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Thread: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

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    Default Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Based on talk out of Indiana and New York, the Heat soon could be facing two decisions in its convoluted situation at point guard.



    With Indiana's Jamaal Tinsley, the situation is pretty basic. If the Pacers are willing to take on Marcus Banks, a deal quickly could be consummated. If the Pacers remain focused on Udonis Haslem, the conversations will remain cursory.



    With New York's Stephon Marbury, the issue is a bit more clouded. Unlike Indiana, which insists it will not buy out Tinsley at anything short of pennies on the dollar, New York apparently is moving closer to an outright release of Marbury, at least that's the latest from The New York Times.



    If Marbury is waived, the Heat would be first in position to make a waiver claim, because of its league-worst 2007-08 record. Of course, lacking the cap space or financial interest in such a move, the Heat, like each of the other 28 remaining teams, would have to wait until Marbury clears waivers.



    Adding Marbury in free agency would mean also remaining on the hook for Banks' three remaining seasons, as well as having four point guards in camp, when counting Marbury, Banks, Mario Chalmers and Chris Quinn.



    Common sense would say that if Marbury truly wants to regain his stature, the Heat would be the most logical landing point. Where else, perhaps beyond Indiana, would he have as solid a chance to emerge as an opening-night starter?



    Yet is that where a team of the future should be headed? It's a tough call. At a point in the post-Shaq era when the Heat is trying to get everything to again be about team, is adding a veteran trying to resurrect his personal star the way to go?



    A tough call? Certainly. But one the Heat soon might have to make.

    http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_basketball_heat/

  2. #2

    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Would anyone be willing to take Banks for Tinsley? There would have to be other players involved (for salary cap reasons) and Miami needs a big too. Any thoughts?

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    This article loses credibility when the author suggests that Marbury would have a shot at the starting PG job in Indiana. That's as much hogwash as I've ever read. I'm not even sure that Crean would take him at IU.
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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    This article loses credibility when the author suggests that Marbury would have a shot at the starting PG job in Indiana. That's as much hogwash as I've ever read. I'm not even sure that Crean would take him at IU.
    Yep that is stupid for him to say Marbury would start here.

    Otherwise, the Pacers would really have to think about a a Banks deal (I think he basically has 3 years 13.3 million left) and expiring contract(s).

    Then they'd have the option to waive Banks (maybe even wait until after this season) and then it's essentially like buying out Tinsley for

    -one year of Banks on the team
    -plus 9 million (what is left on the last two years of Banks contract.
    -plus the expiring one year deal of a expiring player for like 3 million (you could keep that player or not, really)

    So its like buying out Tinsley sort of, but you save some money and some future cap space and maybe Banks becomes a better asset than Tinsley after a year.

    Not the best thing in the world since Banks will still be on your books 3 years from now, but for only 4.7 million v. 7.5 for JT.

    Again, not the best thing in the world, but it gets Tinsley out of town and you save some money/capspace. Plus JT on Southbeach is worth it all by itself.

    edit, Smush Parker is a free agent now (not available to be expiring contract fodder), I guess, at least according to Wikipedia so it has to be true.
    Last edited by Speed; 09-19-2008 at 03:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    A Tinsley for Banks trade does not work salary wise. The likely he is referring to is Blount and Banks coming here since he said forget Haslem.

    Going to the Heat would be Tinsley and either Nesterovic or Foster. I want no part of Blount. Mark Blount is owed 16 mil over the next 2 seasons while Nesterovic and Foster are both expiring contracts.

    Any savings in the Tinsley / Banks part would be lost due to Blount's 8 mil , 2nd year of his deal.

    Smush Parker has signed to play overseas next season.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Why do they want to get rid of Banks beyond his contract? I thought I'd heard/seen before that he was a bad egg of some sort, too?

    Also, if you add Maceo Baston in, you could trade him and Tinsley for Banks and Haslem.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Why do they want to get rid of Banks beyond his contract? I thought I'd heard/seen before that he was a bad egg of some sort, too?

    Also, if you add Maceo Baston in, you could trade him and Tinsley for Banks and Haslem.
    They want to get rid of Banks because he still has 3 years left on his deal and he's just not that good of a player.

    I don't see the Heat giving up Haslem in any deal with the Pacers. Haslam has been a solid guy for them for awhile now and he's signed to a reasonable deal. He's basically their Jeff Foster.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    The Heat would take on Marbury without a second thought.

    If all Financially considerations are equal.....Marbury is less injury prone, is as good as Tinsley is on Defense, a better scorer then Tinsley is and would probably be considered equal as a Lockerroom presense.
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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Thats ok. We don't need to send him to the Heat. Let Marbury screw that team up for the next 3-5 years. See the NY Knicks. Wait until a starting PG goes down and they have no viable options. There will be a team whose PG goes down. Think Alston in Hou, Nash in Pho, Fisher in LA, Rondo in Bos, or Kidd in Dal. I dont think it would be the end of the world if Tinsley doesnt get traded until sometime into the season.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    I guess what I'm going to start telling myself is that the worst case scenario is he's an expiring contract in 2011 to shop.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    A Tinsley for Banks trade does not work salary wise. The likely he is referring to is Blount and Banks coming here since he said forget Haslem.

    Going to the Heat would be Tinsley and either Nesterovic or Foster. I want no part of Blount. Mark Blount is owed 16 mil over the next 2 seasons while Nesterovic and Foster are both expiring contracts.

