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Thread: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    Did he? or was he injured? Is he a nutcase or an injury prone athlete? We'll probably never know but we do know he lit up both point guards brought in to replace him.
    No doubt that JT has more ability than half the PGs in the NBA. If he was motivated he could be an allstar. He said it best himself at the beginning of last season. He said, "If I can't be successful in this system, with this coach, then there's something wrong." That's not word for word, but that was the jist of it.
    Turn out the lights, this party's over!

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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    I could careless if the official reason he missed a game was because he got his pinky stuck and his ear turned blue. I'm not arguing over the sinus problems, because I doubt he has or ever has had sinus problems.

    The fact of the matter is, one day he'll miss a game and we'll get a report then a few days later they'll change up his "injury."

    Just like after the PHO game. The report that him and JOB got into it, and JOB suspended him. The suspension came from none other than S. Jackson. Then the Ps are asked and they say they just gave him the day off to rest, AT HOME.

    They can put in the official reason as to why he misses 20games for pregnancy. I don't care.

    He misses games for suspect reasons, and TJ has a legit medical problem that is actually covered by insurance. Doesn't change the fact you still added missed games to TJ. He's missed 60 games less than Tinsley in the past 4 years. That's well over a total season for Jamaal.
    Last edited by Since86; 07-01-2008 at 04:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    I don't trust official listings for why a player is out unless I can see for myself that he's sick or hurting. We used to make stuff up for Artest all the time. Tinsley appeared to me, and to many others, to miss a lot of games due to "illness". Eventually most settled on referring to the sinus issues, but that's not really the point that it was (or not) sinus issues.

  4. #79
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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    And once again you make up stuff because you don't like Jamaal as a person ( which most on here don't),
    I haven't liked Jamaal as a player for five years.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Outside of two fluke bad landings, including the last where 250 lb. Al Horford literally swatted his head like a basketball, Ford has been fine. There's a difference between two unfortunate, legitimate injuries and the nagging, questionable crap Tinsley has had over the years, a lot of which was either faked or a result of being out of shape.

    Provided Ford doesn't take any more fluke landings, there's no reason to expect him to miss a significant number of games.

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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I really don't care too much for this assessment.
    I really don't care too much for Fox Sports. Period.

  7. #82
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    This has been discussed before, with links that I will not dig up. There is a website somewhere that lists the reason every NBA player misses a game. Jamaal has officially missed two games in his career that were attributed to his sinus problem. You can speculate all you want about how many were actually because he was too hung over, missed practice, his cocaine habit, he was on the run from gun toting thugs etc... the official report listed two.
    http://www.forecaster.ca/cbc/basketball/player.cgi?945

    Here is Ford's injury list since 2004:

    MOVEMENTS & INJURIES
    25-Jun-08 Acquired from the Toronto Raptors. (see analysis)
    22-Feb-08 Missed 2 games (wrist injury).
    13-Feb-08 Wrist injury, day-to-day.
    04-Feb-08 Missed 24 games (back injury).
    12-Dec-07 Back injury, day-to-day.
    05-Dec-07 Missed 1 game (stinger).
    03-Dec-07 Stinger, day-to-day.
    30-Nov-07 Missed 4 games (stinger).
    21-Nov-07 Stinger, day-to-day.
    31-Jan-07 Missed 4 games (right ankle injury).
    22-Jan-07 Right ankle injury, day-to-day.
    07-Jan-07 Missed 3 games (sprained right ankle).
    30-Dec-06 Sprained right ankle, day-to-day.
    31-Oct-06 Signed by the Toronto Raptors to a four-year contract extension.
    30-Jun-06 Acquired from the Milwaukee Bucks. (see analysis)
    01-Apr-06 Missed 4 games (quadricep injury).
    26-Mar-06 Quadricep injury, inactive list.
    23-Jan-06 Missed 2 games (hamstring).
    20-Jan-06 Hamstring, day-to-day.
    07-Jan-06 Missed 4 games (sprained left foot).
    29-Dec-05 Sprained left foot, mid-January.
    28-Oct-05 Milwaukee Bucks exercised their club option for the 2006-07 season.
    20-Apr-05 Missed all 82 games of the regular season (back injury).
    01-Nov-04 Back injury, injured list.

