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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Olympic Basketball Thread

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  • #61
    Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Originally posted by Pacers View Post
    If you're not scared, why don't you come up with the terms instead of having him stab in the dark for something that you can agree to.
    Because I'm at a loss as to how to actually craft a bet fairly on this issue? I'm not going to make a one-sided up-or-down bet on the American side, that's not fair to him, and I'm not going to make a bet that isn't my point just for the sake of so doing.

    And it's hardly a stab in the dark, I've made my position abundantly clear.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

      Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
      Lebron used the word guarantee, but it was extracted. It's funny how people are taking and running with it. I think the reaction tells everyone a whole lot more about people OUS than within the US.

      Anyway, the focus, preparation and talent on this team is greater than any other team in USA basketball history. The dream team may have been more talented, but could have played with their eyes closed against the competition at the time. This team will be challenged only because their focus and preparation will likely never be the very best as compared against other teams gunning for them....but it has gotten better and that fact is likely to make the difference this time.
      I don't dispute anything you're stating. Yes, the talent's better - but talent isn't the issue and never was. The Americans have never been out-talented. The focus is better, agreed - but the focus was there in 2006, too, IMO. The issue to me is style of play, which the Americans have not mastered and probably never will as long as guys like Kobe, LeBron, and Carmelo are on the team. (Maybe it's unfair to include LeBron in that list...)

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

        Originally posted by BorisD View Post
        *YAWN*

        We've heard this before. And we're hearing it again now. But until people do honest business with the fact that international ball is not the NBA and isn't played like the NBA, people will continue to be astonished when USA Basketball continues to perform as only one among several great teams and then be all apopleptic if/when they lose on the international stage.
        Sleepy, huh? Yes, it has been said before, but I suspect this time you might wake up and see them wearing the gold medal.

        Yes, the US has learned that international ball is different. However, the preparation, talent and focus is better than before, notwithstanding your knock on coach K. It may not be enough, but you would be foolish to believe we are not in a much better position this year....something we know you don't wish to recognize...

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

          Originally posted by BorisD View Post
          I don't dispute anything you're stating. Yes, the talent's better - but talent isn't the issue and never was. The Americans have never been out-talented. The focus is better, agreed - but the focus was there in 2006, too, IMO. The issue to me is style of play, which the Americans have not mastered and probably never will as long as guys like Kobe, LeBron, and Carmelo are on the team. (Maybe it's unfair to include LeBron in that list...)
          Although talent is not an overriding factor obviously, it is always an issue. Heart and focus and effort and team work are probably more important in sum total. The truth is, this team not only has more talent but has more of those other factors as well. As for whether the US will master the style is not the issue. They just need to get a C to win the gold...not an A.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

            im kinda surprised nobody has pointed out how Runi and Lithuania beat Manu's defending champ Argentina.
            http://Twitter.com/dRealSource

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

              You just ruined the surprise, deny. I hope you're happy.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

                Boris,
                You've made your point abundantly clear. You said that you don't feel that the US team is the clear cut favorite in this tournament. If they aren't the clear cut favorite, then why not take Anthem up on his wager, pick Argentina and Spain and be done with it? By not doing this, you're essentially conceding that the odds of the US winning it all are greater than Spain + Argentina put together.

                By definition, that sounds like a clear cut favorite to me.

                I'll agree that a short format tournament makes things more unpredictable. If they played an 82 game season, I'd be shocked if any team came finished within 10 games of the US. Still, this format is not so random that it's a coin toss. The underdog isn't suddenly a favorite just because they play in a one off 40 minute game. Less of an underdog, maybe.

                This isn't the same team. I don't buy the "we're actually trying now argument" at all. You admit that the PG situation has been upgraded. That, by definition means this team is very different, because PG play is probably the most important thing you can add when you're putting together a team that doesn't play together for season after season. I will agree with you on the call that this 1-12 might not be the best. We don't have that many bigs, so Chandler would have been very useful, as would another 3 pt specialist.

                You can argue that Anthony, Bryant, Wade, and James are similar, but if they play within the system, all 4 can focus on very different things and play entirely differently. Any other team in the tournament would find a way to put any of those 4 in their starting 5, so what do you do?

