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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

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  • Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

    August 20, 2008
    How much is Granger worth?


    Posted by Mike Wells


    http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsi...ch_is_gra.html


    I caught up with a Western Conference beat writer I hadn't talked to in a few months last week.

    One of the first things he said was, "Now who are the Pacers starters? Mike Dunleavy, Danny Granger and who else? They don't have anybody that's ever played in an All-Star game."

    That's true.

    I told him Granger will be the next Pacers player to play in an All-Star game.

    When? I don't know.

    Granger, who is going into his fourth year, is still in his rookie contract. The Pacers can sign him to an extension at any time between now and the end of October. If not, he'll be a restricted free agent next summer.

    Bird said a few weeks ago that they haven't really had much discussion with Granger because they can match any offer made to him if they don't sign him to an extension.

    What type of contract do you think the Pacers should offer Granger?

    Here's a look at several contracts players signed over the summer.

    --Andrew Bogut: five years, $60 million

    --Andre Iguodala: six years, $80 million

    --Emeka Okafor: six years, $72 million

    --Josh Smith: five years, $58 million

    --Monta Ellis: six years, $67 million

    I recently asked a league official what type of deal Granger should get. He threw him in the same breath as Iguodala.

    Iguodala and Granger, who play a similar style, put up similar numbers last season.

    Iguodala averaged 19.9 points, 5.4 rebounds and 4.8 assists while shooting 46 percent from the field. 1277

    Granger averaged 19.6 points, 6.1 rebounds and 2.1 assists while making 45 percent of his attempts.

    Do you agree with that assessment?

    Here's a couple of tidbits:

    --Don't think the Pacers have given up trying to trade point guard Jamaal Tinsley. Bird said earlier this week that he thinks things will pick back up after Labor Day because a lot of league officials are either on vacation or at the Olympics in Beijing.

    -- T.J. Ford is doing his best to reach out to his new teammates. The Pacers point guard is expected to go to New York to workout with Dunleavy and Troy Murphy.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  • #2
    Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

    I'd say that's probably about right for Danny. As for Jamaal, hopefully they can get something done before camp starts.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

      No surprises there...other than I'm not sure why Murphleavy are in New York.

      I'm guessing Bogut's numbers are base, because I thought it was 5/72. I'm still hoping 5/60 for Danny, but Iggy's contract numbers would put him around 5/65.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

        The Sixers made the playoffs last year. Granger at 15 million is a lot of money. The Pacers should sign him for only three years at that price. We have discussed this issue before on this very forum.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

          Not sure the Pacers can afford to pay him $80 million.

          Hopefully we can get him for 6 years/$60-70 million.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

            Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
            The Sixers made the playoffs last year. Granger at 15 million is a lot of money. The Pacers should sign him for only three years at that price. We have discussed this issue before on this very forum.
            Iggy's contract was at 6/80, which is actually about $13.3mm per year. It's a little richer than I'd prefer to pay, but it's not $15.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

              If we sign him this year, it will be a five year deal (the max # of years), and DG will probably get ETO's for at least the final year, if not the final two.

              To match Iggy's contract, it would be closer to a 5yr/67mm deal...An $80mm deal would be just below the max ($84mm, I believe), and I don't think we're going there.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

                6/72 max

                He is a wing and if Josh Smith got 5/58 then we can get him for the same price. Look at the difference of markets. I just don't see Granger demanding a Ben Gordon type deal.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

                  I know Danny's gotta look out for himself, but if he's serious about winning, he wouldn't take a contract that would mess up bringing quality players here for a few years. . .That's just my take
                  R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

                    I can certainly see a 5/67 deal. Maybe they are uptight about longer deals now but I doubt Danny's agent would go for 4 even at 56 (14 average).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

                      Murphleavy have both worked out in NY for the past two summers. (I think Troy was born in NY)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

                        Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                        Murphleavy have both worked out in NY for the past two summers. (I think Troy was born in NY)
                        Troy's from NJ, I think. I know that's where the AAU team he sponsors is based.

                        Also, I remember reading something last summer about Dunleavy working with a shooting coach in New York. Whatever he did, it worked, so hopefully it will work again.

                        As for Granger v. Iguodala, I'd say that Iggy is still a little above Danny. He's a better ball-handler and passer, and a slightly better defender. He's also younger. Danny is a much better outside shooter. He's also got an edge as a rebounder and shotblocker.

                        I'd love a 5 year $60-65 million deal for Danny. Though I think we'd be smart to do a frontloaded Kirk Hinrich type of contract. If we pay him $15 million the year Rasho, Daniels, and Foster come off the books and let it decrease from there, that would be a big help in resigning guys like Jack, Rush, and Hibbert when we need to. Morway's been creative in the past, let's hope he keeps it up.
                        "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                        - Salman Rushdie

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

                          Thanks to Iggy for pushing the market rate of a player like Granger up.

                          I would much rather go with a lower salary based contract offer with incentives.

                          If we go for an extension this season ( my prefernce ), I'm guessing a $13 mil a year / 5 year contract that has incentives that can take it up to $75-80 mil over that period ( is it possible to over $10-15 mil in incentives? )

                          If Bird waits until he's a RFA ( which I think is a bad idea given the likely interest from the Blazers ), then I would go for a $12 mil a year / 6 year contract with incentives pushing it up to $80 mil.

                          BTW.....Wells forgot to include what Deng ( who I think is a better comparison when comparing SFs ) got from the Bulls.....a $71 mil / 6 year contract with incentives that go up to $80 mil.

                          Does anyone know if the contract that Iggy got was a straight-up $80 mil contract offer with no incentives?
                          Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

                            I think it's a pretty big deal that TJ is going to NY to meet with Murphleavy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Mike Wells: How Much is Granger Worth?

                              We damn well better not wait until next year. Not only will we end up paying more, but it leads to sore feelings
                              Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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