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Thread: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

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    Default Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    Hello everyone! It feels good to have time to write again after a couple of weeks away from here.

    Tonight, I have three different topics all bouncing around in my head. Most of these things I haven't really been discussed much, especially lately, as we've been obsessed with Shawne Williams and Jamal Tinsley, and the dramas surrounding them. Instead of rehashing that same ground again tonight, I wanted to touch on some other, fresher topics. First up is the impressive Pacers leader and community icon, Jim Morris.

    I said at the forum party, and I believe even more strongly now, that by far our most important and most successful personnel move this summer will not end up being T.J. Ford, or Brandon Rush, or Roy Hibbert. Instead, an older professional gentleman named Jim Morris as our head of the business side of PS&E will end up being the best thing that has happened to us in years.

    It is hard to imagine any NBA team that has an executive as talented, well respected, as smart, and with the "gravitas" that we do now in Jim Morris. Morris has been a community activist in Indiana, the country and the world for many years, and his most recent job was to run the World Food Bank, which he did admirably for 5 years before coming back home to Indiana. Morris is so well respected and well thought of in many circles that, had he had the interest to have done so, he probably could have ran for Govenor a few years ago, and many were pushing for him to be named the President of Indiana University before the trustees named Michael McRobbie to replace Adam Herbert here in Bloomington. While Morris reportedly had no interest in politics, he supposedly deeply wanted the IU post.

    IU's loss is our Indiana Pacers gain. No one is as well thought of or as well connected in the sports and business world as Jim Morris, and as our new President of the business side of PS&E, I expect our profit from marketing and publicity efforts to expand and improve more than any of us can possibly imagine. Simply put, Jim Morris is a highly trained, super efficient businessman running our franchises financial operation the way it should be ran, instead of the more basketball/lawyerly Donnie Walsh.

    You already see huge differences in the openness and marketing ideas of this new visionary leader. The activities by the team at the Indy 500 in May, which were small but just the beginning of a culture change of how our beloved franchise does business. Sponsoring a car for the race, teaming up with the Colts to help Marion County schools, beginning to market Danny Granger's "human" side for the first time, all the positive Pacers press on local talk radio, the first in 15 years draft night party, the season ticket holders perks that are happening now (didnt I hear about a party for season ticket holders at Larry Bird's Nashville home?)......all are the beginning salvos into a long assault to eradicate the publics negative perception of the Pacers franchise from an off the court, salesman's point of view. The Pacers have needed a marketing genius for years and haven't had one.....now it is fair to say we may have one of the best in all of professional sports.

    Jim Morris is a visionary, a person who figures out how to solve problems before they BECOME problems, and his postive and classy leadership will get the Pacers back on solid footing, and soon we will be back at the top of the food chain as a well respected, well ran (from a business side) franchise. No one knows what other creative ideas we will get from Jim Morris, but you can bet they will be fan friendly, well thought out and concieved, and will work the way they are intended.

    Ill go ahead and make some predictions about some things that may happen from the desk of Jim Morris in the upcoming weeks:

    1. The announcement of a weekly "Pacers beat" television show that is broadcast every Sunday morning over local free television. Jim may even host or star in it himself, like Bill Polian does for the Colts.

    2. The presence of the Pacers at the Indiana State Fair. I have no idea what they may do, but I bet the Pacers make an appearance at the fairgrounds in August, in some shape or fashion.

    3. I think the Pacers may sell more radio stations the rights to broadcast our games to cover the entire state. To do this, he may need to get creative and take some short deals money wise, but to not do so will be penny wise and pound foolish. One of the single best things the Pacers can do to build their future is to make sure Mark Boyle and Slick Leonard can be heard all over the state on both the AM and FM dials.

    4. I think it is possible that the Pacers training camp practices may be, on some limited scale, be open to the public. Again, this will be Morris being visionary, and copying the NFL and Indianapolis Colts model. Thousands will descent upon Rose Hulman to watch the Colts work out, building a future fan base and marketing/ticket opportunities for a huge amount of young fans. Don't be surprised if the Pacers copy some of that this season, in some form or fashion.

