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Thread: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

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    Default Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    I intended to post this a few weeks ago, but I was so focused on writing the draft profiles that I put it on the backburner.

    Obviously, some of the luster of what the contest could have been is over, as we've made some major moves already last week. However, it appears as if there are still several holes to fill, and decisions to be made affecting next season and beyond, with many choices and possibilities available. I think we all know what the issues and problems are with the roster, but the question is, what is the best masterplan of action in order to solve them the best we can so we can be in the best condition for now and in the future?

    This thread can involve trades we might make with one or numerous teams, outright signings of unrestricted free agents, or "sign and trade" deals. It can involve players you'd like to see invited to training camp as non roster invitees as well, along with players you might choose to manuever for in the summer of 2009.

    For the purposes of this contest, please make sure your ideas are well thought out, make sense for all the teams involved, and fit under the rules of the collecting bargaining agreement.

    We will call the contest over on July 13th, giving us a chance to discuss the various plans if we wanted at the forum meet on July 12 to help determine who had the best overall plan. In reality, you should have your plan in place and posted before the moratorium on signings ends on July 9th.

    Even if you choose to not post an official "masterplan", feel free to comment on the ideas of others.....maybe we all will learn something from the dialogue that we hadn't considered before.

    Since I am the thread starter, I will go first.

    Step one for me is to try and figure a way out of the Jamal Tinsley mess. I don't see the Simon's paying Tinsley over 20 million to play elsewhere, and I am dubious of media claims of Tinsley having knee injuries so serious as to force his retirement, just as I am at the idea the Pacers will pay him off instead of at least attempting to use him somehow in a deal with a desperate club.

    Of course, it will take a desperate club to try and take on Tinsley, a team with no other good options at the point guard position is the only way this could work. We'd need to find a team so dysfunctional and traditionally screwed up that they'd be willing to take this kind of gamble. Fortunately, such a team does exist: The LA Clippers! Here is the first move:

    1. The Clippers sign and trade wingman Quinton Ross to a 3 year, 18 million dollar contract and trade him to Indiana for PG Jamal Tinsley and cash considerations.

    You all knew I'd try and figure out a way to get a premier wing defender to us, and I chose my favorite one, Quinton Ross, to come to Indiana. By all accounts, it appears that the Clippers have no interest in bringing Ross back to LA, so it makes sense that they might choose to get something for him, albeit something as flawed as Tinsley is. But, the Clippers have the worst point guard situation in the league, with little other options as good as Tinsley could potentially be. Getting cash from us is a nice bribe for the penny pinching Donald Sterling. For us, this is a great opportunity to add a great wing defender, freeing up Danny Granger to not have to guard the opponents best wing player all the time. We don't save any money in total here, but it doesnt cost us any either, and we get a very productive, important role player to add to our rotation.

    Step 2 for me would be to get a potential solution at power forward, without risking the entire team's future to do so. For a while now I've been trying to figure out a way to acquire Josh Smith, who I really like. However, If he turned down 11 million per year as reported, I can't see us having the available resources to pull off a sign and trade, or the willingness to make such a long term committment to him at this time.

    So, I've decided that I would pull the trigger on a much smaller, lower key deal that doesnt effect our salary structure so much. Here it is:

    The Pacers trade Jeff Foster to Denver.
    The Nuggets trade PF Linas Kleiza, C Stephen Hunter, and Charlotte's 2009 First round draft pick to Indiana.

    The Nuggets do this because they are in "win now" mode. This is Iverson's last year, and they need a replacement for Eduardo Najera, who is a free agent and likely to leave them. If they complete the trade I anticipate them making with Chicago involving Camby and Kirk Hinrich, Foster becomes a starter for them in the short run, and gives them an expiring deal as well if everything falls apart on them. Foster is perfect for the Nuggets, because he doesnt need the ball to be effective. With the gunners they have, that is very important!

    The Pacers get 2 main advantages from this deal. Kleiza is a potentially very nice player at the PF, one who Denver really likes. Getting him now gives us a year to evaluate him to see if he is part of our future or not. Hunter is just a thrown in, but is still a nice defensive center, giving us a "3 headed monster" of centers in Hibbert, Nesterovic, and Hunter for this one season.