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

                  Neither of them really have much of a chance to beat the US so I'm not worried about other games. I'm keeping my eye on Spain, and possibly Greece. I wasn't impressed with how they played against Spain though.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

                    Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                    Although talent is not an overriding factor obviously, it is always an issue. Heart and focus and effort and team work are probably more important in sum total. The truth is, this team not only has more talent but has more of those other factors as well. As for whether the US will master the style is not the issue. They just need to get a C to win the gold...not an A.
                    See, this is the exact attidue othat will be the continued downfall of Basketball USA. You think the Americans can just beat up on tough, proven international teams and that nobody can possibly compete with them. That's proven to be untrue, even in exhibition play. If the American team doesn't show up to play smart, aggressive team ball then somebody will knock them off. The Spanish team can compete with the Americans, no problem (even though I hope they won't). If you think that all these international teams are just a bunch of stiffs, you're sadly mistaken.

                    Heck, I'll go you one better: suppose the Americans on average will beat all the teams they play in the 3 elimination games on average 4 out of 5 times. Over three elimination games that reduces the odds to 64 times in 125 that they will win all three - just over 50% chance of winning everything. And that's giving fairly good odds to the American side.

                    You see why now it's premature to start throwing guarantees around and talking about how a C is good enough? It's not. The Americans might get by on a C effort against the weaker sisters of international ball like China or Germany or Canada, but there are good teams that can challenge the USA up and down the floor for 40 minutes. The USA needs to awaken to that. And few people seem to have awoken to the fact that other countries can actually play some pretty spectacular basketball...

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

                      So you're taking the bet?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

                        Originally posted by Pacers View Post
                        So you're taking the bet?
                        Am I speaking Swahili here? No. Non. Nein. Ηет. The bet is not representative of my position, so why should I?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

                          Well if we're maintaing that this team is largely similar to the 06 team both in core and in style of play shouldn't that help take care of the chemistry issues that the USA has dealt with recently? It's fair to say that in 04 we had two horrible PGs for interantional play isn't it? Spain is very good, but today Argentina lost to a Lithuanian team that we just trounced.


                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

                            Originally posted by BorisD View Post
                            Am I speaking Swahili here? No. Non. Nein. Ηет. The bet is not representative of my position, so why should I?
                            Your position is that the US is not the favorite to win, correct? So you pick your favorite and one other for good measure. Like was said, if you can't say that the US has a lesser shot of winning than Spain and Argentina combined, or whomever you wish to select, that means the US is the clear cut favorite.

                            I'm not seeing how this isn't representative of your position. Maybe you'd understand this better if you did speak Swahili.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

                              Originally posted by BorisD View Post
                              Compare that to what I would perceive as being arrogance by the US team, and I'm thinking the likelihood of hearing the Star Spangled Banner at the podium is looking less and less likely.
                              Originally posted by BorisD View Post
                              That's all great, but the American team is already pretending as though they're the favourites, and the simple fact is they're not. Both Bosh and LeBronze have already guaranteed that the US team is going to win gold...and I really doubt that the American organization is prepared at all for the challenge.

                              The Spanish team have all been playing together since before they were teenagers, and the Americans are simply not prepared for that kind of team play.

                              And the Greeks are just wildly aggressive, they'll bash and beat the Americans all over the place.

                              And I would argue that several teams have far better coaching staffs, the Russians in particular.

                              Basically, I think the other teams are far more prepared for the US team than the US team is for them. And I just don't see them winning, especially with the dearth of players who can make plays for themselves without the basketball.
                              Yeah, I have no idea where people are getting the idea that Boris thinks the Americans are going to lose. That clearly isn't his position. Between calling Kidd a wife beater and the repeated use of LeBronze it is clear his position is that we should be respectful of the other teams.
                              "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                              "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

                                Originally posted by Pacers View Post
                                Your position is that the US is not the favorite to win, correct? So you pick your favorite and one other for good measure. Like was said, if you can't say that the US has a lesser shot of winning than Spain and Argentina combined, or whomever you wish to select, that means the US is the clear cut favorite.

                                I'm not seeing how this isn't representative of your position. Maybe you'd understand this better if you did speak Swahili.
                                *sigh*

                                My position is that there is no favourite to win. The USA is not the clear-cut favourite in any person's mind who knows the slightest thing about international competition. Neither is any other team a favourite to win: they all have strengths and weaknesses. I would not privilege the US above Spain or Greece or Argentina - but neither do I favour them above the US. I'm not betting for Spain, or for Argentina (especially since I actually hope Spain loses), or for Lithuania or for Greece or for the USA.

                                To make it really clear: the US is among the leaders, no question - just not the only one. Their massive advantage in international ball is long since history since other teams have figured out how to neutralize to some extent their advantages and developed their own programs.

                                Comment

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