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Thread: Olympic Basketball Thread

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD
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    I said you hadn't watched a particular set of European games. You're not contesting that you have. Have you watched an Ethniki A game - a PAO-Oly game specifically? (I think at the last one the crowd broke into a snack bar and heaved a bar fridge at the opposing team.)
    Maybe we should let the fanbases play then?

    What the hell does that have to do with anything?

    A couple years ago Jermaine O'Neal had a chair thrown at his head.

    Your point couldn't be any farther off base.

    There is plenty of physical play in the NBA anyone who doesn't want to acknowledge that fact isn't watching enough of the games. Ask TJ Ford and Al Horford if the NBA is physical or not.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    Good Lord, you claim to be the international basketball authority, but you don't seem willing to accept that the difference between Marbury and Iverson and Kidd, Paul, and Williams is miles at the international level. Even if Marbury and Iverson were the two most talented basketball players on the planet they were the two worst PGs possible for international play. Something you CANNOT say about our three PGs now. That in and of itself is enough of a difference for me to think this team can take gold, if that team was able to take bronze. Also, you should know that 2004 team was not in any way, shape, or form the team that America originally wanted to send to the Olympics.
    No, see - I'm not claiming the talent differential between Marbury/Iverson and Williams/Paul/Kidd isn't substantial - of course it is. I have never said otherwise. What I've been arguing is that the difference of talent between the Americans then and the opposition then is just approximately the same as the difference between the Americans now and the opposition now. Yes, the Americans are far better than they have been in the past 8 years but so are the other teams.

    Yes, I know the situation in '04 where they had to settle a lot. But the world has also improved in the same period, which I suppose is some sort of controversial statement for reasons I can't imagine.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    Maybe we should let the fanbases play then?

    What the hell does that have to do with anything?

    A couple years ago Jermaine O'Neal had a chair thrown at his head.

    Your point couldn't be any farther off base.

    There is plenty of physical play in the NBA anyone who doesn't want to acknowledge that fact isn't watching enough of the games. Ask TJ Ford and Al Horford if the NBA is physical or not.
    I'm not going to waste any more time arguing this point with you. The intensity of those games in the crowd and on the floor is off the charts. Go download the last few PAO-Oly games, they're absolute wars on both ends of the floor. Greek teams tend to be vicious - like a bunch of hungover Jorge Garbajosas.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    This is getting mildly ridiculous.

    Really, all Boris is saying is the Team USA might lose. I personally don't think they will, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    I'm not going to waste any more time arguing this point with you. The intensity of those games in the crowd and on the floor is off the charts. Go download the last few PAO-Oly games, they're absolute wars on both ends of the floor. Greek teams tend to be vicious - like a bunch of hungover Jorge Garbajosas.
    Yeah, every time I saw Jorge Garbajosa play I was thinking to myself, that guy looks like a freakin' badass. Or when Pau Gasol steps onto the court I could literally hear Kevin Garnett shaking in his shoes.
    You act like you're point is accepted fact, when it quite simply is not. I'm sure the intensity in Europe varies from team to team just as it does in America at every single level.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    This is getting mildly ridiculous.

    Really, all Boris is saying is the Team USA might lose. I personally don't think they will, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
    His point, whether he wants to acknowledge it or not, is that Team USA is NOT the favorite. Which I do disagree with, so I have every right to discuss it with him.

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  7. #107
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers View Post
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    ZEE LOGIC IT DOES NOTHING!

    If you are not taking a bet of US vs. The Field, you are saying that the US has a better chance to win than everyone put together. Get it?
    I know enough logic to know you're guilty of egregious straw man argumentation in this post. By the way, nice dodge on the fact you misread that post badly, dude. Most of us would accuse you of the fallacy of composition at this point - but it's merely inattention to detail.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    Maybe we should let the fanbases play then?

    What the hell does that have to do with anything?

    A couple years ago Jermaine O'Neal had a chair thrown at his head.

    Your point couldn't be any farther off base.

    There is plenty of physical play in the NBA anyone who doesn't want to acknowledge that fact isn't watching enough of the games. Ask TJ Ford and Al Horford if the NBA is physical or not.
    Jermaine has international experience, he should be starting instead of Howard

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers View Post
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    Boris is scared.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    That's the sense I got from his post. He knows the US is taking things more seriously...
    Guys, let's drop this line of posting before it goes any further, please. I don't like where it might head, and I think it's not giving BorisD enough credit in the first place, either.

