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Thread: Olympic Basketball Thread

  1. #451
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Didn't see the game so maybe Argentina had some sort of impenetrable zone but taking nearly half our FG attempts from 3 isn't what this team should be doing.

    I guess it's a win.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    The had more perimeter pressure, but we rarely use picks on the perimeter. After we went up big early, we were content and their energy kept it close. Once we pounded in down low it was over. Oberto was foul prone, Scola did what he could, Nocioni was hurt, and Gonsalez is a goon.

  3. #453
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    Didn't see the game so maybe Argentina had some sort of impenetrable zone but taking nearly half our FG attempts from 3 isn't what this team should be doing.
    It wasn't like it was a bunch of crazy heaves, though. There were plenty of good looks.

    The one way you could really improve this team is with more outside shooting. Last time it seemed like Joe Johnson was making corner threes like layups.
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  4. #454
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Understand what you mean but not sure I agree. Argentina's success was from playing a different game without Manu on the floor - it took the US until after halftime to adjust to Scola taking over. I don't think the Argentina initial adjustment happens if Manu is on the floor.
    Understandably so. But adjustments or not. Their offense would have faired better with the leading scorer of the tournament. When US went dry a few times in the second half, Argentina matched it with dryness. I could have seen Manu putting more points during that spell. Manu's driving could have also opened up Scola for easy twos. Delfino could have been open from the wing instead of having to create himself. The variables may have been different, and the result could have been the same. Or not. Either way I thought that if Argentina had Manu they had a greater shot of drawing close at the end than if he wasn't there.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    It wasn't like it was a bunch of crazy heaves, though. There were plenty of good looks.

    The one way you could really improve this team is with more outside shooting. Last time it seemed like Joe Johnson was making corner threes like layups.
    Joe Johnson may have been better for this team than Kobe. Not saying that Kobe is a worse player. It is that Johnson fits a need more than Kobe. Kobe, James, and Wade produce similarly.

  6. #456

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    Quote Originally Posted by intridcold View Post
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    Joe Johnson may have been better for this team than Kobe. Not saying that Kobe is a worse player. It is that Johnson fits a need more than Kobe. Kobe, James, and Wade produce similarly.
    Joe Johnson shot 12-39 from three in 2006 worlds

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    WHAT THE ****.

    After watching every single game of this tournament (save for the Germany game), the gold medal game will be on at TWO THIRTY IN THE FRIGGIN' MORNING.

  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
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    Joe Johnson shot 12-39 from three in 2006 worlds
    Hmm. I guess that's why he's not on this team. Perhaps I'm thinking of a different tourney?

    Regardless, this team needs some shooting. Maybe play Redd more? Kobe and Carmello were 4 of17.
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  9. #459
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
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    Joe Johnson shot 12-39 from three in 2006 worlds
    That is 30%. Atlanta 05-06 he shot 35%. Since then he is shooting 38%. He has gotten better. Kobe is shooting 31% on 14/45. Redd is 5/18. James is 11/25. A 2006 Joe Johnson would shoot better on a team with better chemistry. How much better would a 2008 Joe Johnson?

  10. #460

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    Quote Originally Posted by intridcold View Post
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    That is 30%. Atlanta 05-06 he shot 35%. Since then he is shooting 38%. He has gotten better. Kobe is shooting 31% on 14/45. Redd is 5/18. James is 11/25. A 2006 Joe Johnson would shoot better on a team with better chemistry. How much better would a 2008 Joe Johnson?
    I just think there are better pure shooters in NBA, i see Joe Johnson more of a scorer not a shooter, anyway when you have Kobe Lebron Melo and Wade on the wings theres not much time left for any roleplayers.

    Here's the stats from 2006
    http://www.usabasketball.com/seniorm...ive_stats.html

  11. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    It wasn't like it was a bunch of crazy heaves, though. There were plenty of good looks.
    Doesn't matter. Teams should be smart enough to play to their strengths. When your outside shooting sucks - which ours has for most of the tournament - you shouldn't take a bunch of outside shots.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  12. #462

    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Calderon has a partial tear on adductor (whatever that is) so Rubio and Lopez will play alot.

  13. #463
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Nothing to worry about as far as Spain goes. Gasol will disappear as usual in clutch games. By the way, the Spain/Lithuania game earlier today was fantastic. Rudy Fernandez is awesome. Portland has an embarrasment of riches. Bayless, Fernandez, Oden coming back. These are the future champs if they can keep these young guys hungry and humble. It's just unreal to have that much talent, and to be in phenomenal financial shape to boot.

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
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    Calderon has a partial tear on adductor (whatever that is) so Rubio and Lopez will play alot.
    So does that mean he'll be out for the final?

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    I'm baffled that we've never gotten Rip Hamilton to play for team USA. He'd be perfect.

  16. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    Doesn't matter. Teams should be smart enough to play to their strengths. When your outside shooting sucks - which ours has for most of the tournament - you shouldn't take a bunch of outside shots.
    That's a great theory, but sometimes defenses take away your "strengths" and make you play to your weaknesses. Notice that in the Finals, Boston consistently overplayed and denied the "No. 1 Pass" to the wing in the Triple Post to Los Angeles, and pressured ballhandlers to deny the dribble-wing entry to the offense. They forced LA to use their pressure releases, and LA was terrible in doing so.