    I'm sure Morris will have many many different ideas that I or no one else have thought of too, that he will study and implement to again make Conseco Fieldhouse the most exciting place to be in Indiana on a cold winter night. Singlehandledly, with the hiring of this extraordinary executive, I think the Simon's ended any worry on my part from the Pacers leaving Indianapolis anytime soon. And that my friends dwarfs any trade news or draft picks we could have made.



    .................................................. .................................................

    Moving on to draft night now.

    Trading Bayless and Diogu for Rush, Jack, McRoberts and cash is a move that has been discussed and analyzed over and over ad nauseum on this board for weeks now. I don't intend to discuss that move anymore in this thread, but instead I want to discuss a similar move we could have made with Portland instead, and see if it would have made us better in the eyes of this board. What if, instead of the trade we actually did make, we had made this move:

    Pacers trade #11 (Bayless) and Ike Diogu to Portland
    Portland trades us #13, #32, and Martell Webster.

    Adding Webster means we don't need Brandon Rush, so instead at #13 we (in my idea) PF/C Marresse Speights, from Florida.

    Adding Speights at #13 means we dont need Hibbert, so instead at #17 we take Mario Chalmers, PG from Kansas.

    By taking the #32 draft pick instead of the cash from Portland (I believe the Pacers had a choice and took the money, although I cant prove it), we could have taken Darrell Arthur, PF from Kansas.

    With the money we would have saved from not having Jarrett Jack's salary, we could sign my favorite wing man defender, Quinton Ross.

    Would doing the draft day trade like this instead of what actually happened been better or worse? I like Speights alot as you know, so that probably influences my opinion somewhat admittedly. Since I dont view Rush as the great defender the Pacers do, I like the idea of getting Webster instead of him. And I would have totally rather had the #32 pick instead of the amount of money (whatever it was) that Portland paid us.

    Your potential roster:
    PG Ford/Chalmers/Deiner/(Tinsley in limbo.)
    Wings: Granger/Dunleavy/Webster/Ross(Marquis Daniels in limbo)
    Bigs: Foster, Speights, Nesterovic, Arthur, Murphy, Baston(Williams in limbo)

    Is that better or worse than what we have now? I think its a bit better, with much more potential and upside, but Ill let you make the call.

    I think Portland would have done the deal with this structure too.....


    Feel free to discuss.

    .................................................. ..................................................

    Shawne Williams almost certainly wont be a Pacer when the season begins. Who is a possible suitor for him now?

    I'll go out on a limb and say we deal Shawne to a team like Atlanta. The Hawks make the most sense to me, as they need a cheap replacment to their front court after losing Josh Childress, and perhaps losing Josh Smith if they keep lowballing him. They have the room on their roster just to take Shawne and trade us nothing but cash and a future draft pick for him, which helps our salary situation and financial statement. We will probably get something like a conditional second rounder, or a right to swap places in the second round, or something like that.

    With his baggage, I think Shawne has lost all possibility of being used as a "sweetener" in a Tinsley deal, instead Shawne will just have to be dumped for salary relief and a relatively low cost future pick.

    Is that selling Shawne too low? I dont think so, not at this point......what other team in the league makes sense for Shawne? Anyone else a better fit than Atlanta?


    .................................................. .................................................. .

    Lastly, I wanted to commend this board for all the outstanding writing lately, particularly from some of our new posters. There are a huge number of high quality, intelligent writers who have joined us lately, and I won't even try to mention them all. I already thought this board had a very high IQ on most nights anyway, with great posters like UncleBuck, Peck, Naptown Seth, and so many more contributing regularly. But now, I think we have more smart, sensible, intelligent fans participating than we've ever had since I have been here, and I think that is a great thing to see.

    Even though I dont want to leave anyone out or make anyone upset by omitting one of our high quality newbies, there is one person I do want to mention by name. "Count55", I can't speak for anyone else, but I have really enjoyed your postings and contributions to the board. Not only in helping advance the knowledge of the game, but in doing so in a solid, intelligent, non condescending, and well spoken way. I commend you sir, and all the other new writers who continue to make this the best fan message board in the NBA.


    No matter what the topic, it appears that in every way, our proud Pacer franchise has its mojo back. Things are truly looking up, from the desk of Jim Morris to the keyboards and computer screens of Pacer nation.




