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Thread: Olympic Basketball Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Ah, reality is setting in.

    Quickness and athleticism combined with an actual game plan is pretty much unstoppable. While other teams are more than capable of playing smart, eurostyle, team basketball...tremendous athletes that have a relatively good game plan will ultimately be victorious.

    Similar to Sarunas, the superstar, the rest of the world will bow to the quickness and athleticism of the NBA...because that's the difference. The rest of the world can learn ALL they want about the game, but they cannot learn how to be quicker and more athletic. It is an advantage the Americans alone have from top to bottom.

    Um......

    This will show the rest of the world that Americans are not arrogant how????

    Look I love the NBA and the USA as much as anyone but isn't this exactly the attitude that the rest of the world complains about when they talk about us?

    I have a feeling you may be using hyperbole to counteract what you see as a troll perhaps, but still....

    Yes we have great athletes, yes we have a game plan but we still could be beaten and even if we win it's not the blowouts of the dream teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Ah, reality is setting in.

    Quickness and athleticism combined with an actual game plan is pretty much unstoppable. While other teams are more than capable of playing smart, eurostyle, team basketball...tremendous athletes that have a relatively good game plan will ultimately be victorious.

    Similar to Sarunas, the superstar, the rest of the world will bow to the quickness and athleticism of the NBA...because that's the difference. The rest of the world can learn ALL they want about the game, but they cannot learn how to be quicker and more athletic. It is an advantage the Americans alone have from top to bottom.
    Uh, that's special.

    We had the quickness and athleticism in the 2004 Olympics.

    We got our asses handed to us on a platter.

    We had the quickness and athleticism in the 2006 Worlds.

    We got our asses handed to us on a platter.

    We rely on quickness and athleticism and we'll get our asses handed to us on a platter.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Wow, Australia is smoking Russia right now. That could seriously endanger their playoff hopes.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Bogut just posterized the entire Russian frontline.

    Russia's done. They look completely in shock. They will need a miracle now just to make the playoffs.
    Last edited by Kstat; 08-16-2008 at 12:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Um......

    This will show the rest of the world that Americans are not arrogant how????

    Look I love the NBA and the USA as much as anyone but isn't this exactly the attitude that the rest of the world complains about when they talk about us?

    I have a feeling you may be using hyperbole to counteract what you see as a troll perhaps, but still....

    Yes we have great athletes, yes we have a game plan but we still could be beaten and even if we win it's not the blowouts of the dream teams.
    The Dream Team wouldn't be winning by anymore than this team is right now.

    *Runs to a corner prepares to be stoned.*

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Um......

    This will show the rest of the world that Americans are not arrogant how????

    Look I love the NBA and the USA as much as anyone but isn't this exactly the attitude that the rest of the world complains about when they talk about us?

    I have a feeling you may be using hyperbole to counteract what you see as a troll perhaps, but still....

    Yes we have great athletes, yes we have a game plan but we still could be beaten and even if we win it's not the blowouts of the dream teams.
    Yes, it was hyperbole...playing into our persona. That's not a violation is it?

    The point I am trying to make is that athleticism and quickness is the ADDITIONAL factor that makes this team better than any other in the field. I am NOT saying that it will win the day for you alone. This quote might say it best:

    "If they play that kind of defense,” Colangelo said, “it doesn’t matter how we shoot.”

    I suppose some people might argue that it does matter how you shoot, which would be true. But I think Colangelo is making a somewhat similar point. Yes, defense does not equal quickness and athleticism, but there is certainly a strong correlation because effort alone simply does not get it done. Otherwise, I would be a lockdown defender in the NBA.

    I realize as anyone else here, including DisplacedKnick, that the US had the same athleticism and quickness in prior failures. I'm not arguing that it is the only thing the US needs to bring to the table. But the facts are the facts. It is a trump card whether that's considered arrogant or not.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    The Dream Team wouldn't be winning by anymore than this team is right now.

    *Runs to a corner prepares to be stoned.*
    I wouldn't disagree with you - the level of the rest of the world is much higher than it was in 1992. It's why we can't just take our 12 best players, throw them on the court together and expect to win. Nice that the Dream Team was able to dominate playing what essentially was pick-up basketball but that'll never happen again.