    The main advantage of course is next year's first round draft pick, which Denver acquired from Charlotte last week. That pick will likely be in the lottery, so if everything would break our way we could have another very interesting draft night in 2009.

    Step 3 for me would be to shop Mike Dunleavy. I hate to do that, because Dunleavy is a fine, smart, hard working player who happens to be my Dad's favorite Pacer. But, we need to clear out some money here to be able to afford to keep Danny Granger long term, and we need a different mix I think of talents at our wing positions.....adding Rush in the draft and trading for Ross in this masterplan enables us to make a move like moving Dunleavy for additional help in other areas.

    The question then is, can you trade Dunleavy and get enough value for him to justify dealing him? I scoured the league's rosters, looking for a good matchup for him and his talents. Ideally, I was looking for young players, expiring contracts, and second round picks. I also wanted players with character and talent who would fit in to what we are trying to do here, both financially and in style of play.

    Here is the best deal I came up with:

    Indiana trades Mike Dunleavy to Portland
    Portland trades Channing Frye, Martell Webster, Travis Outlaw and a future second round draft pick to Indiana.

    This is a sensible deal for both teams I think. Portland has to make at some point a 3 for 1 type deal, as they have so many players on their roster they will be forced to lose them potentially for nothing. Dunleavy gives them an upgrade in terms of experience and basketball savvy, and his hidden strength of being able to feed the post will so well will be better utilized here, with Aldridge and Odon to feed the ball to. Dunleavy starts and really is a "glue guy" as their ideal 3rd or 4th best player.

    For Indiana, it is all about adding youthful talent while shedding salary. Frye and Webster are both good fits for us here, and have expiring contracts as well. Outlaw is a useful player who can play multiple positions if need be, and could be moved on fairly easily if the Pacers so desired.

    Step 4 for me would be to again add some rebounding and toughness to our team, which we lost with trading Jeff Foster earlier. I'd also like ot try and remove Marquis Daniels and Shawne Williams away from the roster, to continue our organizational culture change. Here is the best I could come up with:

    Indiana trades Stephen Graham, Shawne Williams, and Marquis Daniels to Cleveland.
    Cleveland trades Anderson Verajao and Damon Jones to Indiana.

    This trade helps the chemistry of both lockerrooms, and gives Cleveland additional cap space after the season in ridding themselves of Verajao, who is a much better fit in Indiana than Cleveland after these proposed moves. With a different atmosphere, maybe Shawne Williams reaches his potential in Cleveland.

    For Indiana it helps our rebounding, toughness, and energy level, sacrificing some 09 cap space in the process.

    Here is our 15 man roster now:

    PG: Ford, Jack, and Deiner
    Wings: Granger, Ross, Rush, Webster, Outlaw
    Posts: Verajao, Hibbert, Nesterovic, Murphy, Frye, Hunter, Kleiza.

    I'd trade Maceo Baston to a team under the cap for a future second round pick.
    I'd release McRoberts and Jones if I needed to to get to the 15 minimum.

    We also now have an extra first rounder, don't forget, in 2009, belonging to Charlotte. We also now have several expiring deals, with the flexibility that brings you. We are also extremely young.


    I realize that the Pacers in reality probably won't make that many changes/moves to the roster as I did in this exercise......which is why I probably won't be the winner of this contest! However, all of these moves I felt were realistic for both teams involved to make, and they all fit the rules of trading under the collective bargaining agreement.

    What is YOUR masterplan? Let your imaginations run wild........

    Tbird
    Last edited by thunderbird1245; 06-29-2008 at 04:03 PM.

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    There's a flaw with your Clippers trade. One would think Mike has told his dad how horrible Tinsley really is.
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    T-Bird

    Who's going to score on your roster then? We'd be lock down defensively, but who's going to score? I think that's putting way too much on Danny with Dun Dun gone.

    Great ideas though.

