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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Olympic Basketball Thread

    I know we have a thread on this but I thought I'd get a new catch-all thread started for the Olympics.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/results?discId=7

    Basketball - Men's Basketball Standings
    Group A Wins Losses Pts
    Croatia 1 0 2
    Lithuania 1 0 2
    Russia 1 0 2
    Iran 0 1 1
    Argentina 0 1 1
    Australia 0 1 1
    Group B Wins Losses Pts
    Germany 1 0 2
    Spain 1 0 2
    United States of America 1 0 2
    Angola 0 1 1
    Greece 0 1 1
    China 0 1 1
    Basketball Schedule
    Date/TimeEvent
    Aug 9 9:00 PM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 1 (RUS vs IRI)
    Aug 9 11:15 PM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 1 (GER vs ANG)
    Aug 10 2:30 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 2 (ESP vs GRE)
    Aug 10 4:45 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 2 (LTU vs ARG)
    Aug 10 8:00 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 3 (AUS vs CRO)
    Aug 10 10:15 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 3 (USA vs CHN)
    Aug 11 9:00 PM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 4 (IRI vs LTU)
    Aug 11 11:15 PM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 5 (CRO vs RUS)
    Aug 12 2:30 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 4 (GRE vs GER)
    Aug 12 4:45 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 5 (CHN vs ESP)
    Aug 12 8:00 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 6 (ANG vs USA)
    Aug 12 10:15 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 6 (ARG vs AUS)
    Aug 13 9:00 PM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 7 (GER vs ESP)
    Aug 13 11:15 PM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 7 (AUS vs IRI)
    Aug 14 2:30 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 8 (ANG vs CHN)
    Aug 14 4:45 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 8 (LTU vs RUS)
    Aug 14 8:00 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 9 (USA vs GRE)
    Aug 14 10:15 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 9 (ARG vs CRO)
    Aug 15 9:00 PM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 10 (GRE vs ANG)
    Aug 15 11:15 PM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 10 (RUS vs AUS)
    Aug 16 2:30 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 11 (CRO vs LTU)
    Aug 16 4:45 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 12 (IRI vs ARG)
    Aug 16 8:00 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 11 (CHN vs GER)
    Aug 16 10:15 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 12 (ESP vs USA)
    Aug 17 9:00 PM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 13 (IRI vs CRO)
    Aug 17 11:15 PM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 14 (AUS vs LTU)
    Aug 18 2:30 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 13 (GRE vs CHN)
    Aug 18 4:45 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 14 (ANG vs ESP)
    Aug 18 8:00 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 15 (USA vs GER)
    Aug 18 10:15 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group A game 15 (ARG vs RUS)
    Aug 20 2:30 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Quarterfinal game 1
    Aug 20 4:45 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Quarterfinal game 2
    Aug 20 8:00 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Quarterfinal game 3
    Aug 20 10:15 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Quarterfinal game 4
    Aug 22 8:00 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Semifinal game 1
    Aug 22 10:15 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Semifinal game 2
    Aug 24 12:00 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Bronze medal game
    Aug 24 2:30 AM ETBasketball - Men's Basketball - Gold medal game
    Last edited by rexnom; 08-10-2008 at 12:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    China is currently playing the U.S. in the first night of games. Earlier Lithuania defeat Argentina and Spain defeated Greece, among other games.

    I caught the Greece-Spain game. Greece actually didn't play terribly, they just missed a lor of their threes and FTs, shots they usually make. They had some great penetration. What's so great about these two teams is that they probably have the two best guard rotations outside of the US.

    Calderon and Fernandez looked great. Rubio, not so much. The Greeks were easily able to pressure him. He seems very easy to push around and pressure and his ball-handling and passing looked reminiscent of Saras. In the second half, the Spanish coach took Calderon out and put Rubio in. The Greeks got two straight baskets off of pressure and rarely allowed him to get it across without great trouble. After a couple of minutes, their coach had had enough and Calderon came back in and put the game away.

    Marc Gasol just looked...big. He also looked a little overweight and out of shape. I don't know if he will have a lot of success in the NBA. Pau Gasol was taking it to the post and being an excellent force inside. He plays differently in international play - more physical. I like it.
    Last edited by rexnom; 08-10-2008 at 11:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    THAT CROATIA HAVING WON FIRST GAME WAS BEING FOREGONE CONCLUSION! STANKO MAKE ALL BASKET ATTEMPTING AND SHOW BOGUT WHAT REAL CENTER POSITION PLAYING BE!
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    I was a little surprised by Spain beating Greece as handily as they did in the first game. I'm not a huge fan of the Spaniards, but you have to love their mental approach following that game:
    "Fernandez warned everyone not to underestimate the Greeks.

