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Thread: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

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    Default Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    this article is very complimentary of Danny but I'm surprised he's ranked so low. I would rank him in the early 30s at the very least.

    http://nba.fanhouse.com/2008/08/28/n...granger-no-44/
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    NBA Top 50: Danny Granger (No. 44)

    Tom ZillerPosted Aug 28th 2008 10:30AM by Tom Ziller (author feed)
    Filed under: Pacers


    FanHouse's Tom Ziller argues his ranking of the top 50 players in the NBA.

    Even on a team lacking tangible bright spots, Danny Granger has gotten a bit lost in translation from the outside perspective. You rarely hear his name mentioned with the Iguodalas and Smiths and Dengs ... but he's certainly in the same class. He's due a contract extension this summer, but there have been only minor rumblings, and it could very well be that the Pacers will let him get to restricted free agency next summer.

    That's a mad gambit, because Granger's a tremendous player who is only getting better.

    He almost looks like Carmelo Anthony's Other, his defensive-minded half. Where 'Melo refuses to pause or stop on offense, Granger does the same defensively, forcing his will upon his attacker rather than the other way around. People don't drive on Granger: he drives them back or into the ground. He gets steals, he gets blocks, he rebounds. He stands his man up. And yes, Indiana has been a mediocre defensive team. But that has a lot more to do with Jamaal Tinsley and Troy Murphy than Granger.

    The great thing: his offense has come around superbly, too. He proved this year that the three-point stroke he showed in 2006-07 was no fluke by hitting for better than 40%. Jim O'Brien's bang-bang system seemed to agree with him, despite the lack of a decent point guard. Granger borrow some aggression for his offensive game, kept his efficiency strong, and ended up a shade under 20 points per night.

    Basically, Granger has positioned himself as a New Wave Shawn Marion, a glue stick for a dynamic roster. As we all know, Marion (already good) became a stunner when Phoenix replaced Stephon Marbury with Steve Nash. How much will T.J. Ford help Granger? I'm betting a little big here, but I truly believe Granger's box scores can get even wilder ... all while offering the best man defense Indiana can offer. For the Pacers to get back on the upswing, Granger is the clear engine, the player who will have the most to say about where Indy ends up in the standings.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Good find on the article. My only question is how is Tinsley a defensive liability when he is never on the court?

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    I wouldn't have been surprised if he wasn't ranked at all with the lack of media coverage the Pacers are getting these days. It would have been nice to see him somewhere in the thrities, because if you asked me to name 43 players better than Granger, I wouldn't be able to name them all (Or maybe I'm just being a homer).

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    If you consider there are 30 NBA teams, and certainly some of those 30 possess 2+ players better than Danny, 44 sounds pretty good.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    If you consider there are 30 NBA teams, and certainly some of those 30 possess 2+ players better than Danny, 44 sounds pretty good.
    I figured I'd say this, since it is rare that it happens:

    I totally and completely agree with Hicks.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    Good find on the article. My only question is how is Tinsley a defensive liability when he is never on the court?
    Because he's a better defender in a suit than he is in a jersey.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Wasn't sure whether to start a new thread or put this in here:
    He also ranked T.J. at 45


    FanHouse's Tom Ziller argues his ranking of the top 50 players in the NBA.

    The level of bidding T.J. Ford sparked this summer seems a bit of a sham. Obviously, concerns about his spine should be a factor in considering his services; proper prudence on matters of possibly dire health is key. Thirty missed games two years after a real serious neck injury -- that's unnerving enough for me, too. But Ford has come back from each injury sparkling, and the concept of "injury histories" are mostly overblown. (See: Marcus Camby, Antonio McDyess, Steve Nash.)

    This is to say that when Ford is on the court (often), he is simply spectacular. For a small (demerit) guard who can't shoot (demerit) or defend (demerit), you'd be hard pressed to find a more able lead for your backcourt. Despite playing in an offense ill-suited to his unique skills, Ford tallied a PER above 20 last season ... no small feat. Toronto under Sam Mitchell runs a slow offense, predicated on a surprising amount of isolation, draw-and-kick and high pick-and-roll play. Despite the presence of Bryan Colangelo and his Nash-style point (Ford), this was no Phoenix North.