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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    I am more for the pragmatic approach.

    With all the worry about the cap, I would think most people would be happy holding onto our expiring contracts. Rasho, Foster, and Daniels should stay. I don't really see Mike's contract as a problem if we do that.

    I am not at all a fan of trading Mike right now because he was our second leading scorer and most consistent player. Trading him puts an aweful lot of pressure on Danny and especially Brandon to start producing right away.

    I think the problems with the frontcourt have been greatly exaggerated. Given JO's lackluster production when he played last year, I expect Hibbert's contributions to be something similar, except not injured half the year. Hibbert will be the defensive anchor Obrien wants, and you can run the offense through the post in the half court because Hibbert is excellent at passing out of double teams. I don't think we really lost anything as far as production goes from last year's frontcourt.

    Down the road we may want to upgrade the 4 spot, but I would also like to see what Shawne can do there. I don't think its an emergency either way.

    The only thing that really needs to be done is getting rid of Tinsley. I don't want to give up assets in a trade however. If he can't be traded for an eqaul contract, than just buy him out. His contract will come off the books the same time as Murphy, Dunleavy, and Ford... So there will be lots of options at that point.

    I think it has been a succesful offseason and I hope Larry does not go overboard and make too many moves. I would like to see what we have. We aren't exactly competing for the championship next year.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Phildog View Post
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    T-Bird

    Who's going to score on your roster then? We'd be lock down defensively, but who's going to score? I think that's putting way too much on Danny with Dun Dun gone.

    Great ideas though.

    Well, obviously point production for this one season would be a potential issue. Hopefully, our much improved defense and depth would make up for some of the loss of firepower.

    But, just for fun, assume that to win 50 games, by the numbers, you need a team capable of averaging 98 points per game on average.

    I am assuming/hoping/counting on getting 20 points from Ford/Jack/Deiner at the point position.

    I am assuming/hoping/counting on Granger getting more shots and having more effectiveness not having to guard the other teams best player all the time. Let's give him 22 points per game by himself on average.

    I really like Webster as a potential scorer, coming off baseline screens and spacing the floor. I think playing for us the combination of Webster/Ross/Rush/Outlaw can get us 30 per night on average, with Outlaw probably playing as a big some of the time when the Pacers play super small.

    Now I need 26 points a night on average from my bigs. Lets give Hibbert 9ppg, trying to be realistic. I need 17 more.

    Verajao can get you 6 a night on putbacks and hustle plays. I need 11 points.

    Surely, Murphy and Kleiza can handle that, with the possibility that Kleiza may develop so well he gives you a bunch more production than you are expecting.

    So, we are to 98 ppg as a team, and because our defense is so much better, we should be able to win 45-48 games or so with this group, which gets into the playoffs in the weak East. Because we have Ross, we now have someone who can legitimately guard Rip Hamilton, Paul Pierce, and LeBron James without it being embarrasing. We'd have a shot to advance if everything fell perfectly. Then, next summer we'd have a monster amount of capspace to make a major move for a legitimate big time post scorer. If we couldnt attract one, we'd tinker with the roster and be major players for Chris Bosh or someone like that in the summer after next.

    In addition, we'd have 2 first round draft picks, including one likely to be in the lottery (Charlotte's, that we'd acquire from Denver theoretically in my trade above).

    Thats my thinking. Hopefully, others will have some even better ideas too.
    Last edited by thunderbird1245; 06-29-2008 at 07:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    I would first of all buy out tinsley.

    Second of all, I would trade Marquis Daniels and 2 future 2nd rd picks to Chicago for drew gooden.

    I would sign Austin Croshere to the vet min.

    by the way, everyone who would like to get rid of Dunleavy, why not wait until next year? It gives Rush a year to learn and grow...and ease him into the sg spot, Dunleavy's value could increase (if he has another great year, or even better), and his contract will be 1 year shorter making him easier to trade.

    i would waive McRoberts



    and finally, i would invite Stanko to training camp!!!!


    sounds like a good offseason

    Ford/Jack/Diener
    Dun/b.Rush/
    Granger/Williams/Graham
    Gooden/Murph/Cro/baston
    Foster/Nesterovich/Hibbert
    that is a good looking team...not a championship level team...but a step in the right direction.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    The Pacers trade Williams, Grahm, and McRoberts to Milwaukee for C. Villanueva. The Pacers get a double-double guy who has a reasonable contract. The only thing is would Milwaukee do it?

