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Thread: Ben Gordon is Silly!

  1. #76
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    So no I would not pay Ben Gordon 12 million a year. Though I hear he might be able to go for 50 on any given night, but I won't believe that til I see him go for 40.
    Perfect. Absolutely.
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  2. #77
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    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    NSFW: Language

    [yt]HrfCixsd2N8[/yt]
    My point exactly.
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  3. #78
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    Anyways to the point at hand, it would be a very poor business decision to pay Ben Gordon 12 million a year for five or six years because his production will not match the value of the contract. Economically one could argue that he is then "worth" the 12 million because you paid it, but from a basketball/business/common sense perspective it is clear your money was spent on someone who is not matching the value that you had placed in them.

    So no I would not pay Ben Gordon 12 million a year. Though I hear he might be able to go for 50 on any given night, but I won't believe that til I see him go for 40.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Perfect. Absolutely.
    Yeah, I found that comment about 50 to be pretty damn silly, too, so I looked it up. Gordon has actually scored over 40 three times, including a career high of 48.

    However, that doesn't make the 50 point comment any less blatant hyperbole. There are very few players capable of putting up 50 points. Only three guys in the history of the Pacers have done it (Big Mac, Reg, JO). Looking at guys that wouldn't surprise you if they score 50, it's a lot rarer than you think. Kobe has only done it 23 times (or about 2.6% of his games). Allen Iverson only has 11 (1.3%). LeBron had done it 5 times (also 1.3%). BBR only has game stats back to 1986-87, so this misses the first 100 games of his career, but Michael Jordan only broke fifty 31 times (or about 3.1% of his games).

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Anthem, please. I am done discussing this with you. It is clear you as a few others here are in over your head.
    This is just embarrassing.

  4. #79
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    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Gordon has actually scored over 40 three times, including a career high of 48.
    None of which came in the last 12 months. I thought you were supposed to play better during a contract year?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    This is just embarrassing.
    Like fish in a barrel. Well, I'm happy to agree to his request and not discuss it any more.

    I don't know that there's any more to say in this thread until we discover that Ben either: A) caves and accepts what the Bulls offer, or B) decides to RFA it and hold out for a big payday next year, or C) sign somewhere in Europe.

    C would be a pretty good idea for him, actually, since he could probably be a superstar in Europe. His utter lack of defense wouldn't hurt him as badly, and the European rules would allow him to maximize his quickness and shooting. I'd never feel comfortable with him as an NBA starter, but he could probably dominate on the other side of the Atlantic.
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  5. #80
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    4 pages? The only thing sillier than Ben and Joe is this thread.

  6. #81
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    Did you just use the word "only" to describe Kobe's 23 fifty-point games?
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  7. #82
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Did you just use the word "only" to describe Kobe's 23 fifty-point games?
    If I inadvertently minimized the accomplishment, it was the opposite of my intention. By every measure, twenty-three 50-point games is an impressive accomplishment. Hell, my point is that one is a hell of an accomplishment.

    By "only", I was trying to point out that even something as impressive as Kobe's 23 times eclipsing the half-century mark is only a very, very small percentage of his games. If it's hard for Kobe (and Michael and AI and LeBron), it's kind of silly to act as if it's something we should expect Ben Gordon to do.

  8. #83
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    Now Tony Delk...that's a guy I'd give 12 million to...

  9. #84

    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    Speaking of 50 pt games, looking at it from a different perspective,
    I wonder what the win-loss record is in the last decade of the teams
    that had a player put up 50+ in a game ?

  10. #85
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
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    Speaking of 50 pt games, looking at it from a different perspective,
    I wonder what the win-loss record is in the last decade of the teams
    that had a player put up 50+ in a game ?
    Over the past ten seasons, teams have won 49 times when one of their players scores 50 points, while losing only 25 times, for a winning percentage of .662.

    Since the 1986-87 season (which is all of the data BBR.com has for the game finder), teams are 103-45 (.696) in games where one of their players has scored 50 or more points.