    “Greece have proved they are one of the strongest teams here,” he said.

    “We are happy to have taken this win because it’s the first game. Now we need to rest and focus on China.”
    http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08/...one//repo.html

    Compare that to what I would perceive as being arrogance by the US team, and I'm thinking the likelihood of hearing the Star Spangled Banner at the podium is looking less and less likely.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Talking doesn't mean *****. We're winning the gold and everyone knows it...

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    I was a little surprised by Spain beating Greece as handily as they did in the first game. I'm not a huge fan of the Spaniards, but you have to love their mental approach following that game:

    http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08/...one//repo.html

    Compare that to what I would perceive as being arrogance by the US team, and I'm thinking the likelihood of hearing the Star Spangled Banner at the podium is looking less and less likely.
    LeBron just basically said the same thing (Rudy did). It's going to be very interesting to see Spain-U.S.
    Last edited by rexnom; 08-10-2008 at 12:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    it was interesting to Argentina lose this morning, I was actually still awake and watched the last 2 quarters, pretty good game

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    just watched the US-China game, easy win for the US but they better start making their trees and go with a bigger rotation when they come against the likes of Spain or it will become tricky...

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BKK View Post
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    just watched the US-China game, easy win for the US but they better start making their trees and go with a bigger rotation when they come against the likes of Spain or it will become tricky...
    Yeah, I'm actually a bit alarmed about that. I hope Coach K won't make the same mistake he did in 2006. However, when Bosh was out there, he looked outright dominant.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Dwayne Wade.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Not sure what American arrogance you're talking about Boris. This team has been very careful to not talk trash before the games and have been very involved in the whole Olympics, attending other events, going to the village, etc.

    As for the team, we don't have a bigger front line - Howard, Boozer & Bosh are it. There isn't another rotation. But we probably don't need it. We'll win this, if we do, with defense and ball pressure, creating turnovers and using that to make it an open floor game, etc. Wouldn't surprise me if we're outrebounded in the medal round but if we defend the way we can and push the tempo, we can still win.

    Vs China, this team doesn't look anything like the Athens team - great ball distribution and unselfishness (a bit too unselfish sometimes). Still didn't shoot for beans from 3 though - and that IS a concern though you'd think with Redd, Paul & Kobe we'll get better.
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    Not sure what American arrogance you're talking about Boris. This team has been very careful to not talk trash before the games and have been very involved in the whole Olympics, attending other events, going to the village, etc.

    As for the team, we don't have a bigger front line - Howard, Boozer & Bosh are it. There isn't another rotation. But we probably don't need it. We'll win this, if we do, with defense and ball pressure, creating turnovers and using that to make it an open floor game, etc. Wouldn't surprise me if we're outrebounded in the medal round but if we defend the way we can and push the tempo, we can still win.

    Vs China, this team doesn't look anything like the Athens team - great ball distribution and unselfishness (a bit too unselfish sometimes). Still didn't shoot for beans from 3 though - and that IS a concern though you'd think with Redd, Paul & Kobe we'll get better.
    I perfectly agree on the arrogance thing, I think they are much more humble than in the past, the simple fact to create a 3 year program and not gather some stars 3 days before tip off is IMO a great example of a renewed attitude towards international bball, FIBA and basically the rest of the world. They realized something was wrong and had to be changed and made it.

    And as far as the players are concerned you can see their involvement and how they embody the concept of respect that has been put forward.

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    Member BorisD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    Not sure what American arrogance you're talking about Boris. This team has been very careful to not talk trash before the games and have been very involved in the whole Olympics, attending other events, going to the village, etc.
    That's all great, but the American team is already pretending as though they're the favourites, and the simple fact is they're not. Both Bosh and LeBronze have already guaranteed that the US team is going to win gold, Krzyzewski can't even remember who the Greek team's point guard is (despite being a 2-time Euroleague MVP), calling him "#4", and I really doubt that the American organization is prepared at all for the challenge.

