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Thread: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1062/SPORTS04

    Pacers aren't done with trade market
    Team hopes to gain power forward, deal Tinsley before next season

    By Mike Wells

    The Indiana Pacers began introducing new players Tuesday.

    Team president Larry Bird said he isn't finished remaking the roster, however.

    Bird said he hopes to trade for or sign a power forward and is confident he can trade point guard Jamaal Tinsley.

    "As we made deals, we knew we were probably going to have an area that we needed to still address, and right now it's a power forward that can score down low," Bird said after Roy Hibbert and Brandon Rush -- two of the seven players the team acquired through trade -- were introduced. "Hopefully we're not done this summer."

    The Pacers have 16 players under contract -- one over the maximum allowed during the season. Team officials said they can fill the hole at power forward through a trade because the Pacers have expiring contracts and a $2.7 million trade exception to offer teams. The Pacers also have their mid-level exception, which is about $5.9 million, to spend on a free agent. Bird said he will probably use only part of the exception if the Pacers use it at all.

    "There's different ways we can take care of our needs," general manager David Morway said. "I think at this point, we're looking at the trade market at the moment."

    The Pacers tried to solve both issues in one deal by offering Tinsley to Miami for power forward Udonis Haslem, but the Heat are reluctant to give up Haslem.

    "We're talking to some teams, but it depends on if they are going to make the decision or not," Bird said. "We'll see where it goes."

    Pacers officials said they expect to be able to trade Tinsley because 10 or 12 teams need a point guard. How soon that happens might depend on whether the Memphis Grizzlies trade one of their three young point guards -- Mike Conley Jr., Kyle Lowry or Javaris Crittenton.

    Teams looking for a point guard might prefer to acquire one of the young Grizzlies.

    Bird said Tinsley has lost weight and has passed physical tests by team trainers.

    "It was obvious after the trades they made that they are trying to reshape the team, and we understand that," Tinsley's agent, Raymond Brothers, said. "We have a lot of respect for Larry Bird and David Morway because they have treated (Tinsley) well. David continues to check on him on a weekly basis."

    Call Star reporter Mike Wells at (317) 444-6053.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    If Bird could have pulled off the JT for Haslem trade, I would have never criticized Bird ever again for as long as I lived.

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsi...oing_over.html

    Not going over the luxury tax
    Posted by Mike Wells

    I had a chance to catch up with Pacers Larry Bird about a couple things after the press conference Tuesday afternoon.

    Bird said he doesn't expect the Pacers to go over the $71.150 million luxury tax.

    The Pacers are in the midst of trying to trade point guard Jamaal Tinsley and acquire a power forward while also watching their money.

    "We're up around $69 million right now and we don't want to go over the tax," Bird said. "You always like to save some money, but the thing is, our owners are not going to save money and not have a productive team out there, especially when we did the deals we did this summer. I think it's being able to move some pieces to get the type of player we want at (power forward)."

    What the Pacers have in their favor is that there are several teams that need a point guard. Miami, Golden State and Cleveland are teams that come to mind right away. It's just a matter if those teams are willing to take on the remaining three years of Tinsley's contract and his injury problems.

    Bird and general manager David Morway are actively working the phones trying to make a deal, but Bird said they aren't willing to give up any of their core players.

    "We're not going to compromise some of our good players or our future," he said. "I can't say our roster is set because there are some things we're trying to do. "
    all i can say is, bird and morway both seem very confident they can move tinsley.

    and i don't think any pf we can acquire with the pieces we're offering will be very good. haslem isn't too bad though, but i guess the heat aren't that desperate yet.
    Last edited by wintermute; 07-16-2008 at 09:00 AM.

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    I would welcome a Tinsley for Haslem trade. And then Riley would be welcomed into his new home in the insane asylum.
    "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsi...oing_over.html



    all i can say is, bird and morway both seem very confident they can move tinsley.

    and i don't think any pf we can acquire with the pieces we're offering will be very good. haslem isn't too bad though, but i guess the heat aren't that desperate yet.
    I think Crit from the Grizzz will go to Miami. Theyre seriously considering a trade for him. But if we can package a deal for Haslem, that would be amazing:

    Ford/Jack
    Dunleavy/Rush
    Granger/Williams
    Haslem/Rasho
    Murphy/Hibbert

    looks good

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Holy crap yeah, Tinsley for Haslem would be great. Do it, LB

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoddage View Post
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    Holy crap yeah, Tinsley for Haslem would be great. Do it, LB
    Tinsley + 2nd rounder for Haslem...

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/feature...4~11&te=&cash=

    they make the same about of money but Haslem has one year less on his contract

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Bird said Tinsley has lost weight and has passed physical tests by team trainers.
    Ok, this could be a flat-out lie... but I doubt it.

    So... to everyone who gave me crap about not believing Tinsley had gained 40 pounds and was done with basketball... your thoughts?
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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoddage View Post
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    Holy crap yeah, Tinsley for Haslem would be great. Do it, LB
    The problem isn't that Bird won't do it. The problem is that Miami won't.
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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Ok, this could be a flat-out lie... but I doubt it.

    So... to everyone who gave me crap about not believing Tinsley had gained 40 pounds and was done with basketball... your thoughts?
    Now he's only up 38 lbs.......
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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Even if they have no offers and trading prospects are dim, at least they're sticking to trading JT vs. buying him out, which is great if they ever hope to actually trade him.

    That sounds redundant, but it makes a world of difference.

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Ok, this could be a flat-out lie... but I doubt it.