    *EDIT*

    And BorisD, I've read a bit further now, and while mostly you've done a fine job of trying to plead your case, calling others naive or that they need "a lesson" of one kind or another is not desired, either. You're not alone, but I just read it from you so here I am. This goes for everyone.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
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    Jermaine has international experience, he should be starting instead of Howard


    Now that's good stuff right there.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers View Post
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    LOL. Boris is a fool. If you are saying the US has the same shot as every other team put together, that makes the US the clear favorite. They don't teach logic where you're from, do they Bor?
    And this is getting deleted.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    This is getting mildly ridiculous.

    Really, all Boris is saying is the Team USA might lose. I personally don't think they will, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
    I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing it that way.

  13. #113
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Now that I'm all caught up:

    The bottom line, everyone, is to keep things as civil as possible, and to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable, if you catch my meaning.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing it that way.
    So statements like legacy of disappointment don't bother you at all? Whatever.

    The proof will be in the pudding. Spain IMO is an awesome team and could very likely beat team USA, I'll go on record as saying I'd be surprised if any other team beat us.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    I've been disappointed for six years. That's a while.
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    It's hardly a legacy of disappointment. The fact that we are even discussing this should show the high regard USA basketball has earned in the eyes of the world.

    Anyways, Shawn Johnson is gonna be coming on TV here soon, so it's hard for me to stay mad at anyone right now.

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  17. #117
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    So statements like legacy of disappointment don't bother you at all? Whatever.
    I must have missed that one. Can you bring the quote out here?

    The bigger point still stands, regardless: Nobody here is perfect or has been perfect, but you all need to stick to the facts and opinions that don't drift into insulting territory. Mistakes happen, but recognize them and learn from them. Don't just get fired up to "hit back" at someone for it. I'm speaking to everyone, btw.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    Let's give you one last English test. Is it my position that the USA will necessarily lose, or that any team will necessarily win? No, it isn't - just that there are factors out there (including arrogance, ignorance of opponent, lack of experience, poor coaching) that could negate the USA's talent advantage, which surely you admit do exist. But the more you guys keep going on, the harder I'll laugh if you do continue your legacy of disappointment internationally.

    And does one series of some 70-odd possessions really once and for all establish who is the better team? Does it make the USA a global dynasty if Pau Gasol and Jose Calderon collide into each other in a game tomorrow and rupture both their achilles' tendons (as hilarious an image as that seems to me) and they go on to trounce Spain? No. Did it make Greece a better team that they beat them in 2006? No - in a 7 game series, the USA wins easily.

    Anything can happen. The USA has by far the best roster, mediocre to subpar coaching, and next to no international experience. You all privilege raw talent, I'm simply stating that it's not so simple. I'm sorry a complex and nuanced position seems to give some of you so much trouble.
    Some of his other keeper quotes have been this being largely the same team as 2006 even though six players have changed. I don't care if we do play the same style if you change half the roster it's not even close to being the same team. Especially when you add Kobe's impact defensively.

    Either way I've beaten my stance over the head. So we'll wait and see what happens. However please ignore me because I lack reading comprehension and I misconstrue the word legacy to mean more than the past 6 years. Even though that is clearly not what he meant
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 08-10-2008 at 08:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I feel like everyone is sleeping in Iran.
    That's what I meant to say. It's like two in the morning over there.
    Iran Iran so far away
    This is the darkest timeline.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    This is getting mildly ridiculous.

    Really, all Boris is saying is the Team USA might lose. I personally don't think they will, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
    It's even more ridiculous than that. It's like saying they're not a clear cut favorite, and they might lose, but he wouldn't take the odds of naming a two teams to win gold instead, and he even refuses to take the rest of the field vs. the USA for the gold.

    All of this exposes him as someone who doesn't like USA basketball. Which is fine, because I'm not too fond of it right now either. You can pick apart weaknesses of the team (Anthony instead of a big man, coaching (a very debateable one IMHO), the history of the last three tournaments, etc.