    As always, the above is just my opinion.

    Tbird
    Last edited by thunderbird1245; 07-23-2008 at 10:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    great post as usual

    -that would have been an interesting deal on draft night. but i'm happy to have jack/rush/hibbert. i think bird wanted guys who could play defense and i just don't see webster or speights as good defenders and ross just isn't a long term solution me thinks.

    have the clippers even made an offer to ross????? i thought their roster was pretty thin

    -shawne to atlanta actually makes a lot of sense. you're right we wouldn't get much for him because he's made more news off the court than on the court.
    Last edited by mrknowname; 07-23-2008 at 10:17 PM.

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    When I was working for USA Track and Field I had the opportunity to meet and work with Jim Morris many times. A finer man you will never meet.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    Morris is truely a brilliant businessman. He is doing a great job so far, and I expect that to continue.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    I actually like what we received from Portland better than the proposed deal mentioned above. I think Jack and Chalmers may ultimately be a wash, and I like Rush better than Webster based upon what he brings defensively. I really wanted Speights, so that would have been cool. But Hibbert is probably a little better on the interior. What you suggested above is good, and either deal would have been an improvement from what we had going into the draft, but I like the actual deal a little better. You are spot on regarding Morris, and I would include Morway in that as well.

    As far as Shawne, I think you're underselling him a bit. On the surface, his incidents have been reatively minor, and I think the strong push to move him is due more to our hyper-sensitivity, moreso than the egregiousness of his actions. That said, I think Bird's comments have done as much to hurt his value as anything Shawne has actually done. Unfortunately, while his actions may be minor in nature, it is still something that cannot be afforded in our efforts to win back the fanbase.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    The only problem I see in your projected bigs T-bird is that none of them besides Nesterovic is a center. The team on the other hand makes sense in JOB's system but who is to say he makes it past their rookie contracts.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    Apparently there were some calls for Shawne. Not sure if that was a smoke screen.

    I suspect many teams are overlooking his recent issues and that his market value is actually a little higher.

    Edit: I do like your proposed deal a little better. I think it gives us a little more flexibility and meets our overall needs better.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    Great post yet again T-Bird...

    On Shawne Williams, I think his lack of accomplishment is what would net us very little, not the fact that he's been associated with off the court trouble. I think there's only one other team that looks at off the court incident in the same way we do. That would be the Trailblazers. Incidents like what Shawne has been through wouldn't make much, if any news in most other NBA cities. It only gets mention here and in Portland because there's a history of such. I believe people are looking at Williams the same way we looked at Brandon Rush.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    [quote=thunderbird1245;763390] Moving on to draft night now. Pacers trade #11 (Bayless) and Ike Diogu to Portland. Portland trades us #13, #32, and Martell Webster.

    I prefer the trade the way it was made.

    By taking the #32 draft pick instead of the cash from Portland (I believe the Pacers had a choice and took the money, although I cant prove it), we could have taken Darrell Arthur, PF from Kansas.

    The Pacers agreed to the Portland trade before the draft not knowing that Arthur was going to fall. They did try to get another pick. So in hindsight it would have been better to have had the pick.

    However if they had traded that way I'm sure what would have happened is they would have made the same picks, (Rush, Hibbert) but would have picked up Arthur too, and that I would have really liked.



    With his baggage, I think Shawne has lost all possibility of being used as a "sweetener" in a Tinsley deal, instead Shawne will just have to be dumped for salary relief and a relatively low cost future pick.

    Is that selling Shawne too low?

    I think so. I don't think he has baggage that would bother most teams.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
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    Adding Webster means we don't need Brandon Rush, so instead at #13 we (in my idea) PF/C Marresse Speights, from Florida.

    Adding Speights at #13 means we dont need Hibbert, so instead at #17 we take Mario Chalmers, PG from Kansas.

    By taking the #32 draft pick instead of the cash from Portland (I believe the Pacers had a choice and took the money, although I cant prove it), we could have taken Darrell Arthur, PF from Kansas.
    i like rush better than webster, if only because of his defense. so i don't think having webster necessarily rules rush out.

    nitpick - portland owned #33, not #32.

    the #33 wouldn't have gotten darell arthur, who was actually drafted #27. but it could have gotten chalmers or cdr.

    no argument, a portland package that includes #33 is a lot better than one that offered cash considerations.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
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    Pacers trade #11 (Bayless) and Ike Diogu to Portland
    Portland trades us #13, #32, and Martell Webster.