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    I don't think Foster has that much worth for Denver to do that and I am fine with waiting a year to get a much better deal at PF and having a better overview of our salary structure by letting some salaries expire and re-sign the players we want to re-sign.

    I also don't think the Clippers do that deal even with their disaster at PG. They still have all of the summer aswell to find a reasonable PG or a stop gap there or make a trade to improve their PG position. This would be their worstcase scenario I would say.

    Regards,

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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by eldubious View Post
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    The Pacers trade Williams, Grahm, and McRoberts to Milwaukee for C. Villanueva. The Pacers get a double-double guy who has a reasonable contract. The only thing is would Milwaukee do it?
    No. They have absolutely no reason to do this trade.
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
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    Step one for me is to try and figure a way out of the Jamal Tinsley mess. I don't see the Simon's paying Tinsley over 20 million to play elsewhere, and I am dubious of media claims of Tinsley having knee injuries so serious as to force his retirement, just as I am at the idea the Pacers will pay him off instead of at least attempting to use him somehow in a deal with a desperate club.

    Of course, it will take a desperate club to try and take on Tinsley, a team with no other good options at the point guard position is the only way this could work. We'd need to find a team so dysfunctional and traditionally screwed up that they'd be willing to take this kind of gamble. Fortunately, such a team does exist: The LA Clippers! Here is the first move:

    1. The Clippers sign and trade wingman Quinton Ross to a 3 year, 18 million dollar contract and trade him to Indiana for PG Jamal Tinsley and cash considerations.

    You all knew I'd try and figure out a way to get a premier wing defender to us, and I chose my favorite one, Quinton Ross, to come to Indiana. By all accounts, it appears that the Clippers have no interest in bringing Ross back to LA, so it makes sense that they might choose to get something for him, albeit something as flawed as Tinsley is. But, the Clippers have the worst point guard situation in the league, with little other options as good as Tinsley could potentially be. Getting cash from us is a nice bribe for the penny pinching Donald Sterling. For us, this is a great opportunity to add a great wing defender, freeing up Danny Granger to not have to guard the opponents best wing player all the time. We don't save any money in total here, but it doesnt cost us any either, and we get a very productive, important role player to add to our rotation.

    Step 2 for me would be to get a potential solution at power forward, without risking the entire team's future to do so. For a while now I've been trying to figure out a way to acquire Josh Smith, who I really like. However, If he turned down 11 million per year as reported, I can't see us having the available resources to pull off a sign and trade, or the willingness to make such a long term committment to him at this time.

    So, I've decided that I would pull the trigger on a much smaller, lower key deal that doesnt effect our salary structure so much. Here it is:

    The Pacers trade Jeff Foster to Denver.
    The Nuggets trade PF Linas Kleiza, C Stephen Hunter, and Charlotte's 2009 First round draft pick to Indiana.

    The Nuggets do this because they are in "win now" mode. This is Iverson's last year, and they need a replacement for Eduardo Najera, who is a free agent and likely to leave them. If they complete the trade I anticipate them making with Chicago involving Camby and Kirk Hinrich, Foster becomes a starter for them in the short run, and gives them an expiring deal as well if everything falls apart on them. Foster is perfect for the Nuggets, because he doesnt need the ball to be effective. With the gunners they have, that is very important!

    The Pacers get 2 main advantages from this deal. Kleiza is a potentially very nice player at the PF, one who Denver really likes. Getting him now gives us a year to evaluate him to see if he is part of our future or not. Hunter is just a thrown in, but is still a nice defensive center, giving us a "3 headed monster" of centers in Hibbert, Nesterovic, and Hunter for this one season.

