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Thread: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

  1. #26
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    The Snow trade is the best one.
    I'd prefer the Lee/Rose one.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by 2minutes twowa View Post
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    Wow! He starts out with a "bold" statement. One that we've known on this board for months.

    After having a conversation with Pacers general manager David Morway on Tuesday morning, I strongly believe that Indiana will do everything within their power to trade Jamaal Tinsley prior to the 2008-09 season

    Tinsley will be traded, he has enough talent to play in this league. There are 2 things, however, that I think kills any potential trade.

    1. With an already overflowing lineup, I strongly doubt the Pacers do any deals that bring in more players than are going out.

    2. The only large salary contracts that will even be considered, are those that are expiring. For that reason, a deal for Diaw is highly unlikely.

    I still think Miami is where JT will end up. Not sure what the exact pieces will be, but both teams needs seem to match up nicely. Also, JT had some of his best games against Miami, so they know the skills he has.
    I don't think they'll limit themselves to expirings on large contracts. I would guess they'll take anything that either leaves them neutral (like a Gadzuric) or slightly better financially, regardless of talent involved. However, I think they'll be willing to take something longer with more money, provided two things:

    1. It doesn't put us over the tax this year, meaning that we won't take back more than an additional $1.9mm in salaries for the 08-09 season.

    2. They believe the player we get back will fill a hole on this team, and be a contributor to its success.

    A Tinsley/Williams for Diaw deal would keep us under the tax, however it's difficult to gauge whether the Pacers FO would think Diaw fit the second requirement. I, personally, am not a fan of Diaw. His numbers are not befitting of his contract, and I have always suspected that he gets a disproportionate amount of benefit from both the Phoenix system and Steve Nash. However, others whose opinion I respect note that Diaw's contributions don't always show up in the stats, and that he could be a very nice piece to our big man rotation. Therefore, I suppose it's a possibility, at least from our POV.

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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    if we could do the CLE or the NYK deal it'd be amazing. but it won't happen. no one is going to trade an exp. contract straight up for tinsley or a package like rose/lee for tinsley and shawne.
    Especially when the guy in charge of the other team has been around Tinsley for 7 years and knows everything about him.

    I don't think the Suns would ever do Diaw/Barbosa for Tinsley/Murphy + whatever else. Murphy does not fit them well at all and he makes a lot of $. I think the Suns would rather just keep Diaw and get something better in return for Barbosa alone rather than do that trade.

  4. #29
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by 2minutes twowa View Post
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    I have nothing against him personally or professionally. I just thought the article was a little dated. Maybe realgm waited too long to post it or I didn't notice it until now, but it's kinda old news that the Pacers will not buy out Tinsley or have him on the roster this year.
    I'm not sure that "dated" is really what happened here. I think Andrew was trying to put out some trade scenarios (which he clearly noted were his creation and not rumors), but the segue was a little unclear. I think he was trying to leverage the relatively recent interview with Morway, and it's pronouncement that they won't buy him out to start the article. I think what he meant was that the buyout was off the table, and the Pacers FO appeared confident that a trade would occur, so here are some ideas that he could see.

    Unfortunately, I think in an effort to be concise, he inadvertently edited himself down to a "Mr. Obvious" statement. This is why I never try to be concise.

  5. #30

    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    I have to believe that deals are on the table. With every pg that goes to Europe JTs stock rises. He did avg 8.5A last year that has to be playing on coaches/gms mind. Artest has been nearly problem free since going to Sac. so someone will take a chance for 2 years and have an expiring to trade if things don't work out.

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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by esabyrn333 View Post
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    [I][B][COLOR=navy]
    Is a Tinsley, Murphy, Williams for Diaw, Barbosa trade be realistic....