    and here is Jamaal's

    MOVEMENTS & INJURIES
    16-Apr-08 Missed the last 33 games of the regular season (sore right knee).
    06-Feb-08 Sore right knee, day-to-day.
    01-Feb-08 Missed 3 games (sore left knee).
    24-Jan-08 Sore left knee, day-to-day.
    19-Jan-08 Missed 1 game (sore left knee).
    16-Jan-08 Sore left knee, day-to-day.
    08-Jan-08 Missed 5 games (hamstring).
    29-Dec-07 Hamstring, day-to-day.
    21-Dec-07 Missed 1 game (bruised left thigh).
    19-Dec-07 Bruised left thigh, day-to-day.
    18-Apr-07 Missed the last game of the regular season (elbow injury).
    15-Apr-07 Missed 5 games (elbow injury).
    06-Apr-07 Elbow injury, day-to-day.
    17-Mar-07 Missed 1 game (sore left foot).
    14-Mar-07 Sore left foot, day-to-day.
    11-Mar-07 Missed 1 game (suspension).
    10-Mar-07 Suspended by the Indiana Pacers for one game for conduct detrimental to the team.
    02-Mar-07 Missed 1 game (left leg injury).
    27-Feb-07 Left leg injury, day-to-day.
    24-Jan-07 Missed 1 game (lower back contusion).
    22-Jan-07 Lower back contusion, day-to-day.
    04-May-06 Missed Game 3, 4, 5 and 6 of Round One against the New Jersey Nets (sore right achilles).
    27-Apr-06 Sore right Achilles, day-to-day.
    25-Apr-06 Missed the last 3 games of the regular season and Game 1 of Round One against the New Jersey Nets (Achilles tendon).
    17-Apr-06 Achilles tendon, day-to-day.
    10-Apr-06 Missed 3 games (Achilles tendon).
    09-Apr-06 Achilles tendon, day-to-da.
    22-Mar-06 Missed 1 game (sinus infection).
    21-Mar-06 Sinus infection, day-to-day.
    07-Mar-06 Missed 15 games (elbow injury).
    27-Jan-06 Elbow injury, day-to-day.
    20-Jan-06 Missed 11 games (elbow injury).
    30-Dec-05 Elbow injury, day-to-day.
    16-Dec-05 Missed 6 games (groin).
    02-Dec-05 Groin, day-to-day.
    16-Nov-05 Missed 1 game (sinus infection).
    12-Nov-05 Sinus infection, day-to-day.
    03-May-05 Missed the last 29 games of the regular season and the first 4 games of Round One against the Boston Celtics (bruised left foot).
    17-Apr-05 Bruised left foot, injured list.
    25-Feb-05 Foot injury, day-to-day.
    22-Feb-05 Missed 2 games (bruised left foot).
    13-Feb-05 Bruised left foot, day-to-day.
    11-Feb-05 Missed 5 games (bruised left foot).
    02-Feb-05 Bruised left foot, day-to-day.
    14-Dec-04 Missed 3 games (sprained right ankle).
    07-Dec-04 Sprained right ankle, day-to-day.
    03-Dec-04 Missed 1 game (thigh injury).
    01-Dec-04 Thigh injury, day-to-day.
    23-Nov-04 Missed 1 game (wrist injury).
    20-Nov-04 Wrist injury, day-to-day.
    29-Oct-04 Re-signed by the Indiana Pacers to a six-year contract extension
    Of the 129 games Ford missed, 106 (82%) of them were attributable to major injuries caused by a specific event. In the two years after he missed the 2004-2005 season, Ford played in 147 of his team's 164 games (90%). After a second specific even resulted in Ford missing 24 games this past season, he returned to play in 34 of his team's final 36 games and all five of their playoff games.

    Reviewing the list for Tinsley shows a steady stream of minor, nagging, and day-to-day injuries, almost always costing him games. Even his major injuries (2005 bruised foot, 29 games, 2008 sore knee, 33 games) were injuries that were originally thought to be minor or short-lived, yet lingered.

    Regarding the "sinus" infection, yes, there were only two games missed to that. But, let's throw that out. Let's say that each and every game missed was due to a legitimate injury. Even if that is the case, his history shows that he is a player who is too fragile to stay on the floor for extended period of times.

    It's a question of reliability. While Ford certainly bears a larger risk vis a vis a catastrophic injury, he has shown himself to be considerably more reliable from a health standpoint than Jamaal. You can count on him to be there and be available significantly more than you can Jamaal.

    Regarding ability, it is not unreasonable to say that JT is the most talented of the three you mentioned. However, after seasons of 52,40,42,72, and 39 games played, I don't know how you can even consider his ability. Just as with JO, the talent is useless if you don't know whether it's going to be there on a night-to-night basis.

  8. #83
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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    When did start writing for Foxsports?

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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    The biggest question is, will he move back in with his parents? I mean he is only 21, guessing seeing as how he graduated in '05.

  10. #85

    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I'm not sure how the response above relates to the post below.

    Sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you were advocating a move for Baron.... I guess I was also just highlighting my fear of going for these types of players rather than a direct response to what you posted. I meant no offence at all.

  11. #86
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by davstarp10 View Post
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    Sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you were advocating a move for Baron.... I guess I was also just highlighting my fear of going for these types of players rather than a direct response to what you posted. I meant no offence at all.
    None taken...I was just confused.

  12. #87

    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Hopefully the Tinsley debate will be behind the Pacers soon, and I was once a Tinsley fan.

  13. #88
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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    I don't know whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I'm 99% certain that we fans on the internet only know about 1% of the stuff that was going on in general and even less than that for Tinsley, who disdains talking to the hacks at the local newspaper (unlike some of our other idiots who could give a nice, happy "I'm so misunderstood" story to the paper and their gullible fans would buy into it.)