    The main advantage of course is next year's first round draft pick, which Denver acquired from Charlotte last week. That pick will likely be in the lottery, so if everything would break our way we could have another very interesting draft night in 2009.

    Step 3 for me would be to shop Mike Dunleavy. I hate to do that, because Dunleavy is a fine, smart, hard working player who happens to be my Dad's favorite Pacer. But, we need to clear out some money here to be able to afford to keep Danny Granger long term, and we need a different mix I think of talents at our wing positions.....adding Rush in the draft and trading for Ross in this masterplan enables us to make a move like moving Dunleavy for additional help in other areas.

    The question then is, can you trade Dunleavy and get enough value for him to justify dealing him? I scoured the league's rosters, looking for a good matchup for him and his talents. Ideally, I was looking for young players, expiring contracts, and second round picks. I also wanted players with character and talent who would fit in to what we are trying to do here, both financially and in style of play.

    Here is the best deal I came up with:

    Indiana trades Mike Dunleavy to Portland
    Portland trades Channing Frye, Martell Webster, Travis Outlaw and a future second round draft pick to Indiana.

    This is a sensible deal for both teams I think. Portland has to make at some point a 3 for 1 type deal, as they have so many players on their roster they will be forced to lose them potentially for nothing. Dunleavy gives them an upgrade in terms of experience and basketball savvy, and his hidden strength of being able to feed the post will so well will be better utilized here, with Aldridge and Odon to feed the ball to. Dunleavy starts and really is a "glue guy" as their ideal 3rd or 4th best player.

    For Indiana, it is all about adding youthful talent while shedding salary. Frye and Webster are both good fits for us here, and have expiring contracts as well. Outlaw is a useful player who can play multiple positions if need be, and could be moved on fairly easily if the Pacers so desired.

    Step 4 for me would be to again add some rebounding and toughness to our team, which we lost with trading Jeff Foster earlier. I'd also like ot try and remove Marquis Daniels and Shawne Williams away from the roster, to continue our organizational culture change. Here is the best I could come up with:

    Indiana trades Stephen Graham, Shawne Williams, and Marquis Daniels to Cleveland.
    Cleveland trades Anderson Verajao and Damon Jones to Indiana.

    This trade helps the chemistry of both lockerrooms, and gives Cleveland additional cap space after the season in ridding themselves of Verajao, who is a much better fit in Indiana than Cleveland after these proposed moves. With a different atmosphere, maybe Shawne Williams reaches his potential in Cleveland.

    For Indiana it helps our rebounding, toughness, and energy level, sacrificing some 09 cap space in the process.

    Here is our 15 man roster now:

    PG: Ford, Jack, and Deiner
    Wings: Granger, Ross, Rush, Webster, Outlaw
    Posts: Verajao, Hibbert, Nesterovic, Murphy, Frye, Hunter, Kleiza.

    I'd trade Maceo Baston to a team under the cap for a future second round pick.
    I'd release McRoberts and Jones if I needed to to get to the 15 minimum.

    We also now have an extra first rounder, don't forget, in 2009, belonging to Charlotte. We also now have several expiring deals, with the flexibility that brings you. We are also extremely young.


    I realize that the Pacers in reality probably won't make that many changes/moves to the roster as I did in this exercise......which is why I probably won't be the winner of this contest! However, all of these moves I felt were realistic for both teams involved to make, and they all fit the rules of trading under the collective bargaining agreement.

    What is YOUR masterplan? Let your imaginations run wild........

    Tbird
    1) I'd love to get Ross but I don't think we've got the proverbial snowball's chance in hell of actually finding a trade partner for Tinsley. I think the imminent buy out will chase off whatever scarce interest there might have been. Those guys, if they exist, can just await the inevitable and then run the JT risk on the cheap.

    2) I think Kleiza would be a nice addition offensively at PF, not so much in the defense and rebounding I'd like to get out of a 4 though. Of course, the 1st rounder is the real prize. Do you think it can legitimately be commanded?

    3) The Dunleavy deal even by itself I think has a pretty strong argument behind it financially. Not to mention a lot of young talent in a swingman and two frontcourt players who could both contribute at 4 in differing situations I think.