    In fact, I'd argue that if you took the Dream Team (teleported so they all aren't 50) and put them together the same way they did in '92 with the same organization, practice time and number of exhibitions, they wouldn't do as well as the current team.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    I wouldn't disagree with you - the level of the rest of the world is much higher than it was in 1992. It's why we can't just take our 12 best players, throw them on the court together and expect to win. Nice that the Dream Team was able to dominate playing what essentially was pick-up basketball but that'll never happen again.

    In fact, I'd argue that if you took the Dream Team (teleported so they all aren't 50) and put them together the same way they did in '92 with the same organization, practice time and number of exhibitions, they wouldn't do as well as the current team.
    Funny... I was thinking the exact same thing last night while watching the Greece game (yeah I'm behind).
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    China defeats Germany, and for all intents and purposes, eliminates them from playoff contention.

    China's heading for the playoffs, and they know it.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    The Dream team wasn't as good offensively as this one, but they were infinitely better offensively.

    It remains the greatest team ever assembled. They'd shred the modern day zones of the current teams.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Ah, reality is setting in.

    Quickness and athleticism combined with an actual game plan is pretty much unstoppable. While other teams are more than capable of playing smart, eurostyle, team basketball...tremendous athletes that have a relatively good game plan will ultimately be victorious.

    Similar to Sarunas, the superstar, the rest of the world will bow to the quickness and athleticism of the NBA...because that's the difference. The rest of the world can learn ALL they want about the game, but they cannot learn how to be quicker and more athletic. It is an advantage the Americans alone have from top to bottom.
    No doubt athleticism is an advantage and no doubt the American team has it in spades in this tournament, but will it "ultimately be victorious"? Not necessarily, otherwise the Atlanta Hawks would have been NBA champions last year and Stromile Swift and Tyrus Thomas would have been co-MVPs.

    There still is a place for disciplined team play and skill, not just an impressive 40 time and a vertical leap. As others pointed out, that has been proven in the past internationally and even to an extent this year, as far less athletic teams aren't exactly looking like they don't even belong on the floor next to the US side (despite the fact that none of the games have been especially close, they aren't out-and-out domination like the FIBA Americas tournament last year).

    As far as the 92 Dream Team, it's just speculation, but I'm fairly confident they'd handle this US team fairly easily and be fairly dominant against the international competition. They had a far better inside presence, far more success in the NBA playoffs (Mullin and Laettner excepted, although Laettner did win back-to-back NCAA titles), far more accomplished team players and arguably far better defensively. I just think that the fact that the Dream Team was mostly comprised of proven winners and champions gives them a huge edge over guys who have experienced less success as a part of a team.

  12. #287
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    The Dream team wasn't as good offensively as this one, but they were infinitely better offensively.

    It remains the greatest team ever assembled. They'd shred the modern day zones of the current teams.
    I think you mean they weren't as good "defensively" at this one, right? Because I think that the 1992 Dream Team was far better defensively. They boasted a far better interior core than this team defensively, I don't think any wing defender on this current team is fit to carry Jordan, Pippen or Stockton's underwear or even arguably Drexler's.

    Perhaps the presence of Mullin, Bird, Magic and Laettner make that team look a tad worse than it was. Barkley, I'm sure, also makes that team defensively look bad, except he was motivated and helpful in 1992 (and, at least by his own standards, he was "in shape" then). But I think the whole team defense on the 1992 squad is considerably better than this squad.

    I'm fairly biased on this account, because I think people are in the habit of greatly understating how great those players on that team were, and overstating how good players on this one are (and I have Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard and Carmelo Anthony firmly in mind as I say that).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    The Dream team wasn't as good offensively as this one, but they were infinitely better offensively.

    It remains the greatest team ever assembled. They'd shred the modern day zones of the current teams.

    I do not know if that is the greatest team ever assembled. It had great players but I would be interested to see this team play that team. The 1992 team played in an era where basketball did dot develop as much as it has internationally. Teams were in awe of them and did not even think about trying let alone winning.