    All the speculation on here is merely speculation. I'm fairly certain that Tinsley was both far better and far worse than we give him credit for, at the same time.

    It wasn't all that long ago that Tinsley was the guy that the rest of the Pacers would rally around - when he was "on" the rest of the team would really elevate their games and also cover for his defensive weaknesses.

    For better or worse, Tinsley has been the real leader that JO wasn't, and when Tinsley would disappear the team was left wandering around aimlessly. His leadership wasn't very focused or effective, but it was filling the leadership void on that dysfunctional roster.

    It makes me sad. This is a guy that a decade ago was a high school dropout working on a garbage truck. Basketball was his way out. Its a shame he is wasting that talent.

    In all honesty, he hasn't been the same since his mother passed away. I think he's lost. And I think he's more scared of success than failure.

    Its not hard to see why he's public enemy #1.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  14. #89
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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    One way or another, that boy's gotta go.

    Rags to riches, sure. But he may have thrown that all away. It's hard to feel sorry for him now.

  15. #90

    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    I would still love him to prove everyone wrong, I have just resigned myself to the fact its not going to happen.

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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Who wouldn't want to see one of the players on the team you like succeed? He just has had his chance(s) and blew them.

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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by davstarp10 View Post
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    I would still love him to prove everyone wrong, I have just resigned myself to the fact its not going to happen.
    Its not going to happen here.

    He's needed a fresh start away from the Pacers since 9/3/2003.

    I wouldn't be shocked if he turns his life/ approach around somewhere else.

    And I wouldn't be shocked if he disappears entirely. After five years, it may be too late to save him.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  18. #93
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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Doesn't change the fact you still added missed games to TJ. He's missed 60 games less than Tinsley in the past 4 years. That's well over a total season for Jamaal.

    I'm pretty sure the math is right on that. Jamaal's missed 6 more games in 4 season's, 129 to 135. I think you're overlooking the entire season he sat out with back injuries. We could go back to TJ's whole career and he's played in nine more games than Tinsley in 5 seasons. That includes Ford's rookie year and the one where Rick benched JT for 1/3 of the season.


    P.S.
    This is why I voted you the poster I'd like to see post more often. I like arguing with you for some reason.


    Count, it doesn't matter as much why the games were missed, if they're missing 'em right. They both have missed alot of time over 5 seasons. TJ has missed just as much as JT. If you're not there, you're not there.

  19. #94
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    And on the insurance thing that everyone seems so confident in...It's only valid if the guy suffers a career-ending injury where he says "Okay...I'm done." And it's not like we get immediate cap relief. It can take a while.

    It takes solid year from the day that he admits he will never play again for them to evaluate all the medical info and fill out the forms and run all the paperwork through league offices, insurers investigations and all that red tape. So unless he literally breaks his neck and gets paralyzed or otherwise hurts himself so that he immediately knows -- and then admits -- that his NBA career is over in the first 12 months or so of this current contract, the insurance only helps Herb recoup his losses. It doesn't retroactively go back and allow us to sign a new player during the 12-month paper trail that will occur after he's carried off on a stretcher.

    Essentially, from a competitive, salary cap point of view, the insurance isn't much of a safeguard at all.

    EDIT: Was looking for the exact definition. Here it is from Larry Coon's Salary Cap FAQ

    http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#58

    There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary. For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary). This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

    Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

    If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.
    Last edited by JayRedd; 07-01-2008 at 07:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Its not going to happen here.

    He's needed a fresh start away from the Pacers since 9/3/2003.

    I wouldn't be shocked if he turns his life/ approach around somewhere else.

    And I wouldn't be shocked if he disappears entirely. After five years, it may be too late to save him.


    There is still good in him, I know it!

  21. #96

    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    There is still good in him, I know it!


    haha, brilliant... Vader had a few sinus problems too....

  22. #97

    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    "He is a defensive standout with solid shooting ability, but asking him to be more than that is asking for trouble. "

    What is more than a defensive standout? Supersonic? Astronomic?

    A defensive standout with solid shooting skills would be great!!!

    Taking Hibbert at 17 was also a mistake as he's limited athletically, and will be nothing more than a solid center.

    Yeah, solid centers are a dime a dozen and of no help whatsoever. Wish we could have gotten a super solid center, maybe super dense would have been superlative. Hope this guys predications come true............

  23. #98
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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by davstarp10 View Post
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    haha, brilliant... Vader had a few sinus problems too....
    I think that was a resperatory issue, but close enough.

    Thanks!!!

  24. #99
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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by 2minutes twowa View Post
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    True, but can you imagine the frustration Johnson went through. As much as we hate JT, imagine out playing him everyday and still having to back him up.
    Put down the pipe, man.

    In no way, shape, or form was Anthony Johnson ever better than Jamaal.

    Dude didn't even learn how to advance the ball against pressure until his last year in Indy.
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    Default Re: Foxsports.com Pacers Draft Report Card: D

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    In all honesty, he hasn't been the same since his mother passed away. I think he's lost.
    That's close to word-for-word what I almost posted in another thread.

    Great minds think alike.
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