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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

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  • #16
    Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

    Like many others here, I have always believed that there was some planned obsolescence in Obie's career here. In the transition period, he would put a more entertaining product on the floor and bring some discipline to the locker room. However, the system itself had limitations that we've all discussed ad nauseum.

    For those reasons, I agree with your position that we are starting to see the moves that will eventually (next summer or the summer after) lead to us parting ways with Jim O'Brien. I'm not entirely convinced it will be a stormy divorce, but I do think Jim's shelf life will not exceed two more seasons here.

    I also disagree to varying degrees about the decisions you attribute to Walsh vs. Bird. I think Walsh may have carried a heavy influence, but I still think it's possible, if not likely, that Williams and O'Brien were Bird's decisions. The results with Williams (and, by extension, James White) may have left Bird with a sour taste in his mouth, moving him back to a more traditional model for franchise building. (Plus, I think the moves over the last couple of weeks have caused me for the first time to believe that Bird may have had a significant hand in the Golden State deal, as well.)

    Disagreements or no, this, as with all of your stuff, has been a fantastic, informative, and thought provoking read. Love to see you put up new stuff. Thanks for putting in the time and care.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

      Tbird, not you too?

      I'm waiting for someone to say that Larry Bird didn't really smoke weed with John Mellencamp, it was Donnie Walsh all along.

      Seriously, Larry Bird couldn't have possibly looked at Al, JB, JO, Jamaal, Ron, David, Jack, Quis, and Shawne and thought maybe possibly the organization would be better served drafting more mature players. It makes much more sense that Donnie had his hand up Larry's puppet *** for five years controlling his every move and telling him exactly what to say. Because Mr. "No-nonsense call it like I see it" certainly wouldn't have a problem with that. No sir.


      Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

        Originally posted by ABADays View Post
        This exactly what I was talking about on another thread. Bird has the "Boston puzzle or Boston equation" on his mind. There is no doubt this is the formula he is going to utilize in building HIS team.
        Larry Bird would be the first to tell you that TJ Ford is no Dennis Johnson.

        I think he would also be the first to say that you can't replicate that Celtics team. That team was built on incredible talent, 1-12, and structure was secondary.

        Even if that were possible, I'd like to think there's more to Larry than that. While Phil Jackson learned lessons about team chemistry from Red Holtzman, he certainly has not gravitated to balanced teams like the 70's Knicks. John Paxson went the other way, trying to build balanced teams in Chicago, in direct opposition to the Jordan teams he played on. Pat Riley was with the Lakers organization for 20 years, didn't prevent him from coaching and putting together a number of vastly different teams.

        The point I'm trying to make is even the intractable Larry Bird may just have the ability to lick his finger, stick it up in the air, judge which direction the wind is blowing, and attempt to change course accordingly.
        Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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        • #19
          Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

          Originally posted by Kegboy View Post
          Larry Bird would be the first to tell you that TJ Ford is no Dennis Johnson.

          I think he would also be the first to say that you can't replicate that Celtics team. That team was built on incredible talent, 1-12, and structure was secondary.

          Even if that were possible, I'd like to think there's more to Larry than that. While Phil Jackson learned lessons about team chemistry from Red Holtzman, he certainly has not gravitated to balanced teams like the 70's Knicks. John Paxson went the other way, trying to build balanced teams in Chicago, in direct opposition to the Jordan teams he played on. Pat Riley was with the Lakers organization for 20 years, didn't prevent him from coaching and putting together a number of vastly different teams.

          The point I'm trying to make is even the intractable Larry Bird may just have the ability to lick his finger, stick it up in the air, judge which direction the wind is blowing, and attempt to change course accordingly.
          I noticed an error in my post. It should have read there is no doubt in my mind - not there is no doubt.

          And as tbird would say . . . just my opinion.
          The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

            JOB was definitely all Bird.

            TJ Ford, Jarrett Jack and Brandon Rush fit nicely into JOB's team.

