Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 3
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 template Next
  • #1

    Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

    From ESPN.com

    Thursday, July 3, 2008
    Reports: Arenas agrees to six-year, $111M contract to help Wizards' future





    Associated Press


    WASHINGTON -- Gilbert Arenas is accepting less money from the Washington Wizards, invoking an attitude far, far removed from the world of his working-class fans.

    "What can I do for my family with $127 million that I can't do with $111 million?" he told The Washington Post.

    The unpredictable three-time All-Star point guard, in vintage Agent Zero fashion, told the Post and the Washington Times on Thursday that he has agreed to re-sign for $111 million over six years, considerably less than the maximum deal he said the Wizards offered him when the free agency period began on Tuesday.

    Arenas negotiated the deal from China, where is traveling as part of promotional tour for a shoe company, and did so without an agent.

    "I'm basically giving back $16 million," Arenas told the Washington Times.

    "This is in line with what I've been saying the whole time. You see players take max deals and they financially bind their teams. I don't wanna be one of those players and three years down the road your team is strapped and can't do anything about it."

    Arenas became a free agent after opting out of the final year of his six-year, $65 million contract at the end of last season. He initially said he was opting out to receive a max contract, but he later indicated he would be flexible in negotiations.


    Arenas also said that he would not re-sign unless the team retained two-time All-Star forward Antawn Jamison. The Wizards lived up to that part of the bargain Monday by giving Jamison a four-year, $50 million deal.

    Arenas has proven to be one of the most dynamic players in the NBA when healthy, but a major knee and an overzealous rehabilitation sidelined him for most of the last season. He had a first surgery on the knee in April 2007, tried to come back too soon and had a second operation in November. He missed 66 games before returning late in the season, but he had to shut himself down again during the first-round playoff series against Cleveland.

    Arenas has vowed to be more cautious about his rehab this time, and the state of his knee didn't appear to devalue his worth in talks with the Wizards.

    The Wizards cannot comment on talks with Arenas or announce the deal until a league-mandated moratorium expires next week.

    Arenas has averaged 22.8 points, 5.5 assists and 4.2 rebounds in his seven-season NBA career. He was known as much for his tantrums as for on-court play when he came to Washington from Golden State in 2003, but he began to display more maturity as he developed into a take-over-the-game player with a knack for hitting buzzer-beating shots. Although he still has his many quirks -- yelling "Hibachi!" after making a big shot is just one of many -- he has helped the Wizards became a playoff regular.

    Arenas' deal means the Wizards will have room to sign other players -- including free agent guard Roger Mason -- and still remain under the league's luxury tax.

    "It's a relief," Arenas told the Washington Times. "It was a burden at the same time. Your whole city is depending on you, wondering if you're going to make the right decision. I'm a franchise player and sometimes franchise players need to make franchise decisions."

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now, I ask was that nobility talking (text in bold) or was Agent Zero simply trying to make himself out to be the hero here? And if his words were genuine, who exact was he referring to? Remember, he and JO are close friends. AND of all the top players reported to have large player options in contracts headed into the '08/09 season, JO's the only one (I recall anyway) who hasn't opted out of his contract for the sake of "his team". Kinda makes Gilbert look like a saint, huh?

    Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm?".
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 07-04-2008, 10:59 AM.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

    Gil is a pretty genuine dude, I don't doubt for a second that he took less money for the right reasons. Props to him for still getting a sh*tload of money and yet allowing his team to pursue other pieces to make the team better in the long run and not be handicapped by his salary.

    $111,000,000 isn't too shabby either. I'd take it.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

      You need to include the link to the article. Thanks.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

        So, $2.6 mil per year is gonna make that big a deal when it comes
        to aquiring additional pieces to get them over the hump ? In today's
        NBA ? Right. Uh huh. Sure it will.

        Somehow I think that Mother Theresa's spot atop 'Altruism Mountain'
        is safe.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

          I think you may be looking into that quote a little to much. I do not think it was a shot a JO, just GIl showing that he was doing the right thing for his team.

          Was he doing this for show? Maybe. But the team offered him the max then said its up to you to take less but we think it would help the team out in the long run. A pretty smart way to run negotiations and props to Gilbert for helping his team out.
          A players agent said the Wizards are clearly attempting to put the burden on Arenas to make a decision.

          "They're making it clear that, 'Hey, we love you, we want you here, we didn't lowball you, we made a big offer,' but at the same time, they're putting the onus on him to think about the direction of the franchise," said the agent, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he did want to be quoted speaking about a player who is not his client. "It's an interesting strategy and makes sense when you think about how he is. This way, he can still get way more from them than he can get anywhere else and he can say to the fans, 'Hey, I took less to help the team.' "
          Then again, 111M isn't all that shabby.

          Gilbert Arenas is accepting less money from the Washington Wizards, invoking an attitude far, far removed from the world of his working-class fans.