    The reality is, this is not a format that favours the favoured teams. 40 minutes of basketball to determine everything is not a long time and that limited time favours the underdog, especially when the favoured team doesn't know jack about its opponents. If this team thinks that the Greeks, Lithuanians, Argentinians, Spaniards and Russians are just going to roll over and take it, they're not: they've got the talent to compete and they're more prepared for international competition. The Spanish team have all been playing together since before they were teenagers, and the Americans are simply not prepared for that kind of team play. And the Greeks are just wildly aggressive, they'll bash and beat the Americans all over the place. Dwyane Wade will get bashed around so badly against them the Y will pop out of place and back to where it belongs. And I would argue that several teams have far better coaching staffs, the Russians in particular.
    As for the team, we don't have a bigger front line - Howard, Boozer & Bosh are it. There isn't another rotation. But we probably don't need it. We'll win this, if we do, with defense and ball pressure, creating turnovers and using that to make it an open floor game, etc. Wouldn't surprise me if we're outrebounded in the medal round but if we defend the way we can and push the tempo, we can still win.
    I think the pressure and overplay strategy is probably the right one for that team, but a lot of these teams have very gifted ballhandlers (the Greeks have 3 excellent point guards in Diamantidis, Papaloukas and Spanoulis) and I believe they are ready for pressure releases. The Spaniards are no less capable of handling the basketball and the Russians will be well prepared. The Lithuanians have a lot of big guards who probably won't be phased as much by the pressure.

    Basically, I think the other teams are far more prepared for the US team than the US team is for them. And I just don't see them winning, especially with the dearth of players who can make plays for themselves without the basketball.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    That's all great, but the American team is already pretending as though they're the favourites, and the simple fact is they're not.
    Yes they are.

    But why Tayshaun is on this team instead of, say, Mike Miller, I will never know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Yes they are.

    But why Tayshaun is on this team instead of, say, Mike Miller, I will never know.
    How can the USA be the favourite team in this tournament, when with largely the same team they have failed to even qualify for the gold medal game in the last Olympics or World Championships? Games are won on a basketball court, not on paper. The USA has almost no international success on its roster to speak of, and even in the NBA their entire roster has a grand total of 5 championship rings (3 of which belong to Kobe), and a bunch of lottery appearances between them. I think between the bunch of them they only have 2 NCAA titles, too. A bunch of winners this team is not.

    And why Tyson Chandler is not on this team and Carmelo Anthony is, I'll never know. The USA needs more ball-dominating scorers like we need another "CSI" franchise...

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    Compare that to what I would perceive as being arrogance by the US team, and I'm thinking the likelihood of hearing the Star Spangled Banner at the podium is looking less and less likely.
    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    That's all great, but the American team is already pretending as though they're the favourites, and the simple fact is they're not. Both Bosh and LeBronze have already guaranteed that the US team is going to win gold...and I really doubt that the American organization is prepared at all for the challenge.

    The Spanish team have all been playing together since before they were teenagers, and the Americans are simply not prepared for that kind of team play.

    And the Greeks are just wildly aggressive, they'll bash and beat the Americans all over the place.

    And I would argue that several teams have far better coaching staffs, the Russians in particular.

    Basically, I think the other teams are far more prepared for the US team than the US team is for them. And I just don't see them winning, especially with the dearth of players who can make plays for themselves without the basketball.
    Yeah, I have no idea where people are getting the idea that Boris thinks the Americans are going to lose. That clearly isn't his position. Between calling Kidd a wife beater and the repeated use of LeBronze it is clear his position is that we should be respectful of the other teams.
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    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    That's all great, but the American team is already pretending as though they're the favourites, and the simple fact is they're not. Both Bosh and LeBronze have already guaranteed that the US team is going to win gold, Krzyzewski can't even remember who the Greek team's point guard is (despite being a 2-time Euroleague MVP), calling him "#4", and I really doubt that the American organization is prepared at all for the challenge.

    The reality is, this is not a format that favours the favoured teams. 40 minutes of basketball to determine everything is not a long time and that limited time favours the underdog, especially when the favoured team doesn't know jack about its opponents. If this team thinks that the Greeks, Lithuanians, Argentinians, Spaniards and Russians are just going to roll over and take it, they're not: they've got the talent to compete and they're more prepared for international competition. The Spanish team have all been playing together since before they were teenagers, and the Americans are simply not prepared for that kind of team play. And the Greeks are just wildly aggressive, they'll bash and beat the Americans all over the place. Dwyane Wade will get bashed around so badly against them the Y will pop out of place and back to where it belongs. And I would argue that several teams have far better coaching staffs, the Russians in particular.

    I think the pressure and overplay strategy is probably the right one for that team, but a lot of these teams have very gifted ballhandlers (the Greeks have 3 excellent point guards in Diamantidis, Papaloukas and Spanoulis) and I believe they are ready for pressure releases. The Spaniards are no less capable of handling the basketball and the Russians will be well prepared. The Lithuanians have a lot of big guards who probably won't be phased as much by the pressure.