    I would love to have Barbosa on this team I really don't like eating Diaw's just to move Tinsley. This would also set us up to make another trade to thin out our guards....
    I don't see PHX taking Murph, but if you are set on Batbosa & Diaw, then here is an option they may consider (but would we?...):

    Tinsley/ Foster/ Williams/ Diener
    for
    Barbosa/ Diaw

    (I would prefer if Daniels & Foster were swapped, but I think PHX would want Foster.)

    WHY:
    PHX: Gets a b/u C/PF for shaq w/ an expiring deal, adds help @ PG, & youth. Sets them up to make a splash in '10 off-season. Only Amare, Tin's & Tucker would be the only roster players. Remember the splash PHX made last time when they had mega cap space!
    IN: Barbosa is b/u (& insurance beyond Jack & his expiring deal) @ PG & he can help @ SG. Diaw @ PF addresses a need, add's speed. Both fit the system & are versitile & young vets to add to out young core.

    PG: Ford/Barbosa/Jack
    SG: Dunleavy/Rush/ Graham
    SF: Granger/ Daniels
    PF: Murphy/Diaw/McRoberts/Baston
    C : Rasho/Hibbert

    My concern w/ this deal is the tax cap w/ Danny coming up. The key in my mind would be structuring things to survive till 2011 when Ford/Murph/ Dun all expire. Why put us in such a tight $ spot? I still question Fords long-term health. I just can't see him finishing that contract, which is why I want Barbosa w/ Diaw in a PHX deal.
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I don't know about the Orlando one, but I think I would do the rest.
    I would do that one aswell, without hesitation. Cook will offer salary relief next summer, even it's just a little, it's something. And Reddick... well we could try him out a bit. Doesn't address a need at all, but who knows, maybe add him to an expiring or something near the deadline in the winter to get something, I dunno.

    Anyway, I would absolutely do that one aswell.
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    I would at least consider all of those except for #4. But it's not a Redickulous thought.

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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    So why exactly would Donnie want Tinsley- and his contract - on the Knicks? Why would Larry trade for Snow - yet another point guard, when he already has 3 not counting Tinsley?

    The problem with these kind of articles is that it doesn't consider practicality in the least. This is not NBA Live, you're not trading with a formula coded into a program.
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    So why exactly would Donnie want Tinsley- and his contract - on the Knicks? Why would Larry trade for Snow - yet another point guard, when he already has 3 not counting Tinsley?

    The problem with these kind of articles is that it doesn't consider practicality in the least. This is not NBA Live, you're not trading with a formula coded into a program.
    If the Cavs called and offered Snow for Tinsley, Larry would say yes, hang
    up and kiss David Morway out of joy. That's a good bargain for us.

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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I don't think they'll limit themselves to expirings on large contracts. I would guess they'll take anything that either leaves them neutral (like a Gadzuric) or slightly better financially, regardless of talent involved. However, I think they'll be willing to take something longer with more money, provided two things:

    1. It doesn't put us over the tax this year, meaning that we won't take back more than an additional $1.9mm in salaries for the 08-09 season.

    2. They believe the player we get back will fill a hole on this team, and be a contributor to its success.


    A Tinsley/Williams for Diaw deal would keep us under the tax, however it's difficult to gauge whether the Pacers FO would think Diaw fit the second requirement. I, personally, am not a fan of Diaw. His numbers are not befitting of his contract, and I have always suspected that he gets a disproportionate amount of benefit from both the Phoenix system and Steve Nash. However, others whose opinion I respect note that Diaw's contributions don't always show up in the stats, and that he could be a very nice piece to our big man rotation. Therefore, I suppose it's a possibility, at least from our POV.
    Agreed. If they are offered a player that fills a need, especially long term, they won't mind paying the price. I just don't think they will be offered one.
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I'm not sure that "dated" is really what happened here. I think Andrew was trying to put out some trade scenarios (which he clearly noted were his creation and not rumors), but the segue was a little unclear. I think he was trying to leverage the relatively recent interview with Morway, and it's pronouncement that they won't buy him out to start the article. I think what he meant was that the buyout was off the table, and the Pacers FO appeared confident that a trade would occur, so here are some ideas that he could see.

