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Thread: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    I'm pretty excited about the line-up and the changes.

    But it's not a front court player or a power forward that I sense we need as much as someone who can make something happen in a slow down offense.

    Ford makes us drastically better in this area. But I don't see our offense being stellar with just Ford penetrating and either scoring or kicking it out to our wings to shoot a three.

    We need one more player who can make something happen from scratch. JO was somewhat of an option for us in that way, except he just wasn't very good at it. Artest was the player who did that for us when we won 61 games.

    I like Shawne at the 4 to help this problem, but unless he develops more skills, he's not the answer. Same with Danny. I expect to see more of Quis than some of you are thinking because of this need for someone else to create.

    If Ford goes down, we really suffer.

    I'm looking forward to see what Rush can do, but most reports I've heard don't have him as a creator as much as a catch and shoot kind of guy. If Bayless turns out to be a creator-type, I may find myself regretting this trade eventually. However, I like it so far. I just think we may have wing redundancy and need to trade someone to get another initiator for the offense.
    I don't know who else we can go after to solve this problem, but I'd like to hear some ideas.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 06-29-2008 at 09:24 PM.
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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    ...Tinsley...?


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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    I think Danny is developing in that role msyelf. He may not be the clear cut #1 guy on a good team, but he is our guy right now. Maybe B. Rush can develop that down the road a few years.

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffg-body View Post
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    I think Danny is developing in that role msyelf. He may not be the clear cut #1 guy on a good team, but he is our guy right now. Maybe B. Rush can develop that down the road a few years.
    I agree, Danny is slowly getting better and more aggressive.. Once he gets better at dribbling he will be a stud at creating plays.

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    We now have several bigs willing to set screens for a change. I don't think this will be as much of an issue as it was in the past.

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrion View Post
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    We now have several bigs willing to set screens for a change. I don't think this will be as much of an issue as it was in the past.
    Ya, thats a good point.. But we don't know if we are good at screen plays yet because we really have never done them.. But I think we should use some in practice to try it out and see if it does work good for us. I think it would work really well with Dunleavy, maybe Granger, and probably Graham if he gets minutes.

    That brings up another thought... Graham is actually a pretty good creator.. He just never gets the minutes.

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    We need one more player who can make something happen from scratch. JO was somewhat of an option for us in that way, except he just wasn't very good at it.
    I've got to disagree with this. Jermaine was TERRIBLE at this. I love Jermaine, but that's not where he's best. In a one-possession game, it's too easy to collapse on the big man, give little fouls, etc. When you have to get one bucket, everybody in the NBA goes with a perimeter player.

    Danny's developing this, which is good. We need it.
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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I've got to disagree with this. Jermaine was TERRIBLE at this. I love Jermaine, but that's not where he's best. In a one-possession game, it's too easy to collapse on the big man, give little fouls, etc. When you have to get one bucket, everybody in the NBA goes with a perimeter player.
    I can go with that.

    Sadly, the Pacers often went to Jermaine in these situations.

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Someone who can create is always nice.

    But not including point guards, who is out there that we can get?

    I think someone who can make something happen from scratch is very difficult to find. What we need is another offensive weapon, perferably someone who attracts a double team.

    Mike and Danny are the only guys on this team who can get 15+ a night. Shawne has the potential to do that for us. I like his game I think he just needs consistant game time. The real problem with him seems to be off the court issues which may have Larry sending him packing somewhere else.

    I don't think the Pacers have many opitions right now to help with this problem. TJ will create for others but he won't score a lot himself. We need a third scorer on this team and it has to be a big man.

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    We need someone who can draw a double team.

    It doesn't have to be a PF or C, but it does have to be someone who can post up or be enough of a threat even facing up that the D hedges for him. Someone with a devastating mid-range game if not a lot of low post moves.

    Danny could get there, but he's not there yet.

    Ike had the scoring skills to draw a double team on the blocks but lacked awareness or passing skills to dish it out of the double team, so his skills were wasted (i.e. double teaming him was effective because he could never exploit it).

    Face it, we will be a pick-n-pop team relying on jumpers and exploiting mismatches caused by TJ's penetration, pick and rolls, and screens.

    We have nobody for whom the opposing coach says "If he catches it there, then double-team him immediately"

    That would be nice, but I'll settle for entertaining basketball, guarding the dribble penetration, being aggressive, and getting to 0.500 or thereabouts.

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    If things go our way, I think Danny and Brandon will be our creators.