    4) I understand the rationale but this is my least favorite part of the puzzle.

    Without checking salaries, I would suggest a revision in light of IMO Tinsley's absolute untradeabilty.

    I would strike part four and, finances permitting, somehow try to work those guys or some combination of them to the Clips. Hell, maybe they'd even consider Deiner if they're in that bad of a PG mess. The old Quis can play some point might still have a little burn or something. I'd also see about the possibility of getting Josh Powell back in the deal if that's even feasible.

    If that's all we came away with I'd be content. The only downside is all the swingmen but the defensive niche is nice to have covered. Plus I don't think Powell would be a bad guy to throw into our PF rotation. Seemed like he had a decent baseline jumper, good bulk, and was willing to bang yet still athletic enough to play in an up and down system.

    If that could work I'd proceed with parts two and three and whatever we get there is gravy. I just don't know about the Portland thing even with their supposed roster glut.
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  11. #11
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
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    In addition, we'd have 2 first round draft picks, including one likely to be in the lottery (Charlotte's, that we'd acquire from Denver theoretically in my trade above).
    charlotte's 2009 pick is lottery protected. the protection goes down by 2 every year, but still denver might not reasonably expect to obtain that pick until 2011 (unless the bobcats improve a lot more than i think they would).

  12. #12

    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    TBird-

    Some interesting ideas. But it's too early to make a Duns to PORT
    deal like that. With the improved defensive backcourt we should
    have, we'll likely generate some additional transition offense off
    of steals, deflections, etc. But I still wouldn't want to punt Duns
    and his shooting prowess and ability to bring cohesion in the
    halfcourt offense until we see how this group meshes and
    what the new guys will bring to the table in the initial couple
    months of the season when the live bullets are flying.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    charlotte's 2009 pick is lottery protected. the protection goes down by 2 every year, but still denver might not reasonably expect to obtain that pick until 2011 (unless the bobcats improve a lot more than i think they would).
    I just used Charlotte's pick that they have in this deal because as I understand the rules in the CBA, Denver can't trade their own first pick in consecutive years, so the earliest Denver first rounder they could trade us would be 2010. I suppose we could make the draft pick a conditional one in 2010 (us getting the worst of the Charlotte/Denver selection for example), and maybe make Denver give us their 2009 second round pick too, or something similar.

    I've also thought some of the other ideas in this thread have been good. Particularly, if we had to skip deal #4, I'd be fine with that, particularly if I needed to add some of the players I released (or Shawne even) to the Clippers deal to get them to take Tinsley.

    Keep them coming!

    Tbird

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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
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    in the initial couple months of the season when the live bullets are flying.
    Now after the Jax and Tins era why would you want to use that term? We are trying to get a fresh start here
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    I appreciate you guys making up possible plans for more changes, but I just don't see any trades that we can make that make us that much better.

    Even the trades you listed, Tbird, are a bit unrealistic or underwhelming to me.

    Denver isn't gonna trade us Kleiza + a 1st round draft pick and Hunter for Foster. They would be crazy to do so IMO.

    Portland isn't gonna trade their young studs for Juniors bloated contract either. As much as we all like Dunleavy, I think to most of the league he is still underrated with a big contract to boot.

    The Cleveland trade is probably the most realistic one I have seen, but I don't really know if that makes us that much better. Plus we are giving up on a couple young guys with potential, mainly Williams. I think it would be a bad idea to trade him for mediocre players with big contracts. Even Marquis fits a role here that is needed still. A slasher/finisher.

    The more I think about all this the more I think we should stick with what we have and see how it goes, that's my masterplan.

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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    Wow.

    1. You have the Clippers paying $22 mm to a PG that no one wants .......... when they could wait for him to be released and sign him for the vet minimum.

    2. You have Denver trading us Charlotte's 09 #1 which likely is a top 10 pick or top 15 anyway and Kleiza for Jeff Foster ????

    Wouldn't that be like us trading Brandon Rush and Shawne for Oberto ??