    Unfortunately, I think in an effort to be concise, he inadvertently edited himself down to a "Mr. Obvious" statement. This is why I never try to be concise.
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    So why exactly would Donnie want Tinsley- and his contract - on the Knicks? Why would Larry trade for Snow - yet another point guard, when he already has 3 not counting Tinsley?
    snow = 1yr / $7.3mil
    tinsley = 3yr / $21.6mil

    snow wouldn't play for the pacers - he'd be bought out.


    as for why donnie would want tinsley and his contract: while the knicks are interested in dumping payroll for that oh-so-special free agent class, the reality of them trading jared jeffries for a smaller contract is as unlikely of us trading tinsley for an expiring contract (like rose.) what they might be interested in doing is trading jeffries obscene lack of talent/production for his contract for a guy that averaged 8.5apg. it is about the fact that the knicks have already spent that money on jeffries, so why not get more value for those spent dollars? i'm not saying they would feel this was worth it -- if they want a problematic starting PG they could just welcome starbury back.

    if your question was specifically why would donnie want tinsley's contract for rose and lee, you're right he wouldn't.
    Last edited by avoidingtheclowns; 08-07-2008 at 01:30 PM.
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Trade #4 is not a Redickulous thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I would at least consider all of those except for #4. But it's not a Redickulous thought.
    I'd like to nominate Shade for Most Original Poster of the Year.


    I think the Tins/Snow trade might make sense if Cleveland thinks Tinsley will help the team enough to keep LeBron happy as a Cav. Better win something soon. 2010 is the deadline.

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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Yeah, If Santa Claus showed up to my door and offered to trade a new Hummer H2 for my Subaru, it's a great deal for me right? Of course it is! Right? Until I think about the fact that I hate those gaudy pieces of trash, it doesn't do what I need out of a car, and frankly if he had offered Something more practical, I would have taken him up on it a lot more easily.

    A computer would tell me that the H2 is AWE-some and a bargain, but I'm a human being.

    Anyway, it was a rhetorical question. I know that Snow would be one heck of an improvement both financially and on a personnel level.

    My argument is that it isn't even plausible.

    Bird isn't looking for a PG. What makes snow attractive to us, makes him attractive to hold onto for CLE, so why do THEY do it? Snow could not possibly be thrilled to be the 3rd man down on the depth chart during a contract year.

    This thing is proposed as if human beings are not involved.

    It's ridiculous, and deserves to be in the laughable "Trade proposal" sub-forum.

    I want to trade Dunleavy for T-Mac, but I don't see that going down either. (Again, please don't waste time and look that up to "see if it would work", it's supposed to be rhetorical).
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by 2minutes twowa View Post
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    One of Count55's rules to live by: Never be concise. Got it
    And I think that everyone, if they were asked, and then they answered, the question, or a question, about whether or not, I, count55, held fast to my dictum to rarely, if ever, come quickly and briefly (as brevity is the soul of wit) to the point, the main theme, the thrust, of what I was trying to say, or, put simply, strove to be concise, they would most certainly, after some consideration and review of my post history, say that, though on occasion, I did lapse into quick, pointed responses, I, by and large, did live by the rule that we are talking about in this case.

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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    And I think that everyone, if they were asked, and then they answered, the question, or a question, about whether or not, I, count55, held fast to my dictum to rarely, if ever, come quickly and briefly (as brevity is the soul of wit) to the point, the main theme, the thrust, of what I was trying to say, or, put simply, strove to be concise, they would most certainly, after some consideration and review of my post history, say that, though on occasion, I did lapse into quick, pointed responses, I, by and large, did live by the rule that we are talking about in this case.
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    For those that want to take on Diaw....please explain to me why you would want to trade Tinsley for him. I understand the "he fits a need on the team while moving 2 for 1"....but my concern is how this would affect us financially.

