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Thread: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

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    Default 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Heres a couple questions for everyone;

    Who will be feared more by their old teams,TJ returning to Toronto likely matchup being TJ vs Jose Calderon. Who will win that matchup?.

    Or will JO be more feared returning against his former team in Indiana,Likely matchup JO vs Hibbert. Who will win that matchup?


    And heres the last questions,Who will have the better stat line in their first game against their former teams,TJ or JO?.
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    Agreed. As the members of Guns and Roses once said, "every rose has its thorn".

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Hard to compare stat lines of PGs and Cs.

    If JO is healthy, he is a former MVP candidate with an awesome post game and excellent interior defense, playing against a rookie, or God-forbid Foster or Murphy.

    If Ford is healthy, he is a guy who keeps getting benched and subsequently traded in favor of the backup.

    With all that, I expect Jarret Jack to have the best stat line in matchups this season between IND/TOR.

    The next best stat line will the Pacers improved salary cap flexibility as Rasho and then TJ Ford come off the payroll.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Thumbs down Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    If Ford is healthy, he is a guy who keeps getting benched and subsequently traded in favor of the backup.

    ......

    The next best stat line will the Pacers improved salary cap flexibility as Rasho and then TJ Ford come off the payroll.


    Or put another way: I completely disagree.

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    JO will have a better stat line that Ford.

    The trade was a good move for the Pacers, anyway.
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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    If Ford is healthy, he is a guy who keeps getting benched and subsequently traded in favor of the backup.

    I have a feeling some members of this forum will be eating their words big time when the season starts.

    Its just a feeling...
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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    If JO is healthy, he is a former MVP candidate with an awesome post game and excellent interior defense,
    My goodness, you are delusional. He's washed up and he has been for a couple years. And, he has no clue about how to properly play the game.

    Hakeen Olajuwon, Bill Walton, and Bill Russell are former MVPs. Do you think they'd be a big threat if they came back and played a game against the Pacers?

    "Awesome post game"!!!??? Are you kidding me? Even at his best he didn't have much of a post game. He was more of a face-up scorer.

    So my answer to the question in the original post is that TJ Ford has a zillion times better chance to hurt his former team.

  7. #7

    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    The question is if JO would even make it to the game to show up his former team.

    Same goes for TJ too, I guess, but there's a higher chance that he would.

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
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    Heres a couple questions for everyone;

    Who will be feared more by their old teams,TJ returning to Toronto likely matchup being TJ vs Jose Calderon. Who will win that matchup?.

    Or will JO be more feared returning against his former team in Indiana,Likely matchup JO vs Hibbert. Who will win that matchup?


    And heres the last questions,Who will have the better stat line in their first game against their former teams,TJ or JO?.
    I think the only one of those 4 guys you mention has any emotion involved in the individual sense, and that's TJ. He was treated absolutely terribly by the fans and media in Toronto (after being ECSTATIC to be traded there), he was booed when introduced in the starting lineups - it was awful. To most of us, a guy who comes back to play his hardest after nearly having his neck snapped for a 3rd time deserves applause, but not to the moronic fans of Toronto, who are now stuck with their beloved Hose B as their one and only.

    TJ will destroy Jose Calderon. Calderon probably won't care about the one-on-one aspect of it, and TJ will probably care more about winning than torching Calderon - but torch him he will. Plus, deciding a one-on-one matchup with a guy like Calderon is almost impossible. Jose plays a style whereby he does nothing unless he's certain it will succeed, so he does a lot of ridiculous things that don't show up on a stat sheet. He routinely pulls out of 3-on-2 fast breaks for fear of commiting a turnover, he only shoots when he's wide open, and makes only totally uncontested passes, mostly to Bosh. TJ doesn't do any of those things, takes more difficult shots (and thus at a lower percentage - although he is really weak at finishing at the rim), makes more difficult plays. He's far less efficient, but probably makes his teammates far better.

    Calderon can't play a lick of defense and TJ will show everybody in the country that they kept the wrong PG.

    JOw will still be JOw: he'll take enough shots as necessary to get his 20 points, and probably not all that efficiently. He probably won't care about the one-on-one matchup, either.

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Munson View Post
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    My goodness, you are delusional. He's washed up and he has been for a couple years. And, he has no clue about how to properly play the game.
    I said "if". I don't believe a 29/30 year old is washed up. I don't know if he's got an 82-game season in him, but that's not the same thing.

    Hakeen Olajuwon, Bill Walton, and Bill Russell are former MVPs. Do you think they'd be a big threat if they came back and played a game against the Pacers?
    Hakeem, probably. Walton, not with the bad feet. Russell, nah he's too old. He probably would have outrebounded Smits if he had made a comeback in the 1990s, though.

    "Awesome post game"!!!??? Are you kidding me? Even at his best he didn't have much of a post game. He was more of a face-up scorer.
    No way. From the left block, he had a spin move to die for, and a few other moves as well.