    So... to everyone who gave me crap about not believing Tinsley had gained 40 pounds and was done with basketball... your thoughts?
    i think those were just speculations. For sure he didnt gain and lose 40 pounds already. I dont know who said that Tinsley gained 40 lbs but the only place I read it was here. If Bird says he passed physicals then i guess its true, hes the most crediable source.

    Bottom line, Tinsley isnt going to be a Pacers this season. If this means a trade or a buyout....hes gone

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    2.7 trade exception, helpful.

    Mid level exception helpful.

    expiring contracts helpful.

    He does have the makings of a trade there, so its not inconceiveable. I'd rather use Marquis expiring contract, if any, at this moment.

    You could also us Maceos contract as expiring with the 2.7 exception and take on a player for around 5 million.

    If they really can move Tinsley they'd still be under the luxury, or if they buy him out, I still think they would be JUST under it.

    I've changed my mind on moving Foster, I want him to retire a Pacer. He is everything you want as a Pacer.

    What low post type player can you get? I really can't think of any off the top of my head.

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    The problem isn't that Bird won't do it. The problem is that Miami won't.
    Oh, I know... but Bird needs to be aggressive with it. If that means advertising Tins to be a point God, he's gotta do it.

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Ok, this could be a flat-out lie... but I doubt it.

    So... to everyone who gave me crap about not believing Tinsley had gained 40 pounds and was done with basketball... your thoughts?
    He gained wait from April until _____, and is now getting rid of it.

    Also, no one said 40 pounds, and if they did, they're lying. It was supposedly 25lbs.

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    I used to really hate Bird and thought he was an idiot. Now I'm really not so sure at all and after DW retired I was ready to give him a clean slate.

    He finally traded JO which was something that needed to happen for oh, just about DW's last three years with the team. And Bird was able to pull it off right at the start of his first offseason in control when JO's value was lower than it was any time during DW's tenure. I also thought that the Rush trade was probably a great deal for our team as well. It was something very aggressive that Donnie would not have done.

    I am not a big fan of Udonis Haslem but if Bird traded Tinsley for Haslem, then I'd have full confidence in him as our President.

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    You could also us Maceos contract as expiring with the 2.7 exception and take on a player for around 5 million.
    If I remember correctly (from the days of the Peja/Harrington deals) you cannot combine as exception with a player.

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    "It was obvious after the trades they made that they are trying to reshape the team, and we understand that," Tinsley's agent, Raymond Brothers, said. "We have a lot of respect for Larry Bird and David Morway because they have treated (Tinsley) well. David continues to check on him on a weekly basis."
    Whosawhat?? Brother(s), you just blew my mind.



    Bird said Tinsley has lost weight and has passed physical tests by team trainers.
    In other words, Bird CONFIRMS the Tinsley weight rumors. What's he losing weight for if he didn't put any on? And if it's being mentioned then I'd say it was more than just regular summer weight but rather an issue Bird thought needed to be addressed when discussing Tinsley's value.

    For example, you don't read "Bird said Tinsley has been working on his 3pt shot" or "Bird said Tinsley has gained some muscle" or "Bird said Tinsley has been working on agility drills". What freaking player needs to lose weight and pass physical tests just to be tradable?
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 07-16-2008 at 10:37 AM.

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    If I remember correctly (from the days of the Peja/Harrington deals) you cannot combine as exception with a player.
    That's been my understanding as well.

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    What freaking player needs to lose weight and pass physical tests just to be tradable?
    Players coming off of a knee injury?
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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    I'm encouraged to read Bird is STILL looking for a POWER FORWARD. Hopefully, he will find one, b/c Williams, Baston, or McDud aren't the type of PF the Pacers need to go along with Murphy/Foster.

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Is the MLE a tradeable asset?

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I'm encouraged to read Bird is STILL looking for a POWER FORWARD. Hopefully, he will find one, b/c Williams, Baston, or McDud aren't the type of PF the Pacers need to go along with Murphy/Foster.
    Yeah, it's encouraging to hear Bird say this. I mean, we have PFs. We have 3 guys that are primarily PFs (McBob, Murphy and Baston) and three guys that can swing to the 4 (Danny, Shawne and Jeff). Obviously we have quantity. We lack quality...and Bird recognizes that, something that we've been saying this organization needs to recognize.

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    40 and done with basketball is not the same as Wells/JMV talking about him putting on 25, maybe 30 with no confirmation as to why he gained that or any weight.

    The "why" was always speculation and plenty of us saying the weight part was real WERE NOT giving reasons for why. Ultimately who cares why, putting on a bunch of weight would affect his value regardless of the reason.

    If he put on 25 and has lost 10 then not one thing said so far by anyone reasonable is out of place. Bird's telling the truth and the hints of his true weight gain also remain true.

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    Players coming off of a knee injury?
    Physical test yes, but you lose weight because you gained weight. And it gets mentioned because it's significant enough to affect his perceived value.

    If we are saying he put on weight because of the knee injury then I'm NOT disagreeing. That sure could be why.

    The argument Anthem has going is that Tinsley didn't gain a bunch of weight because Bird said he has lost weight. Frankly I think that logic has a flaw.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 07-16-2008 at 11:31 AM.

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    Default Re: couple of mike wells' articles on tinsley, trading

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    Players coming off of a knee injury?
    Yeah but we "know" that doesn't apply with Tinsley.


    Also, if we could get Haslem for JT, I'd crown Bird GM of the year. I'd even make the crown with my bare hands and place it on his head.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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