    So, if under Mitchell Ford could be an excellent offensive player, how will things go in Indiana? Well, Jim O'Brien likes to play fast -- transition offense, defensive gambling, early threes encouraged. Ford loves to gamble and is at his best in the open court (so long as Al Horford's not around). By all indications, Ford is as good a fit for Indiana's up-tempo affair as anyone. I can imagine a team that guns and slips to the rim every time down, with T.J. running the show like a Broadway choreographer.

    The one question, of course: will Ford himself hoist up treys? Setting up Mike Dunleavy and Danny Granger for a transition jack -- that's perfect. Pulling up yourself? No, that won't work. If Ford weren't so damn quick, he'd never get by anyone because every defender in the league would slack off him and let him miss open jumpers all day. But Ford's speed allows him to cross up and get to the rim no matter how soft you guard him. His percentage on close shots was better than ever last year. As he continues to excel at finishing the play himself, that iffy jumper becomes even less necessary.

    But really, the key will be finding those sidekicks. Ford will never be an elite scorer, but Granger can. Funleavy can put in 40 any given night. Brandon Rush, if he develops an NBA three, will be a welcome receiver of Ford's outlets. Every guard on the 2007-08 Pacers shot at least one more three per 36 minutes than Ford did in Toronto. If all goes according to code, every guard on the 2008-09 Pacers will still shoot at least one more three per 36 minutes than Ford.

    If he and O'Brien accept reality, Ford could be an 11-assist per game player. Mix in bonus fast break opportunities on rewarded gambles and maybe some natural, developmental improvement in his jumper for the times he must take a three, and you're looking at an All-Star. Things can go wrong, as they can with every player on this list. Betting on an injury is a fool's game, though. Embrace T.J.'s glorious potential, and don't blink.
    Tags: NBATop50, TJFord
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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Ziller knows his stuff.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    TJ ahead of Redd?
    I don't think Ford will be an All-star or get 11 assists. I hope he doesn't get the minutes to achieve that. Not that I am knocking Ford. With his past, and with good backups, Ford doesn't need to play 32+ minutes. At least earlier in the season he doesn't.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    I know everyone makes a big deal about being an all-satr, but in reality, the NBA All Star Selection is all about popularity, it does not mean you are better than those that didn't get chosen In my opinion.

    Sorry Intri, I wanted to counter that one point.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Quote Originally Posted by USF View Post
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    Funleavy can put in 40 any given night.
    first of all, he has yet to crack 36.

    secondly, love the new nickname.
    This is the darkest timeline.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Ziller knows his stuff.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Most guys will mention Troy Murphy's above-average defense or something else that will reduce their credibility (on the Pacers, at least), but this dude seems to know what's up.

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    first of all, he has yet to crack 36.

    secondly, love the new nickname.
    I think it's fair to say that, though, because he did hit 36, what, five times in the last three months? Perhaps you would have been satisfied with "any given Knicks game"?


    Great finds/reads.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    first of all, he has yet to crack 36.

    secondly, love the new nickname.
    I thought the same thing about both of those quotes.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Quote Originally Posted by intridcold View Post
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    TJ ahead of Redd?
    I don't think Ford will be an All-star or get 11 assists. I hope he doesn't get the minutes to achieve that. Not that I am knocking Ford. With his past, and with good backups, Ford doesn't need to play 32+ minutes. At least earlier in the season he doesn't.
    I totally agree about the # of minutes he gets. Looking at his last 3 seasons....he hasn't averaged anything more then 30 mpg. In the past...most notably last season...due to injuries and lack of depth....I can understand that we were forced to give more minutes to players that would probably have benefitted from limited minutes....but with the addition of Jack, I really hope that we can limit TJ to 28-30mpg. As far as I am concerned.....the less minutes he ( much less anyone else ) plays....the less chance that the player will get injured and the less burnt out he will be by the end of the season. By no means am I suggesting that we cut TJs minutes down to the point where we aren't fully utilizing his skills......I just think that we should give players the # of minutes that does not exceed what they are capable of playing.

    Not to get OT.....but I really hope that we can employ a 9-man rotation that should limit Granger/Dunleavy to about 37 mpg, TJ/Murphy to about 30 mpg, Rasho/Foster/Jack to about 25 mpg with the remaining minutes split up between the remaining GF or PF/C in the lineup.

    I haven't watched games....but does JO'B tend to stick with players that are doing well on the court?

    or

    Does he pull players regardless of how they are doing if they have reached a limit of minutes played in a game?