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    Good to see Rubio not playing scared.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    USA up 61-45. Lebron's been an absolute beast so far.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 08-16-2008 at 11:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Boris do you understand why Carmelo is on the team now?

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    USA wins 119-82.

    Um yeah, I think the score pretty much speaks for itself, but it was Dream Team-esque.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    Boris do you understand why Carmelo is on the team now?
    Don't forget to give credit to his chauffer/designated driver.

    And no, I still don't think he's the best choice for that team - notwithstanding his performance at the FIBA Americas tournament (which was admittedly fantastic) or his one good game so far. And realistically, one game isn't going to change my mind (nor that of many people here who are probably as bewildered by his addition as I am).

    Does the USA have such a dearth of wing scoring that they need Carmelo Anthony? Or maybe he'd just look better if they left Kobe at home? I don't know the answer to that, frankly. But one of the two could have been left at home without being missed.

  19. #294

    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/4060...spana/cronica/

    In case anyone (Boris) has any doubts anymore, the Spanish media has a message for you:

    Por si alguien tenía alguna duda, Estados Unidos demostró que es la gran favorita al oro olímpico en baloncesto tras pasar por encima de la que se presenta como la gran alternativa, la selección española.

    In case anyone has doubts, the United States demonstrated that it is the great favorite to win basketball Olympic gold basketball against perhaps its greatest foe, the Spanish team.

    At this point, the collapse of the stadium and cancellation of the event or the US team somehow ending up in a Chinese prison might be the most likely ways they don't get the gold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoPacer View Post
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    http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/4060...spana/cronica/

    In case anyone (Boris) has any doubts anymore, the Spanish media has a message for you:

    Por si alguien tenía alguna duda, Estados Unidos demostró que es la gran favorita al oro olímpico en baloncesto tras pasar por encima de la que se presenta como la gran alternativa, la selección española.

    In case anyone has doubts, the United States demonstrated that it is the great favorite to win basketball Olympic gold basketball against perhaps its greatest foe, the Spanish team.

    At this point, the collapse of the stadium and cancellation of the event or the US team somehow ending up in a Chinese prison might be the most likely ways they don't get the gold.
    Hey, I'll give the US team credit: they beat a good Spanish team and a good Greek team. At this point, yes, I'd agree with that newspaper, the USA has proven it can rescue their team from Kobe Bryant's ghastly play even without a great frontcourt which makes them heavy favourites to win this. (And I'm mostly a Kobe fan, I'm not just hating because it's fashionable or "easy" for me.)

    I still think it's far from inconceivable that Greece or Spain steal a game from the USA, even Lithuania could beat them, but the odds seem more long than from when the tournament began. Spain's just a mess, I don't know what's going on there but they are not unified at all, and Greece just doesn't seem to have it. I was expecting big things from Russia, but I don't know what's happening there either. IMO, David Blatt is the best coach in this tournament by a fairly healthy margin but I can't explain Russia's collapse.

    What can I say? They've proven me wrong so far, and fairly convincingly.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    I don't get the Kobe hate (strong word, I know). Offensively he has been miserable, but his presence defensively has absolutely caused everyone else to raise their games on that end, IMO. Another thing Kobe gives us is the ability to bring Wade off the bench and this allows Wade to come in with all kinds of energy.

    I think the issue with Carmelo is you are looking at him like a wing player when IMO, that simply is not how he is being used by this team. Carmelo is a great player for us to put at the four next to Howard. He is able to spread the floor, but he is also strong and athletic enough to go inside and guard most other team's power forwards.

    I can't really say I'd swap anyone off the team at this point. At the start of the Olympics, I might have swapped Prince out, but he has played extremely well so far.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Spain just doesn't match up well with the US at all. Their style of play is exactly what American players are used to countering.

    Even when USA sent team disharmony to the 2004 olympics that lost 3 times, they still managed to knock Spain out.

    Spain loves to fire away and outscore people. You can't beat the US doing that, especially not this team.
    Last edited by Kstat; 08-16-2008 at 02:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    I think you mean they weren't as good "defensively" at this one, right? Because I think that the 1992 Dream Team was far better defensively. They boasted a far better interior core than this team defensively, I don't think any wing defender on this current team is fit to carry Jordan, Pippen or Stockton's underwear or even arguably Drexler's.