    So my answer to the question in the original post is that TJ Ford has a zillion times better chance to hurt his former team.
    I'm not convinced TJ Ford is anything more than an undersized lightning quick first step to the basket. I'll need to see him prove to me that he's not just Travis Best 2.0. I haven't watched him play enough to be convinced that he can run the team. Same for Jack. So there is some admittedly some hyperbole there because I don't think anyone make predict until training camp starts who will win that head-to-head matchup. As I understand it, neither player finished last season as his team's starter.

    I understand why we have two new PGs. Neither player can run the team like Tinsley, but unlike Tinsley, hopefully at least one of these guys can be counted on to show up and play every night.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    I have a feeling some members of this forum will be eating their words big time when the season starts.

    Its just a feeling...
    Nope, just me. I don't think anyone else is joining me out here on this limb. Pardon me for not joining the TJ Ford bandwagon until I see a reason to do so. I haven't watched him much, because other than quickness I haven't found much that I wanted to watch. From what I have seen, he looks too much like Travis Best 2.0 to me and I'm not crazy about that.

    If he proves me wrong, it won't be the first time and it won't be the last. I can live with that.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I'm not convinced TJ Ford is anything more than an undersized lightning quick first step to the basket. I'll need to see him prove to me that he's not just Travis Best 2.0. I haven't watched him play enough to be convinced that he can run the team.
    Go back and look at Toronto's play in 2006-7 when Bosh was hurt. At that point, Toronto had started...3-9, I think, and everybody was ready to blow up the whole team. No Bosh, everybody assumed the worst - and TJ led a Bosh-less team to a 6-6 record over the next 12 games and single-handedly turned Toronto's season around.

    TJ's still getting better, but let me assure Indiana fans that TJ is a winner and if you can just get him 33, 34 mpg you'll be ecstatic with the find you guys got in him.

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
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    Heres a couple questions for everyone;

    Who will be feared more by their old teams,TJ returning to Toronto likely matchup being TJ vs Jose Calderon. Who will win that matchup?.

    Or will JO be more feared returning against his former team in Indiana,Likely matchup JO vs Hibbert. Who will win that matchup?


    And heres the last questions,Who will have the better stat line in their first game against their former teams,TJ or JO?.
    Going off of the Statlines of each player seems like a very simplistic way to figure out which team came out better in the end on this trade.

    Honestly...I could care less who put up more points against their former teams....I just want the Pacers to win the game with TJ and Hibbert doing what they were brought in to do....defend the paint and create for others.
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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Nope, just me. I don't think anyone else is joining me out here on this limb. Pardon me for not joining the TJ Ford bandwagon until I see a reason to do so. I haven't watched him much, because other than quickness I haven't found much that I wanted to watch. From what I have seen, he looks too much like Travis Best 2.0 to me and I'm not crazy about that.

    If he proves me wrong, it won't be the first time and it won't be the last. I can live with that.
    Ford has Mark Jackson-like passing ability.

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Landry View Post
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    Ford has Mark Jackson-like passing ability.
    This assertion is so unbelievably and incredibly off-base from reality that I cannot form an adequate response.

    And don't worry, ChiJ...I don't think TJ is very good either.
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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    And don't worry, ChiJ...I don't think TJ is very good either.
    "Not very good"? He put up an offensive rating of 109 pp100p on 27%+ usage last year, alongside teammates who were either struggling epically (Bargnani), often hurt (Bosh), out of shape and disinterested (Parker), sucked offensively (Moon) or didn't get much chance to play (Kapono). And Toronto - despite all those problems - finished tied for 9th for the year in offensive efficiency. Ford obviously was a positive contributor in that regard.

    And, despite the amount of time he spent with the ball, still finished 8th in the NBA in assist-turnover ratio.

    Ford is quite good. You guys did just fine in that trade.

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Nope, just me. I don't think anyone else is joining me out here on this limb. Pardon me for not joining the TJ Ford bandwagon until I see a reason to do so. I haven't watched him much, because other than quickness I haven't found much that I wanted to watch. From what I have seen, he looks too much like Travis Best 2.0 to me and I'm not crazy about that.

    If he proves me wrong, it won't be the first time and it won't be the last. I can live with that.
    Ford is a true PG. Best was an undersized shooting gaurd. That makes a huge difference when comparing them.

    He averaged 6 assists in 24 minutes per. At starter minutes he should be at least an 8 or 9 assist guy, especially in obie's system.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 07-21-2008 at 08:43 PM.
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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    tj will probably be playing with a huge chip on his shoulder against toronto and caledron is no match defensively against ford.

    i think rasho can play solid defense on JO and frustrate him, thats if he guards him.

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    JO will have better numbers because that's all he cares about. If he plays, that is.
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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Ford is about as pure a point guard as a point guard can get. That he also has the ability to score doesn't change that. An average of 6 assists in 23 minutes and 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio speaks for itself.

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    tj might not be as flashy as jackson, but he's still a great passer regardless

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Feared more by old team? I would expect Tj to toast Calderon a lot more often the JO toasts Foster

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Watching that made me realize how important it is for your teammates to catch the ball instead of acting surprised and fumbling it away...

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

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    Default Re: 2 questions for everyone about JO/TJ

    I want to see Jamaal take over games in Phoenix when he is traded to the Suns.
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