          "What can I do for my family with $127 million that I can't do with $111 million?" he told The Washington Post.
          http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070103222.html

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

            Originally posted by Hicks View Post
            You need to include the link to the article. Thanks.
            Done. Thanks for the reminder.

            One thing's for sure, Gilbert doesn't have to worry about not being able to feed his family.
            Last edited by NuffSaid; 07-04-2008, 11:09 AM.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

              Thanks, NuffSaid.

              I'm not impressed with this "now my team has less than half of the MLE to spend each year!" stuff he's saying.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

                Yeah, he's not really saving the Wiz tons of money. I think Brand and (to some extent) Baron Davis can be credited with some altruism. Gil could have taken 12 mil/year or something. That would have put the Wiz in a much better position. And with endorsements Gil gets, 12mil/year would not have been terrible.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

                  It's something atleast. There's enough other guys milking out their teams or teams interested in them to the last penny.

                  I think 12mln p/y is very unrealistic. I think 16.5mln is prob. what he should have taken if he wanted to really help his team out much. That would have been saving the Wizards about 4.6+mln p/y. Combine that with half to fully the amount they would have otherwise spend on the midlevel and they could definitely get a player that matters.

                  Still either way you cut it, and I'm not a fan of him, it's not something you see happenning too often, so I can respect him for that. 111mln is huge, but giving up on 16mln is still pretty big even if what you have left is still crazy money .

                  Regards,

                  Mourning
                  2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                  2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                  2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

                    I'm sure the Wizards told him what would be a helpful pay cut and what wouldn't. They must have thought that they would be able to do certain things with what they are saving and I imagine to convince Gilbert to do it, they told him what those things were.
                    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

                      Originally posted by Mourning View Post
                      It's something atleast. There's enough other guys milking out their teams or teams interested in them to the last penny.

                      I think 12mln p/y is very unrealistic. I think 16.5mln is prob. what he should have taken if he wanted to really help his team out much. That would have been saving the Wizards about 4.6+mln p/y. Combine that with half to fully the amount they would have otherwise spend on the midlevel and they could definitely get a player that matters.

                      Still either way you cut it, and I'm not a fan of him, it's not something you see happenning too often, so I can respect him for that. 111mln is huge, but giving up on 16mln is still pretty big even if what you have left is still crazy money .

                      Regards,

                      Mourning
                      But, I mean, it's not like he opted out so that they could get him some significant help a la Brand. He opted out for himself and got a pay raise. Now, I love Gil as much as the next guy (he was in my avatar for a year for chrissakes) but let's not make this out to be some act of god. It's kind of refreshing, but astounding it is not.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

                        Originally posted by Rajah Brown View Post
                        So, $2.6 mil per year is gonna make that big a deal when it comes
                        to aquiring additional pieces to get them over the hump ? In today's
                        NBA ? Right. Uh huh. Sure it will.

                        Somehow I think that Mother Theresa's spot atop 'Altruism Mountain'
                        is safe.
                        It's a very nice gesture. He's basically giving back one year on the contract, which is a lot. But I do agree that I'm not sure how much an extra $2.6 mil each year is going to help the Wizards to make big moves.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

                          He probably split the difference with them. Which is better than
                          nothing. I've got nothing against Arenas. I actually like him alot.
                          He's a unique character and an interesting young guy.

                          The NBA is a funny business. The Wiz probably know full well that
                          they're never gonna win an NBA Title with A-Z leading them making
                          almost $20mil per year. And speaking off the record, they'd probably
                          say so. But if you aren't gonna win it anyway, you might as well fill
                          the seats, rake in the $$$ and keep the average fan happy.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

                            Originally posted by Rajah Brown View Post
                            He probably split the difference with them. Which is better than
                            nothing. I've got nothing against Arenas. I actually like him alot.
                            He's a unique character and an interesting young guy.

                            The NBA is a funny business. The Wiz probably know full well that
                            they're never gonna win an NBA Title with A-Z leading them making
                            almost $20mil per year. And speaking off the record, they'd probably
                            say so. But if you aren't gonna win it anyway, you might as well fill
                            the seats, rake in the $$$ and keep the average fan happy.
                            And that's really what it all comes down to.

                            For many owners, winning a title is secondary to putting butts in the seats. The Wizards would not give Gil that kind of money unless they were sure that his presence on the team would bring in enough fans spending money to exceed Gil's contract. If he never wins a title, but the Wizards make money, they still win. If he wins a title, that's just the icing on the cake.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Agent "Zero" Takes Less Than Max Contract Offer to Remain w/Wizards

                              Now there's a man with integrity.

                              And some of you are absurd.
                              Read my Pacers blog:
                              8points9seconds.com

                              Follow my twitter:
                              @8pts9secs

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 3 template Next
                              Working...
                              X