    The ONLY way you trade JT out of Indy is if you find a suimiliar player with a similiar contract on another team or if you can package him in another trade.

    My thought would be to trade:

    Dunleavy
    Ford
    Tinsley
    Foster

    to Miami

    Marion
    Blount
    Banks

    We could then trade Marion and Blount to Chicago for Hinrich, Gooden and our choice of Thomas or Noah. If we wanted Nocioni instead of Gooden, i'm sure Chicago would be all for that.

    The other possibility with Miami would be Tinsley for Banks ..........I think Miami is under the cap and could do this. Banks is more worthless than Tinsley and costs $12mm + so Miami would be essentially signing JT to a 3 yr 10mm deal. Questionable that they would do this........they might like a Foster for Blount inclusion into this which would save them Blount's $7mm in 2010 giving them JT for 3 yrs at $3mm. Rumors also have them shopping Haslem although I wouldn't trade Dun or Ford for Haslem.

    Could be a good deal for both sides.....we'd have to deal w/ Banks for 3 yrs but it wouldn't cost as much and he could be the 15th man in street clothes.

    Pacers roster with 2 extra jayhawks:

    Hinrich Jack Diener
    Daniels Rush Graham
    Granger Shawne
    Gooden Murphy Thomas
    Hibbert Nesto

    gooden and Nesto are expiring deals and if our new superhero Brandon rush turns out to be Paul Pierce as some have speculated, than losing Dunleavy wouldn't be all that painful.

    Hinrich a much better PG than Ford as he can knock down perimeter jumper and see the entire floor and can match up better on the defensive end with a more physical style. Also has no health issues.

    You traded away $84mm worth of contracts over the next 3 seasons and brought back about $44 mm over that same time period (Hiinrich is signed an extra year) and Thomas will need to be extended.........but still.

    You have a top 10 PG and an up and coming player potentially at the PF spot with plenty of money to add.

  17. #17
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    All due respect T-bird....but none of LAC, Denver, Portland or Cleveland are doing any of those proposed trades.

    If I get the time I'll try to come up with something before the deadline.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    Dunleavy
    Foster
    Williams
    1st Round Pick (Lottery Protected)

    Elton Brand

    Roster
    Ford
    Jack
    Diener

    Rush
    Rush

    Granger
    Graham

    Brand
    Murphy
    Baston

    Hibbert
    Nesterovich

    It works for the Clippers because they get a very solid package for Brand including two proven commodities in Foster and Dunleavy, some young potential in Williams, and an extra draft pick, plus Fosters expiring deal to dangle come trade deadline time. They also get Dunleavy who could be a big assett to them playing with Eric Gordon who isn't the strongest ball handler in the world. It works for us because Elton Brand is a stud big man who would really balance our team out.

    Best Case Scenario Elton Brand cures our interior defense and rebounding problems instantly and gives us a marquee player to get fans back into Conseco. He also puts us back into the playoffs with a team capable of doing some damage.

    Worst Case Scenario Brand leaves at the end of the year leaving us with sign and trade options or 10 million more in cap space to work with one of the two. We lose Williams and a #1, but having Brand ensures we can replace that in a sign and trade.

    Next move

    Marquis Daniels to Golden State for cash (and I'm talking about like 20 bucks).

    Now that Davis has opted out, GS is way under the cap. Don Nelson really liked Marquis in Dallas and knows how to use him. He might be willing to do a trade like this. It doesn't cost GS any talent, just his 1 year salary and then they have the choice of terminating his deal. For us, it free's up our mid level exception to shop around without hitting the tax.

    MLE Candidates

    Matt Barnes
    Josh Childress
    James Posey
    Mickael Pietrus
    Sasha Vujacic
    Quentin Ross
    Shaun Livingston
    James Jones
    Carl Landry
    Dasanga Diop
    Ronny Turiaf


    My first choice would be Vujacic. I like his defensive ability and he can hit the three and push the ball. But the Lakers could match. So if they did, I would turn to Pietrus who is dying for some PT and is a very good perimeter defender plus would fit the running style. But we should be able to land atleast 1 of these guys, and maybe split it between two of them. Hell, there is talk of Corey Maggette going to Orlando for the MLE so who knows who we could land with it.

