.

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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    we need to have a fund raiser....the fans wanted him out..well nows the time to pay up lol
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Wells confirms that it is all about the money now. In his blog today

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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    I'd chip in $30. Are there 100,000 other Pacers fans that would do the same?

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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    If we sit JT all year, he will count as one of our roster spots. Keeping Jamaal effectively means we'll only have 14 roster spots.

    While this is generally correct, it is not true 100% of the time. Players with guaranteed contracts who retire, are cut, or are bought out will still count against the cap, but will not be on the roster. The most recent example of this for the Pacers was James White, who was on the Pacer payroll (and cap figure) for the past two years despite being cut.
    In that case, let me rephrase to: what sits and counts against the cap, counts against the roster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I'd chip in $30. Are there 100,000 other Pacers fans that would do the same?
    Word on the street is he doesn't want your money, he only wants to please your ears...
    Bum in Berlin on Myspace

  25. #125
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star: Tinsley to Nuggets? Possibly Monday

    Look, I know $3 million is a lot of money, but, if the deal is as reported then we're talking about this math:

    2008-2009: $10,103 (Atkins, Hunter, $3mm) less $6,750 (Jamaal)= $3,353 more payout for Pacers (only $353 increase in payroll)

    2009-2010: $7,176 (Atkins full salary, Hunter) less $7,200 (Jamaal) = ($24) less payout for Pacers. (If they release Atkins, as I expect they would, then his salary drops from $3,480 to $760, meaning the Pacers save an additional $2,720, for $2,744 total.)

    2010-2011: $0 (Hunter, Atkins expired) less $7,650 (Jamaal)= ($7,650) less payout for the Pacers.

    So, worst case scenario is $3,353-$24-$7650 = ($4,321) savings for Pacers. That would be right at the edge of making sense from an NPV perspective. However, the Pacers have full control over the second year of Atkins, meaning that the sound scenario is $3,353-$2,724-$7,650 = ($7,021) in savings. Rough math says that's a 25% return on the $3,000 outlay.

    The Simons successfully held out in the Atlanta negotiations because Atlanta had no other options. I think the roles are reversed here, and I would become seriously concerned about the fiscal stability and commitment of Pacers ownership if they aren't willing to make a "cost savings capital investment" that has this kind of guaranteed return.

    In other words, I hope we're really not getting an accurate picture of the hold up here, because I have a hard time seeing this "truth" being a good sign.
    Last edited by count55; 10-07-2008 at 09:39 AM.

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