    For me....I am with count55 on this....although there are certain requirements that I have in moving Tinsley.....I am not in favor of moving Tinsley "at all costs"...I am in favor of moving Tinsley as long as the trade does not hurt us financially or limit our ability to make future moves.

    Although trading for a Utility Forward that can play some spot minutes at Center is one of the requirements that I have for trading Tinsley.....I do not want a player with a Contract that is bigger ( Diaw's contract is 4 yrs/36 mil expring in the 2011-2012 season whereas Tinsley'e contract is 3 yrs/21mil expiring in the 2010-2011 season ). I would much rather buy out Tinsley then take on the additional $14mil more in guaranteed $$$ owed to a player that will likely play as a Backup Big Man for the foreseeable future that has been notorious for not playing up to his contract ( which should sound familiar to us Pacer fans ).

    We already have 2 existing long-term contracts that are near immoveable with Dunleavy/Murphy....why would we want to add another one that is not only worse....but has more years?

    Unless we thought that Diaw was the answer to our PF needs...which I do not feel he is...then I would not trade Tinsley for Diaw. Diaw, who has put up 9ppg/6rpg in 29 minutes, is not worth $9mil per year that he is paid.

    Unlike the situation that Murphleavy had where they were stuck in a system that did not fit their skills and subsequently improved....I feel that what we saw of Diaw in D'Antoni's system with the best "Pass-first" PG in the league is what we will see of Diaw under JO'Bs system with another solid "Pass-first" PG.

    I don't watch Diaw at all so there maybe some intangibles that do not show up inte Box Score.....but if there were "intangibles" that he possessed that would be worth having....then I would question why the Suns would want to move him in the first place and wonder why we would want him in our team. If they want to move him cuz he's simply overpaid for the amount of production that he has put up...then I wouldn't want him...even at the cost of moving Tinsley.
    Last edited by CableKC; 08-07-2008 at 03:24 PM.
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  19. #44
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Bird isn't looking for a PG.
    Bird would take a player at any position if their contract ended this year. As he should.

    Snow wouldn't be the third PG on the depth chart... he probably wouldn't make the team. We'd buy him out.
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by esabyrn333 View Post
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    Perna was on the Indy star board all the time and he is a very big pacer fan. [/COLOR][/I][/B]
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Indiana Trade Breakdown
    Change in Team Outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg.

    Incoming Players
    Jerome James
    7-1 C from Florida A&M
    No games yet played in 2007/08
    Outgoing Players
    Jamaal Tinsley
    6-1 PG from Iowa State
    No games yet played in 2007/08

  22. #47
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Getting an extra $7 million for next summer would be a no brainer. I'd do the Snow trade all day long.
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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    I really don't see why the Knicks would give us Rose and Lee for Tins and Shawne. Makes zero sense to me. Even if you operate that the idea that D'Antoni doesn't like Lee, they could still get something much more valuable than Tins for him.

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    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Bird would take a player at any position if their contract ended this year. As he should.

    Snow wouldn't be the third PG on the depth chart... he probably wouldn't make the team. We'd buy him out.
    OK, I'll stop talking about Bird. This point is taken and duly noted.

    Can someone even begin to explain why Cleveland (Santa Claus) would do this? Are they just dying to get their hands on an overpaid, long contract wielding, oft-injured, defensively liable, past-his-prime, negative headline grabbing, criminal lawyer paying point guard with a questionable work ethic?

    What's the advantage they are seeking here?
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  25. #50

    Default Re: RealGm.com Tinsley Trade Options

    I'd love to have Lee, but Walsh isn't about to make the trade.

    I could see the Cavs trade as doable with the Cavs needing a PG, and Bird would jump on that trade.

    The Heat trade I like b/c it fills a need, really 2 needs with getting rid of Tinsley. I just am not excited about having to give up a 09 1st to do it.

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