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    Face it, we will be a pick-n-pop team relying on jumpers and exploiting mismatches caused by TJ's penetration, pick and rolls, and screens.

    We have nobody for whom the opposing coach says "If he catches it there, then double-team him immediately"
    Yeah, sounds spot on.

    Sure wish we could find a way, though.

    P.S. With a bunch of strong character guys now, and if we ship Shawne, Quis, and Tinsley, maybe we could pick up Zach Randolph. He'd draw a double team.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    And he'd also destroy our motto of "Strong character".

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    So here is a question for you. Who on the Pistons can create for themselves besides Billups?

    I really don't think having a star that draws a double team is essential at this point. On the other hand if we can get everyone to play with in their game then I believe we will have a team that can compete in the East.

    To answer the question who can create beside Ford I also would say Granger and Quis. Personally I hate seeing isolation plays any way.

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    So here is a question for you. Who on the Pistons can create for themselves besides Billups?
    Well, I think Rasheed and Prince are better at it than anyone on our team (besides T.J Ford).
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    I have a question.

    Who was that guy on the 90s pacers teams?

    Reggie wasn't known for creating his own shot, he ran around and utilized screens to get open. Rush has a very similar game.

    I also think Hibbert will play a somewhat "smits" like role for us. There are your two leading scorers on the old team.

    Not saying these guys are as talented as their counterparts, but I disagree that you absolutley have to have that iso guy to be succesful in crunch time.
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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Most teams prefer to iso down the stretch, which frankly baffles me in most cases. I always liked how the Pacers would run a play for Reggie (mostly) or someone else (occasionally) to get them a good look, rather than just give them the ball and say "Go get 'em."

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    If Bayless turns out to be a creator-type, I may find myself regretting this trade eventually. However, I like it so far. I just think we may have wing redundancy and need to trade someone to get another initiator for the offense.
    I thought I read that Bayless is a pretty good creator for himself and others.
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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    I have a question.

    Who was that guy on the 90s pacers teams?

    Reggie wasn't known for creating his own shot, he ran around and utilized screens to get open. Rush has a very similar game.

    I also think Hibbert will play a somewhat "smits" like role for us. There are your two leading scorers on the old team.

    Not saying these guys are as talented as their counterparts, but I disagree that you absolutley have to have that iso guy to be succesful in crunch time.
    You could argue that Smits was able to create a shot more easily than Reggie.

    Also, during some games (I'm thinking specifically of the ECF against the Bulls), the goto guy at the end of games for us was Travis Best, who could definitely create his own shot.

    Reggie was great at hitting an open shot at the end of games. He was especially good at throwing up a desperation three when it was needed, often hitting it. But I'm not so sure he was the best guy to create a high percentage shot when you only needed a two.

    But, back to the point of the thread, I would agree that we don't need another creator or guy who draws double teams if we can run a team oriented offense like in the late 90s. But we need, in that case, a Mark Jackson passer and a Dale Davis pick setter. And a great coach.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Well TJ Ford is kinda like Best with the passing ability of a true PG like jax, so thats a start.

    I think Larry is definatly trying to build a team in the image of that old team... He is getting pieces that fit together really well. I like it. He has targeted a lot of high B-Ball IQ players for one thing.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 06-29-2008 at 11:48 PM.
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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    according to some portland fans, jarrett jack played the travis best 4th quarter role for them. but his results weren't always good... not unlike travis

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    We actually had a "go-to guy who can create."

    For about an hour.

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    We actually had a "go-to guy who can create."

    For about an hour.
    a go-to guy who disappeared against West Virginia in the tourney and relied on chase buddinger to do most of the shooting/scoring?
    This is the darkest timeline.

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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    We actually had a "go-to guy who can create."

    For about an hour.

    Years from now, Jerryd Bayless is going to be a trivia question. His name will be remembered along with other short-term Pacers such as Eric Piatkowski and Gerald Paddio. (Who else was a Pacer for a day or less?)



    Go-to guy? Nah. We're going to play team basketball. The other teams are not going to know who will get the call at crunch time. The "creating" is going to happen in the huddle during the time-out -- not on the floor with the clock ticking away.
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    Default Re: We aren't missing a power forward as much as a go-to guy or someone who can create (other than Ford).

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    a go-to guy who disappeared against West Virginia in the tourney and relied on chase buddinger to do most of the shooting/scoring?
    Seriously. What happened to Bayless in the tourney?

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