    My suggested 9-man rotation could be considered Egg-timer clock management.....but the assumption is made that IF a player has the "hot hand" that JO'B will stick with him regardless of minutes played. But I get the sense that JO'B would ( more often then not ) stick with the "hot hand".
    Last edited by CableKC; 08-28-2008 at 01:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyron View Post
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    I know everyone makes a big deal about being an all-satr, but in reality, the NBA All Star Selection is all about popularity, it does not mean you are better than those that didn't get chosen In my opinion.

    Sorry Intri, I wanted to counter that one point.

    I don't want to argue this again about the All-Star game and fairness, etc.

    But the starting 5 is picked by the fans. No way does Ford get a guard position over (unless injured):

    Joe Johnson
    Billups
    Rip
    Arenas
    Butler
    Wade
    Carter


    Those players have the knowability and stats to move past TJ. Even if we are like 3rd in the East I don't see Ford getting a spot. I hope that I am wrong though.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    LOL.....totally OT....but I was checking out the webpage and ran across this Chris Bosh filmed video of Lebron/CP/Howard/Deron eating Hamburgers at some Gas Station stop.

    http://nba.fanhouse.com/tag/ChrisBosh/

    If I walked into some Gas Station stop and saw these guys sitting there eating Hamburgers...it would positively be surreal.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Quote Originally Posted by intridcold View Post
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    I don't want to argue this again about the All-Star game and fairness, etc.

    But the starting 5 is picked by the fans. No way does Ford get a guard position over (unless injured):

    Joe Johnson
    Billups
    Rip
    Arenas
    Butler
    Wade
    Carter


    Those players have the knowability and stats to move past TJ. Even if we are like 3rd in the East I don't see Ford getting a spot. I hope that I am wrong though.
    I'm not arguing that he's above them. I'm merely arguing that using All Star Selection as a skill level indicator isn't a good measure.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    "Funleavy can put in 40 any given night."

    Well, at least 36.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    first of all, he has yet to crack 36.
    And primarily against the Knicks when he does get that much.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyron View Post
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    I'm not arguing that he's above them. I'm merely arguing that using All Star Selection as a skill level indicator isn't a good measure.
    I see. I am not sure who's point you were countering...The writer said TJ could be an All-Star. I suggested that TJ should never get the minutes that it be an option. Whether or not being an All-Star is merit for being a better player or not I don't care.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Sorry, but I want him to play as much as possible. He is clearly going to be our best point guard and his skills will elevate other players' games. You can get hurt walking to the stadium from your car. If you play scared, you will get hurt. Might as well let it ride.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Quote Originally Posted by mildlysane View Post
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    Sorry, but I want him to play as much as possible. He is clearly going to be our best point guard and his skills will elevate other players' games. You can get hurt walking to the stadium from your car. If you play scared, you will get hurt. Might as well let it ride.
    That's just not how it works though. If it was, Lebron and Kobe would be playing 48 minutes every single night. You have to give guys enough rest. If you play a player like Ford the most minutes you can every game, then by the time you get around to the playoffs, you have a broken down, uninspired starting point guard.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    I don't think you limit TJ's minutes out of concern for injury...I think you do it to maximize his greatest strenght: his speed. If, by playing 28-30 minutes a night, he can go pretty much flat out, and still be fresh late in the season (and possibly into the playoffs), that is the best scenario. It's not to preclude him from putting in a 40-minute night in a key game from time to time, and it's not out of worry for him getting hurt...it's strictly to maximize his performance given his game pace and his diminutive size.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    This probably means a $12 per year contract...

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    Default Re: Danny Granger ranked 44th out in the Top 50 (AOL Sports)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I think it's fair to say that, though, because he did hit 36, what, five times in the last three months? Perhaps you would have been satisfied with "any given Knicks game"?
    i think it's fair to say that if we're going to jump on a PD poster's assertion that ben gordon could put up 50ppg on a given night we might as well hold professionals to similar standards.

    while i'll admit that dunleavy is quite a bit closer to 40 than gordon is to 50, i still think it is ridiculous to say dunleavy can do this "any given night" when he clearly has never actually done it.


    EDIT: sweet mercy, am i turning into anthem?
    Last edited by avoidingtheclowns; 08-28-2008 at 04:12 PM.
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