    Adding Webster means we don't need Brandon Rush, so instead at #13 we (in my idea) PF/C Marresse Speights, from Florida.

    Adding Speights at #13 means we dont need Hibbert, so instead at #17 we take Mario Chalmers, PG from Kansas.

    By taking the #32 draft pick instead of the cash from Portland (I believe the Pacers had a choice and took the money, although I cant prove it), we could have taken Darrell Arthur, PF from Kansas.
    I think it's fairly safe to say that Portland probably preferred giving the Pacers Jarrett Jack as opposed to giving them Webster and the #32. They have plenty of guys to fill the PG spot, so they didn't need Jack. On the other hand, they need Webster for his shooting ability.

    And as mentioned, the #32 would not have been high enough to get Arthur.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    I feel Williams has more value to teams than what T-Bird is giving, but I feel Bird's comments has been more detrimental to William's value than his offcourt issues.

    I still feel Philly is a team that could use Williams, and that the FA signing of Brand makes Speights expendable.

    If Philly loses Louis Williams, they will need a b/u PG, and Diener's contract matches up with Speights as well. "IF" Philly is still under the cap, they could trade Speights for Diener or Williams, and take the other by being under the cap. That gives them a b/u SF and PG. JMOAA

    If this would happen, all you IU lovers could then have your boy Calloway as the 3rd PG, and at a cheap price for the Pacers.
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 07-24-2008 at 03:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    I'm happy with Rush and Hibbert.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    As to the revised Portland trade, I would have taken it either way, but I am content with the way it played out.

    The obvious parts I like about T-Bird's scenario are getting Speights and Quinton Ross, a wing defender for whom I've also been clamoring.

    I think d c's point on the Blazer's preference to part with Jack instead of Webster could be true. We know that Jack has been rumored to be on the block since at least last summer and they have a wealth of PG options.

    Aside from that, I also agree with the sentiment of Wintermute in that, while both players are still arguably in the developmental stage, Rush MAY wind up being the better player than Webster in the long run when viewed from the all-around game standpoint.

    Chalmers upside may be Jarret Jack for all we know. So undoubtedly we'd have bought ourselves a bit more time and financial savings. On the other hand Jack is experienced and proven and, IMO, an excellent back up PG option. If we're unhappy with him for some reason we can opt not to resign him.

    Speights with great potential and a more obvious chance to replace JO's role. No Hibbert leaves us with Rasho and Foster manning the middle. Not bad, but I feel better about the chance to develop Hibbert and having more depth and perhaps the chance to play Foster more at his natural position, PF (assuming no more deals involving our big-man rotation).

    Back to Q, how the heck do we get him in here? What is going on between him and the Clips? I've heard absolutely nothing. I think that wing defender is a piece we absolutely need going forward. On the other hand, I also wonder about how a rotation would work given his addition to Dun, DG, Rush.

    And, of course, there's still the PF issue. I'll admit that I have given some thought to proposals elsewhere on the board for trying to swing some sort of Dunleavy-oriented deal for an S & t-ed Okafor. There's the durability issue and the price, both of which give me pause. However, bring in Okafor and Ross. Send out Dun, Shawne (in some deal or another), and whaterver other principals from our side. Think your defense would automatically be significantly better with those two additions. EDIT: But you seemingly cut down your legit offensive options down to one.
    Last edited by D-BONE; 07-24-2008 at 08:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    I can't speak personally of Jim Morris, but I do agree that the Pacers organization has appeared more professional this summer.

    Regarding the Portland trade, I liked Speights or Rush coming in, and I'm OK with Rush and Hibbert (though I might've taken Arthur instead of Hibbert). On the whole, I believe the deal doesn't happen without Brandon Rush. It does seem that he was our target. It will be interesting to see how Chalmers pans out comparative to Jarrett Jack.

    I think you probably have Shawne's value pegged, but Atlanta will have trouble making that trade without sending back salary. I'm not sure how cap holds work in trades, but if they are included in the calc (as I suspect they are), then Josh Smith's hold probably puts them at or over the cap.