    Any savings in the Tinsley / Banks part would be lost due to Blount's 8 mil , 2nd year of his deal.

    Smush Parker has signed to play overseas next season.
    Wouldn't we be able to do the Tinsley for Banks deal utilizing the JO trade exception?

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Wouldn't we be able to do the Tinsley for Banks deal utilizing the JO trade exception?
    You can't combine Trade Exceptions with Players.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Why do they want to get rid of Banks beyond his contract? I thought I'd heard/seen before that he was a bad egg of some sort, too?

    Also, if you add Maceo Baston in, you could trade him and Tinsley for Banks and Haslem.
    I'm thinking the same thing as well. For a team that is limited in point guard options, I think it's telling that they're looking to jettison someone that has Bank's talent.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    It's all good in my opinion.

    Marbury should be a great role model for Beasley. To be sure, Marbury at the helm should keep them out of legitimate contention for years. What a mix that would be down there. It reminds me of the failed pile-up of talent in Denver...that amounted to nothing in the playoffs.

    The alternative is Tinsley out the door. Another good move in my book. If Banks and Blount keep their nose clean, they are welcome to sit and clap for the rest of the team. It would be better than seeing Tinsley there.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    You can't combine Trade Exceptions with Players.
    I thought the trade exception allowed you to take back less incoming trade value. Am I mistaken in thinking we could do Tinsley for Banks straight up due to the $2 million+ TE?

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I thought the trade exception allowed you to take back less incoming trade value. Am I mistaken in thinking we could do Tinsley for Banks straight up due to the $2 million+ TE?
    You're mistaken.

    For one thing, Tinsley has a higher salary, so it would actually be Miami that has the salary problem.

    Second, the TE is a slot, not an asset. We can't give it to Miami. We can only use it to place a player who's already under contract to another team.

    Finally, since the TE is not a transferrable asset, it cannot be combined with anything. A TE is just like an MLE. It can be broken up to acquire multiple players, but it cannot be combined with anything. (It also can't be used to sign a FA...only to acquire a player who is already under contract to another team.)

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    You can't combine Trade Exceptions with Players.
    After so many discussions on this topic, I think CableKC's one line in his post should be a sticky at the top of the first page on this forum.

    I don't say that to be mean to the poster who asked the question, it is just that the question (or scenarios where posters try to base a trade on it) keeps coming up over, and over.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    After so many discussions on this topic, I think CableKC's one line in his post should be a sticky at the top of the first page on this forum.

    I don't say that to be mean to the poster who asked the question, it is just that the question (or scenarios where posters try to base a trade on it) keeps coming up over, and over.
    People keep responding with "You can't combine a TE with a player in a trade." That's not what I'm asking. I guess what I'm asking is if the TE is used to balance incoming/outgoing trade value. Not as a tradeable asset; I know that you can't send out Tinsley + TE for another player. I'm asking what role the TE plays when figuring the salary portion of a trade. Count, I think my problem is that (like you said) I've got the salary backwards. If Tinsley made less than Banks, then we could do the deal due to the TE. Do I finally have it right?

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    If Tinsley made less than Banks, then we could do the deal due to the TE. Do I finally have it right?
    The fact that Banks makes less money than Tinsley is not affected by the TE at all. It doesn't even come into play. It's a complete non-factor in this case.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    I wouldn't mind seeing the Pacers add in a 3rd team on this. Perhaps Golden State as they are looking to unload Al?

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothdave1 View Post
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    I wouldn't mind seeing the Pacers add in a 3rd team on this. Perhaps Golden State as they are looking to unload Al?
    The Warriors want to unload Al, but not at the expense of trading Al's remaining 2 years for Tinsley's 3.

    If you'd rather have Harrington because his contract his shorter, well so would every other team.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    I recall someone (Bruno maybe?) seriously slamming Al on Pacers.com....to the point I would be surprised we would ever re-acquire him....because the statement was fairly personal in my book. I would like to have Al back regardless because I would start him at PF on this team...

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    The fact that Banks makes less money than Tinsley is not affected by the TE at all. It doesn't even come into play. It's a complete non-factor in this case.
    I guess I'll never understand this TE thing.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I guess I'll never understand this TE thing.
    As far as I know, it's exclusively used to allow you to absorb a player from another team's roster onto your payroll without giving up someone in return.

    I'm not sure if you have to include something (cash, a pick, a tiny salary) to make it legal or if you can just absorb a player another team doesn't want anymore.

    Otherwise, it's useless.

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    Default Re: Tinsley or Marbury a tough call for the Heat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    As far as I know, it's exclusively used to allow you to absorb a player from another team's roster onto your payroll without giving up someone in return.

    I'm not sure if you have to include something (cash, a pick, a tiny salary) to make it legal or if you can just absorb a player another team doesn't want anymore.

    Otherwise, it's useless.
    That is pretty much how I understand it. It allows you to trade nothing (consuming the TE) for a player that makes equal or less dollars than your TE is worth. I'm not sure if the 125% rule is also in effect with TEs, but I would doubt it. It's basically picking up another team's player as a restricted free agent(because they want to get rid of his salary), but your salary cap situation is not taken into account.

    So it is of no value when trading players for one another (well, if you are creative there are ways if it is multiple players I guess), but is only used when you want to trade nothing for something.

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