    Basically, I think the other teams are far more prepared for the US team than the US team is for them. And I just don't see them winning, especially with the dearth of players who can make plays for themselves without the basketball.
    I've been playing with some of my friends since I was in 6th grade. We would probably win if we laced up against Team USA because they couldn't handle that type of "team play." You act like the Americans just throw the ball out to Kobe or Lebron on the perimeter and isolate on every single play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    I've been playing with some of my friends since I was in 6th grade. We would probably win if we laced up against Team USA because they couldn't handle that type of "team play." You act like the Americans just throw the ball out to Kobe or Lebron on the perimeter and isolate on every single play.
    I'm not pretending that the Americans just play isolation ball (although when push comes to shove, that's what they will rely upon), and obviously there's a huge gap between you and your buds from 6th grade and the Spanish NT.

    What I am saying is that there is a point where even supremely athletic and talented individual play is going to have to bow the knee to team play. There's only one ball per game, and the Americans have a dearth of guys who can work without the ball. Obviously on paper they have the best bunch of players in this tournament by a huge margin, but that doesn't mean they have the best team. And their coaching is going to get worked over by better coaches, esp. David Blatt.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    That's all great, but the American team is already pretending as though they're the favourites, and the simple fact is they're not.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
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    That's all great, but the American team is already pretending as though they're the favourites, and the simple fact is they're not. Both Bosh and LeBronze have already guaranteed that the US team is going to win gold, Krzyzewski can't even remember who the Greek team's point guard is (despite being a 2-time Euroleague MVP), calling him "#4", and I really doubt that the American organization is prepared at all for the challenge.

    The reality is, this is not a format that favours the favoured teams. 40 minutes of basketball to determine everything is not a long time and that limited time favours the underdog, especially when the favoured team doesn't know jack about its opponents. If this team thinks that the Greeks, Lithuanians, Argentinians, Spaniards and Russians are just going to roll over and take it, they're not: they've got the talent to compete and they're more prepared for international competition. The Spanish team have all been playing together since before they were teenagers, and the Americans are simply not prepared for that kind of team play. And the Greeks are just wildly aggressive, they'll bash and beat the Americans all over the place. Dwyane Wade will get bashed around so badly against them the Y will pop out of place and back to where it belongs. And I would argue that several teams have far better coaching staffs, the Russians in particular.

    I think the pressure and overplay strategy is probably the right one for that team, but a lot of these teams have very gifted ballhandlers (the Greeks have 3 excellent point guards in Diamantidis, Papaloukas and Spanoulis) and I believe they are ready for pressure releases. The Spaniards are no less capable of handling the basketball and the Russians will be well prepared. The Lithuanians have a lot of big guards who probably won't be phased as much by the pressure.

    Basically, I think the other teams are far more prepared for the US team than the US team is for them. And I just don't see them winning, especially with the dearth of players who can make plays for themselves without the basketball.
    Everyone has opinions...it is just that some opinions are more valid than others...

    And this, my friends, is not a valid one.

    Arrogance? Seriously? Are you even watching the games or are you just regurgitating something you've read in a news rag?
    Last edited by Stryder; 08-10-2008 at 03:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    I liked the fact that in our game against China players were not arguing calls with the officials. I hope our team can stay focused.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    While I understand that team USA is going to be the hot topic on here, this thread is about the Olympics.

    So could we please refrain from the "USA rules" & "USA sucks" type posts on here?

    Thank you

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    I really liked the play of Bosh and Wade too. It was good to see Wade back at a high level after the horrible season he and the Heat had. And Bosh really worked his @ss off to get close to a double-double. But I really would have loved to see him paired with Dwight. I know it wasn't necessary since the Chinese bigs play away from the basket but they'll have to eventually play in that type of configuration and should prepare themselves. The French commentator sumed up the first half pretty good: if you like trees watch te red ones, if you like dunks watch the white ones
    the US remain the favorite to win it all of course especially if the non-factors of today (Bryant and Melo I would say) step up as they should

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    The Lithuanians were eaten alive by our pressure a week ago. I can also speak from first-hand observation that Sarunas struggles mightily with it.

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    Default Re: Olympic Basketball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    The Lithuanians were eaten alive by our pressure a week ago. I can also speak from first-hand observation that Sarunas struggles mightily with it.
    And they might struggle a second time with it, or they might not. While I do generally approve of the American "positive approach" (as John Wooden called it) of focusing on what you're doing and not so much what the other guy is doing, I think it has a severe drawback in this tournament.

    And really at this point I think Team USA needs to understand that there is a point at which superior athleticism must bow the knee to superior teamwork, so at the very least I want to see them challenged so much that they learn that they are not the be-all and end-all of basketball in the world (which they apparently haven't figured out yet), and that a collection of supremely talented one-on-one players interspersed with the odd point guard isn't necessarily a great team.

    That said, I want like hell for Spain to lose, too. Calderon's "six!" hand signal one a three point field goal is annoying beyond the telling of it.

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