    Finally, thank you for your thoughts. I'm proud (and a little embarrassed) that you feel that way. Truly praise from Caesar.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    I just don't see us drafting Chalmers at the 17. I prefer the deal that we got. I know that the players you mentioned would have really helped in this "system" and thus ease your thoughts on JOB not being the coach of the future. But we need defense. I think that is the most underrated asset of this "system". Chalmers would have struggled at the start of the season. And if Ford goes down, we have the same problem last year, a backup starting and a combo handling the ball too much. Chalmers might be as good as Jack, then again he might not. I love Speights and I was hoping that he would drop. But he did not. Bird was sold on Rush and Hibbert. The next 3 years will determine if he knows what he is doing.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I feel Williams has more value to teams than what T-Bird is giving, but I feel Bird's comments has been more detrimental to William's value than his offcourt issues.

    I still feel Philly is a team that could use Williams, and that the FA signing of Brand makes Speights expendable.

    If Philly loses Louis Williams, they will need a b/u PG, and Diener's contract matches up with Speights as well. "IF" Philly is still under the cap, they could trade Speights for Diener or Williams, and take the other by being under the cap. That gives them a b/u SF and PG. JMOAA

    If this would happen, all you IU lovers could then have your boy Calloway as the 3rd PG, and at a cheap price for the Pacers.
    Why does Philly need to do any of that?

    They have Thaddeus Young. What do they absolutely need Shawne Williams for? And Travis Diener isn't a replacement for anything if they lose Louis Williams (which they probably won't). By any chance they lose Williams, they could just sign a PG off the scrapheap that would be as good as Diener. They don't need to trade their 1st round pick to get Travis Diener, LOL.

    Speights is a very good bigman prospect who shows promise. They are in no hurry to trade him. If you draft a guy like that, you don't just trade for guys like Williams and Diener, who aren't exactly hard to find players. Brand, Dalembert and Speights potentially makes for a very good 3 man rotation up front. Speights has the size to play backup C with no problem. Why mess with that if you're Philly?

    As reported, the guy Philly is shopping around now with Brand now there is Jason Smith, not Speights.
    Last edited by d_c; 07-24-2008 at 10:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I can't speak personally of Jim Morris, but I do agree that the Pacers organization has appeared more professional this summer.
    An excellent point. The organization has seemed, in a word, organized.

    Tinsley's still on the team and we have the Williams' dust up to be handled so I think we have to wait and see how those play out before we can truly claim that we finally have a vision and direction.
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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    FYI: The Pacers have a bunch of community events planned in the coming months including some involvement at the State Fair

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Why does Philly need to do any of that?

    They have Thaddeus Young. What do they absolutely need Shawne Williams for? And Travis Diener isn't a replacement for anything if they lose Louis Williams (which they probably won't). By any chance they lose Williams, they could just sign a PG off the scrapheap that would be as good as Diener. They don't need to trade their 1st round pick to get Travis Diener, LOL.

    Speights is a very good bigman prospect who shows promise. They are in no hurry to trade him. If you draft a guy like that, you don't just trade for guys like Williams and Diener, who aren't exactly hard to find players. Brand, Dalembert and Speights potentially makes for a very good 3 man rotation up front. Speights has the size to play backup C with no problem. Why mess with that if you're Philly?

    As reported, the guy Philly is shopping around now with Brand now there is Jason Smith, not Speights.
    Excellent post.

    I think Atlanta might have a little interest considering they lost Childress and are probably going to lose Josh Smith too but I'm not sure how much interest they'll have.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Why does Philly need to do any of that?

    They have Thaddeus Young. What do they absolutely need Shawne Williams for? And Travis Diener isn't a replacement for anything if they lose Louis Williams (which they probably won't). By any chance they lose Williams, they could just sign a PG off the scrapheap that would be as good as Diener. They don't need to trade their 1st round pick to get Travis Diener, LOL.

    Speights is a very good bigman prospect who shows promise. They are in no hurry to trade him. If you draft a guy like that, you don't just trade for guys like Williams and Diener, who aren't exactly hard to find players. Brand, Dalembert and Speights potentially makes for a very good 3 man rotation up front. Speights has the size to play backup C with no problem. Why mess with that if you're Philly?