    I suppose if he were to turn his little microscope on the weaknesses of the other teams in the tournament, he would find much larger weaknesses, but to him, it's a little more fun to make a mountain out of a molehill on a US-oriented board than to look at things with any degree of objectivity.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Let's be honest coaching doesn't matter much for this Olympic team. Coach K is like the Queen of England, a figurehead and nothing more. I'm not saying that any cocky manner like Team USA doesn't need a head coach, I'm just saying I don't think the head coach is gonna have much impact on how this team plays.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Coach is always important for team mentality, leadership, strategy, tactics, adjustments

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    This is getting mildly ridiculous.

    Really, all Boris is saying is the Team USA might lose. I personally don't think they will, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
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  24. #124

    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by denyfizle View Post
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    im kinda surprised nobody has pointed out how Runi and Lithuania beat Manu's defending champ Argentina.
    Ok, I'll do this It was expected and i was pretty confident that lithuanians will win. In preparation tournament Lith. won against Argentina by some 20-30 points. Only a really bad shooting from outside did not allowed run away (argentinians could defend the paint more tightly). The biggest problem, i see in Arg. camp, is that they can't run. They can fight anyone in the paint, but they are doomed if they can't stop running offense.
    So, not taking anything away from Argentinians (and agreeing that they could win against Lith. next time), i don't see them being champions this time. They can fight russ., lith., greeks, but they are pretty much exposed to Spain (especially) and USA.
    Regarding Lithuanian team - for me it's very hard to predict something. They don't have superstars, but they have a good hardworking players. Some of them:
    * Ramunas Siskauskas - this years Euroleague seasons MVP, who is very good at both sides which is a very rare feature and has high bbIQ.
    * Linas Kleizas - very ambicious Denver Nuggets forward. Last year droped 41 points on Utah Jazz. The one which Nuggets decided not to give Sacramento for Artest. Quick, agressive and a good shooter.
    * a bunch of others you might not interessted about
    BTW, Argentina was killed by Kleiza who attacked 100%, droped all 3 3-pointers in last period and the deciding 3-pointer with 1.5 sec. to go. GET HIM, please
    The strength of Lith. team is that everyone (except maybe Saras and centeres), especially our forwards are the good shooters and it is hard to defend agains such a team. Weakness - the pressure gets them out of the rythm.

    To conclude this, IMHO Spain and USA will be cometing for gold (no team is a favorite in this competition). Lith, Russia, Greeks and maybe Argentina will be competing for bronze.
    I'm really sorry because of my english (which is my 3-4 language) and I really appreciate Your patience. I hope this board will make me better

  25. #125
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DeS View Post
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    Ok, I'll do this It was expected and i was pretty confident that lithuanians will win. In preparation tournament Lith. won against Argentina by some 20-30 points. Only a really bad shooting from outside did not allowed run away (argentinians could defend the paint more tightly). The biggest problem, i see in Arg. camp, is that they can't run. They can fight anyone in the paint, but they are doomed if they can't stop running offense.
    So, not taking anything away from Argentinians (and agreeing that they could win against Lith. next time), i don't see them being champions this time. They can fight russ., lith., greeks, but they are pretty much exposed to Spain (especially) and USA.
    Regarding Lithuanian team - for me it's very hard to predict something. They don't have superstars, but they have a good hardworking players. Some of them:
    * Ramunas Siskauskas - this years Euroleague seasons MVP, who is very good at both sides which is a very rare feature and has high bbIQ.
    * Linas Kleizas - very ambicious Denver Nuggets forward. Last year droped 41 points on Utah Jazz. The one which Nuggets decided not to give Sacramento for Artest. Quick, agressive and a good shooter.
    * a bunch of others you might not interessted about
    BTW, Argentina was killed by Kleiza who attacked 100%, droped all 3 3-pointers in last period and the deciding 3-pointer with 1.5 sec. to go. GET HIM, please
    The strength of Lith. team is that everyone (except maybe Saras and centeres), especially our forwards are the good shooters and it is hard to defend agains such a team. Weakness - the pressure gets them out of the rythm.

    To conclude this, IMHO Spain and USA will be cometing for gold (no team is a favorite in this competition). Lith, Russia, Greeks and maybe Argentina will be competing for bronze.
    Thanks for the info . I aggree with your last paragraph and I think there will be atleast one team that will go a lot further then expected.
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