    Perhaps the presence of Mullin, Bird, Magic and Laettner make that team look a tad worse than it was. Barkley, I'm sure, also makes that team defensively look bad, except he was motivated and helpful in 1992 (and, at least by his own standards, he was "in shape" then). But I think the whole team defense on the 1992 squad is considerably better than this squad.

    I'm fairly biased on this account, because I think people are in the habit of greatly understating how great those players on that team were, and overstating how good players on this one are (and I have Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard and Carmelo Anthony firmly in mind as I say that).
    My take is that the 1992 team would in fact beat this team because it was simply assembled with winners. Magic, Larry, Stockton, and Jordan had a passing game and such versatile moves that they would find a way to outscore you. Larry was way past his prime, but as he said many times "I've got making up for a lack of speed down to a science" and so many of those guys had fast hands and great anticipation.

    Offensively the 1992 team was much, much better. I think it could be arguend that the 2008 team is better defensively. The real standout guys from the team were Pippen and Jordan... the original Dobermans. Some of the better defenders in the NBA at that time simply weren't on the squad.

    Any team can be beat in basketball on a given day, not to think so is naive. However, it would take the US playing it's worst and another team playing the game of their life to beat this team. We have been beaten in International Play enough to realize our vulnerability, particularly if we can't hit some outside shots.

    I agree that 1992 had that presence that froze people out, but it was still simply the greatest talent I have ever seen assembled. My only regret is that is wasn't assembled about 4 years earlier... now that would have been something to witness indeed. Bird, Magic, and Jordan in their prime... whew!
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    It was the best passing team ever. It really isn't even close. They were so much better at moving the ball than every other team I've ever seen.

    Not to mention it was the 2nd best shooting team ever assembled, after the 1994 team.

    With that caliber of passing and shooting on the same team, they would have destroyed anybody.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    I don't get the Kobe hate (strong word, I know). Offensively he has been miserable, but his presence defensively has absolutely caused everyone else to raise their games on that end, IMO. Another thing Kobe gives us is the ability to bring Wade off the bench and this allows Wade to come in with all kinds of energy.

    I think the issue with Carmelo is you are looking at him like a wing player when IMO, that simply is not how he is being used by this team. Carmelo is a great player for us to put at the four next to Howard. He is able to spread the floor, but he is also strong and athletic enough to go inside and guard most other team's power forwards.

    I can't really say I'd swap anyone off the team at this point. At the start of the Olympics, I might have swapped Prince out, but he has played extremely well so far.
    I don't think Kobe's defense has been that great, given that he plays with his head on a swivel, wanders around without regard to what the team needs, and is probably the worst off-ball defender on that team. His seeming effort has been top-notch, I'll admit that that has probably been inspirational, though; his actual quality defensively has been weak at best.

    I don't buy that coming off the bench gives Wade energy; I think being healthy at last and playing with great teammates is probably giving him that boost, but this is just the D-Wade of 2006 come back to life. I wouldn't give Kobe any more credit for that than I would giving him credit for the sun coming up in the east in the morning.

    There aren't really a lot of individual performances to date - Kobe's excepted, and Carmelo's up until the last game - that are really worthy of scorn; it's the issue of how well this team plays together. So far, they've managed to get it done but I think their lack of outside shooting coupled with mediocre post play could very well be their undoing.

    Realistically, a team that uses substitutions well to stop transition and gambles a little bit by jamming outlet passes instead of letting them go uncontested has a puncher's chance of beating this team. It would require some quick wing players and good post play and it would take a very good team to get that done. The USA obviously has some counters to that, like wing players who rebound and can handle the ball well, but basically a team that can disrupt the USA's transition attack can beat them. I still give Spain the best chance of doing that, but it'll be tough if they're too busy making slant-eyed faces and just shrugging off the criticism of it. But they're basically where the USA is at, just expecting teams to roll over for them - and that's just not going to happen, and at least the USA has the talent to maybe get away with that.

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