            Ford runs a great offense. Jack is a solid defender. Rush knows how to sneak into spots on the floor without being seen during fast breaks.

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            • #21
              Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

              Whether JOb is a short term (1 or 2 more years or longer term (3-5 more years), Bird is not picking players to fit JOb's style necessarily. I think that much is clear. He is also not really focusing on a true rebuild from the foundation up. What he IS doing is attempting to return to the playoffs ASAP by plugging holes with safe, solid picks and conservative trades...all with the goal of cleaning up the team's image. IMO, cleaning up the image is a second priority only to a return to the playoffs.

              So, bottom line is, I think Mickey Mouse could be coaching this team and the same picks would have been made...

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

                I think cleaning up the image is the MAIN priority. He could have a couple of years to build the team. He's got NO TIME to clean up the image.
                The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

                  Originally posted by ABADays View Post
                  I think cleaning up the image is the MAIN priority. He could have a couple of years to build the team. He's got NO TIME to clean up the image.
                  This is a grey area. Now, I'm sure that keeping Jamaal Tinsley off the floor is more important to him than making the playoffs, but I don't think keeping Shawne Williams or Quis off the floor is more important. That is, some cleaning I will admit is more important than making the playoffs, but a full overhaul is not.

                  That's where the thin ice comes in. Williams is barely acceptable. Tinsley is not.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

                    Originally posted by YoSoyIndy View Post
                    JOB was definitely all Bird.
                    Oh really? who told you that Donnie or Larry?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

                      I'm happy with the changes.. just to keep it simple. I would like to see a couple more, mainly no Tinsley, Quis or Williams.
                      "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
                      Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

                        Originally posted by Ramitt View Post
                        Oh really? who told you that Donnie or Larry?
                        Larry.

                        http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/obrien_hired_070531.html

                        Originally posted by Larry Joe
                        I got the right man for the right job.
                        "The direction I want to go," Bird said, "he's the guy that's going to get us there."
                        Last edited by Kegboy; 07-04-2008, 11:36 PM.
                        Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

                          These posts are far too long tbird. I appreciate the fact that most folks enjoy your posts but at the same time, you seemingly cannot make a post that is not 15+ paragraphs. There is something to be said for the ability to summarize and post your thoughts in a succinct manner.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

                            Originally posted by Big Smooth View Post
                            These posts are far too long tbird. I appreciate the fact that most folks enjoy your posts but at the same time, you seemingly cannot make a post that is not 15+ paragraphs. There is something to be said for the ability to summarize and post your thoughts in a succinct manner.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

                              This is pretty scary after what I consider to be a good set of personnel moves...that are not at all geared to JOb ball. Just another example of a flip-flop like going from no milk drinkers needed, to Sarunas all-world, to James White long, lean and athletic players, to dump punks for fat contracts, to only milk drinkers need apply. My head is just spinning...

                              If the moves (draft picks and JO trade) had been bad, it would have been consistent with most everything else that has been coming out of the brain trust. But this time, the moves were actually very good. Significant improvements in the team as well as the salary situation. Not gonna say genius, but pretty darn good.

                              I guess my main question is, is the brain trust learning how it should be done...or were they just lucky this time?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: A re-examination of the past, and a looming conflict in the future in our Pacer organization

                                Back to the idea that Larry didn't really want Shawne:

                                http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/willi...te_060629.html

                                Larry Bird: (Opening statement) I can honestly say I'm very pleased and have a good feeling today.
                                Rick Carlisle: (Opening statement) I would like to echo that and say our scouting people did a great job not only of finding these guys, and Larry of coordinating the draft so we'd have a chance to get both of them.
                                I wish I could quote the first words out of Donnie's mouth, too, but he wasn't at the PC.

                                And here's the first line from Conrad's draft night article.

                                http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/draft_060628.html

                                Larry Bird isn't really the excitable type, but he made little attempt to conceal his delight over what the Pacers were able to accomplish in the NBA Draft.
                                Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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