    I've been saying all along that a team that jammed inbounds passes against this US team and could slow down their transition attack and played a zone from the inside-out in halfcourt defense could beat this team - that becomes even more likely the more Kobe Bryant is forced to be a decision-maker. Granted, that's far easier said that done (obviously!) but that's held to be true. It's just that the American team had a good enough combination of athleticism and ballhandling to make that nearly impossible. As the athletic gap between American players and world players narrows, though, I wonder how long it will be before the playing field is tilted against the US internationaly? Probably not long.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    So does that mean he'll be out for the final?
    Probably, as he and Michael Richards are planning on working on a standup routine together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    That's a great theory, but sometimes defenses take away your "strengths" and make you play to your weaknesses.
    Sometimes they do. But not today. And so far no team has done it in the tournament - and I don't think any of them are able to.

    Just for kicks, according to the ESPN play-by-play here's how deep into the shot clock the USA's 3-pt attempts were in the 2nd period:

    8 seconds - Deron Williams miss
    7 seconds - Carmelo Anthony make
    8 seconds - Carmelo Anthony miss
    14 seconds - Kobe Bryant miss
    2 seconds - Lebron James miss
    16 seconds - Carmelo Anthony miss
    13 seconds - Kobe Bryant make
    8 seconds - Chris Paul miss
    14 seconds - Kobe Bryant miss

    Guess what - when you shoot 9 3's in a quarter and only 1 attempt comes even halfway into the shot clock, you aren't shooting them because the other team forced you to.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    Sometimes they do. But not today. And so far no team has done it in the tournament - and I don't think any of them are able to.

    Just for kicks, according to the ESPN play-by-play here's how deep into the shot clock the USA's 3-pt attempts were in the 2nd period:

    8 seconds - Deron Williams miss
    7 seconds - Carmelo Anthony make
    8 seconds - Carmelo Anthony miss
    14 seconds - Kobe Bryant miss
    2 seconds - Lebron James miss
    16 seconds - Carmelo Anthony miss
    13 seconds - Kobe Bryant make
    8 seconds - Chris Paul miss
    14 seconds - Kobe Bryant miss

    Guess what - when you shoot 9 3's in a quarter and only 1 attempt comes even halfway into the shot clock, you aren't shooting them because the other team forced you to.
    Early shots may be a symptom of impatience as opposed to particularly good defense - or it could be that the defense did a good job clogging the inside and reversal passes early and left the early jump shot as the best shot available. I didn't watch the game (stuck at work ) so I can't tell. I'm imagining that a little of both was at play.

    Plus, the US still has Kobe Bryant (arguably the worst decision-maker on the US team this tournament) playing big minutes and seeing a lot of the ball - so that's going to bail the defense out on occasion, too.

  19. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    Early shots may be a symptom of impatience
    For the most part, they were good shots though. That's the weird thing... there's no reason our shooting should be this terrible.
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  20. #470
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    For the most part, they were good shots though. That's the weird thing... there's no reason our shooting should be this terrible.
    Just terrible decision making. They should not be taking these shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    Early shots may be a symptom of impatience as opposed to particularly good defense - or it could be that the defense did a good job clogging the inside and reversal passes early and left the early jump shot as the best shot available. I didn't watch the game (stuck at work ) so I can't tell. I'm imagining that a little of both was at play.

    Plus, the US still has Kobe Bryant (arguably the worst decision-maker on the US team this tournament) playing big minutes and seeing a lot of the ball - so that's going to bail the defense out on occasion, too.
    Early shots when you're a poor shooting team is a symptom of a team playing lazy, not making the other team work, and not playing to your strengths. It's playing stupid. You saying because someone gives Shaq open 3's he should feel obligated to take them?

    For us, an early outside shot is NEVER the best shot available except on the break (when you have an advantage for offensive rebounding) - and for this team, probably not even then. It's pure dumbassedness.

    Spain can't beat us - unless we jack up a bunch of outside shots early in the shot clock and this happens to be anything other than the 1 in about every 5 games where we happen to be hitting.

    We play smart and do the things we're supposed to do and we should win this thing. We play lazy and stupid and we give Spain a great shot. Not to mention that you couldn't design a better way to give the other team break chances and not have them have to face OUR set defense than by jacking up outside shots.

    "Oooh - we're winning games with stifling halfcourt defense? I know! Let's play the game so the other team doesn't have to face our halfcourt defense!"
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    I'm really not concerned with how or why we missed the shots. We still won by 20. We've cruised through the tourney, there just isn't a whole lot to worry about from this team, IMO.

    Losing in the gold medal game would be a massive upset now.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    For the most part, they were good shots though. That's the weird thing... there's no reason our shooting should be this terrible.
    That happens sometimes, you take good shots and they don't go down. If they always went down, the better team would always win - and we know that's not a universal truism.

    And an early 3 is not necessarily a terrible shot if there is an advantage on the offensive glass and the shot is lightly contested and the shooter's feet are prepared. There are plenty of secondary breaks out there that feature an open look for a shooter; for example, the majority of UNC's secondary breaks feature a two-man game on the strong side and a double screen of some sort (be it double-staggered or a double-line) for a shooter to get an early good look.

    And I wouldn't buy into the myth too much that a defensive rebound is necessarily a better starting point for transition offense than a make. Any team that runs worth its salt pushes the ball equally effectively "make or miss". As I teach when I've coached, "it's not how you get the ball, it's how quickly you get the ball out". Early missed shorts are probably more hurtful to the psychology of a team than to its pace, IMO, although many coaches disagree with me on that count.

  24. #474
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers View Post
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    WHAT THE ****.

    After watching every single game of this tournament (save for the Germany game), the gold medal game will be on at TWO THIRTY IN THE FRIGGIN' MORNING.
    Simple explanation. If they had it on at 8:00 or 10:00 AM our time that would be actually after the closing ceremonyhad started.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Well then why not have the damn thing on Saturday night.

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