    Some other numbers:

    There have been 148 games where players have scored 50+ points since 1986. This reflects 0.6% of the games played, and 0.3% of the team games played. If you extrapolate assuming a rough guess of 18 players playing per night, you end up with 148 out of just under 448,000 player games, or the infinitessimal amount of 0.03% occurence rate.

    Only three of the 30 franchises have not had a 50-point scorer: Charlotte Bobcats, Memphis/Vancouver Grizzlies, Minnesota Timberwolves.

    Twenty-nine of the 30 franchises have had an opposing player score 50 or more, with only San Antonio avoiding that ignominy.

    There are six teams for whom having a player score 50 resulted in a 100% win rate. Three of those teams (Clippers, Hornets, & Raptors) had only one game each that qualified. Two others (Heat & your beloved Pacers) had two wins apiece. Utah was 4-0 in these games.

    Four teams have losing records when one of their players scores 50. Houston won once against two losses. Denver has only won once in four tries. Milwaukee lost the only two times one their guys reached this peak, and Sacramento lost the one and only time it happened to them.

    Of all of the teams that have given up 50+ games, only two have winning records. Sacramento won 3 of 5 where they let a guy get big numbers. There are 7 teams with .500 records in these contests, including your Pacers, who lost to MJ's Bulls in '87 when he scored 50, but beat Chris Webber's Kings in '01.

    Only six franchises have seen more than 5 of these 50+ games during this timeframe: Chicago (31 - 30 by MJ, 1 by Crawford), Lakers (26 - Kobe 23, Shaq 2, Cedric Ceballos 1), Sixers (12 - AI 10, Willie Burton and Dana Barros), Washington (8 - Arenas 3, Bernard King 2, Moses 1, Jordan 1, Tracy Murray 1), Atlanta (7 - 'Nique 6, SAR 1), Orlando (6 - TMac 4, Shaq 1, Nick Anderson 1)

    Fifty four different players have had 50+ point games during this stretch. For 33 of them, it was a one-time event. Another 11 players have done it twice. Shaq, Gilbert Arenas, and David Robinson have three apiece. Jordan leads all players with 31, Kobe next with 23, and Iverson rounds out the double-figure squad with 11. After that comes 'Nique with 6, LeBron with 5, and Karl Malone and T-Mac with four apiece.

    Thirty one of these players have a 100% winning percentage, with 22 of them winning in their only 50+ game (including Reg & JO). Karl Malone's 4-0 is the best record among these undefeated.

    An unlucky 13 players have lost on these occasions, but only Michael Redd and Hakeem Olajuwon have had more than one bite at the apple and came up short. Both lost twice. Another half-dozen went .500, with 'Nique's 3-3 being the most.

    AI only went 6-5 in his 50pters. Kobe has won 16 of his 23 games (.696), while Michael was .742 in his explosions (23-8).

    Ben Gordon still stands 0-0.

    (God, I love Basketball Reference.com.)

  11. #86
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    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    We are not freaking worthy.
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  12. #87
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    ...either he has a data mining application and 10 terabytes of basketball history, or he's making it all up. For some reason, I don't think he's making it up.

    These people are incredible and this site is amazing. T-Bird and Count55 need to get paid for their work.....no, I can't spare any right now...

    Edit: I can't even read...

  13. #88
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Fifty four different players have had 50+ point games during this stretch. For 33 of them, it was a one-time event. Another 11 players have done it twice. Shaq, Gilbert Arenas, and David Robinson have three apiece. Jordan leads all players with 31, Kobe next with 23, and Iverson rounds out the double-figure squad with 11. After that comes 'Nique with 6, LeBron with 5, and Karl Malone and T-Mac with four apiece.
    The fact that Dominique Wilkens wasn't in the original 50 at 50 is maybe the greatest tragedy in the history of the NBA. What a ******* joke. For shame.
    Last edited by JayRedd; 08-03-2008 at 11:14 AM.
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  14. #89

    Default Re: Ben Gordon is Silly!

    Count55-

    Appreciate the legwork. Wasn't expecting that. You da man !

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