    As reported, the guy Philly is shopping around now with Brand now there is Jason Smith, not Speights.
    i could see philly being interested in shawne and travis. they need outside shooting and depth. lou (if they re-sign) is only a PG in size not ability so they could use another more traditional PG as a third stringer. they could use a big wing like shawne that has 3pt ability.

    but you're right in that wouldn't be enough for speights much less the 1st.
    Last edited by avoidingtheclowns; 07-24-2008 at 10:55 AM.
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  22. #22
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    I have real mixed thoughts on just getting rid of Shawne Williams. Mainly because I think he has some real talent - not saying he's going to be a star player or an allstar player, but he has some offensive talent. If in the right situation, I could easily see him averaging 20 pts per game. There is no reason he can't be a pretty good defender also.

    I'm not suggesting that talent should overshadow his off court trouble (which I think pales in comparison to JT, Jax, or Artest) but I think he could be salvagable.

    I would understand however if the Pacers just want to trade him - as they try to turn public opinion around. On the court though, we'll regret it

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    As for other possible destination for Shawne ( TBird would like this ), we can do a S&T of Quinton Ross for Shawne.

    It looks like the Clippers may not resign him...with a future SG rotation of Mobley and Gordon and may have a greater need for some SF depth to backup Thornton....it may not be a bad idea to offer Shawne up to the Clippers to get hiim.

    For the Clippers....at worst...Shawne would be a 1 year rental at $1.5 mil. He obviously hasn't hit his ceiling yet....some of it his fault and some due to being stuck behind Granger and Dunleavy over the last 1.5 seasons. If he doesn't pan out...then the Clips can choose to not pick up his Team option and they are free and clear by next season. To me...it's a low-risk/high reward trade for the Clippers....especially if they choose not to resign Ross.

    Moving Shawne would not only free us up from the PR issues....it would move Brandon further up the GF rotation where he could be playing next to or ahead of Ross in the backup GF rotation behind Granger and Dunleavy. At the very least.....it would guarantee that Brandon has some solid and consistent minutes in his rookie year...something that I really want....ESPECIALLY if it really looks like Shawne is on "thin ice".

    Unfortunately...if there is anytime to try to get Ross.....it would have been 3 weeks ago when Shawne wasn't in PR trouble....but I can see teams like the Celtics ( who lost Posey ) and the Mavs ( who could lose Devean George to the Celtics ) have a need for a roleplaying Perimeter defender like Ross. If we can get him for 1.5-2 mil....I really would wish that we can make a move for Ross....even at a cost of losing Shawne and all the potential that he may have. I know that many may balk at having a roleplayer that literally does nothing more then defend....but I really think that a player like Ross...paid about 1.5 to 2 mil a season....can make a big difference on this team. At the rate that he would be paid...he's good enough to warrant 3rd ( when we need some defense ) / 4th GF minutes. I know that he may seem redundant with Brandon and his defense....but really....the more perimeter defenders that we have...the better.
    Last edited by CableKC; 07-24-2008 at 12:58 PM.
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  24. #24
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    I wish more would be said about Morris, and from that P.O.V. I'm disappointed it's become all about Shawne in most of the responses.

    This guy comes across as very impressive, and the little and not so little things he's done so far have looked good. I hope he's here for years to come.

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    Default Re: Praising Jim Morris, reliving draft night, a destination for Shawne Williams, and the high quality of writing lately on Pacers digest

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    If in the right situation, I could easily see him averaging 20 pts per game.
    Averaging 20? Wow. No way.

    Guys that have averaged 20ppg during the Pacers NBA era (41 games minimum):

    Billy Knight, 76-77
    Clark Kellogg, 82-83
    Chuck Person, 88-89
    Reggie Miller, 89-90, 90-91, 91-92, 92-93, 95-96, The Season We Do Not Discuss
    Jalen Rose, 00-01
    Jermaine O'Neal, 02-03, 03-04, 04-05.

    When everything goes well, Shawne can have the occasional 20-point game.

    There's no way I see him averaging close to twenty a game.
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    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
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