    I would also sign Croshere to a low level contract to give us an extra big man who would be popular with the fans.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    Trade 1) tinsley/foster/daniels for ben wallace/damon jones/2nd round pick

    i don't believe the tinsley buyout rumors right now until a more credible source reports it. cavs need a pg and could always use a defensivle/hustle center as a back up. pacers get out of tinsley's contract finally and get pf that compliments hibbert.

    Trade 2) dunleavy/williams for outlaw/frye/webster/rodriguez

    yeah i stole tbirds idea but expanded it a little. i think theres no way in hell portland is able to resign all these young guys and they aren't signing granger, deng or iggy no matter what their fans think. dunleavy appears to be a good fit for that team. oden and aldridge mask dunleavy's lack of defense with their shotblocking ability. williams gives them a nice option at sf/pf. pacers get lots of young talent and a deeper bench.

    PG-ford/jack/rodriguez
    SG-rush/webster/jones
    SF-granger/outlaw
    PF-wallace/frye
    C-nestorovic/hibbert/murphy

    not sure if i got everybody.

    i think this could allow us to get rid of murphy's contract if larry and job feel like one of the young guys are expendable
    Last edited by mrknowname; 06-30-2008 at 11:48 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    you guys are very optimistic if you reckon we have a hope of getting Brand. I think he is very likely to resign with the Clippers or in the slight chance that they wont pony up the dough, he might go to the 76ers who have capspace. I see no reason for the Clips to facilitate a s&t.

    As for the various portland trades, I dont see us getting much more than 1 young player let alone 3 + a 2nd rounder. I know Pritchard is going to want to do some quantity for quality trades but he certainly isn't negotiating from a position of weakness.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    Step 1: Buy out Tinsley

    Step 2: Let Harrison & McRoberts, walk

    Step 3: Trade Foster & Daniels to Utah for Andri Kirilenko. Both Foster & Daniels are ending contracts that would save the Jazz roughly 2M this coming season & more than 16 in 09-10. Utah also moves a player that seems to have worn out his welcome. I feel that is mainly due to the fact that they have been playing him at the 3 the past couple of seasons. AK47 had his best years when he was able playing the 4.

    While moving 2 bench players, Kirilenko would move into our starting lineup, with Troy Murphy coming off the bench.

    Step 4: Package Baston with Shawn Williams to Milwaukee for Charlie Villanueva.

    Step 5: Sign Croshere to the veteran minimum.

    I think we might be a little thin in the middle but we would only have 13 players as of now. I guess just keep an eye on the waiver wire & see what bigs get cut.

    Nesterovic - Hibbert
    Kirilenko - Murphy - Croshere
    Dunleavy - Villanueva
    Granger - Rush - Graham
    Ford - Jack - Diener

    By my guess, payroll for 08-09 would be around 65.6
    Last edited by Jose Slaughter; 07-01-2008 at 03:30 AM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
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    Step 1: Buy out Tinsley

    Step 2: Let Harrison & McRoberts, walk

    Step 3: Trade Foster & Daniels to Utah for Andri Kirilenko. Both Foster & Daniels are ending contracts that would save the Jazz roughly 2M this coming season & more than 16 in 09-10. Utah also moves a player that seems to have worn out his welcome. I feel that is mainly due to the fact that they have been playing him at the 3 the past couple of seasons. AK47 had his best years when he was able playing the 4.

    While moving 2 bench players, Kirilenko would move into our starting lineup, with Troy Murphy coming off the bench.

    Step 4: Package Baston with Shawn Williams to Milwaukee for Charlie Villanueva.

    Step 5: Sign Croshere to the veteran minimum.

    I think we might be a little thin in the middle but we would only have 13 players as of now. I guess just keep an eye on the waiver wire & see what bigs get cut.

    Nesterovic - Hibbert
    Kirilenko - Murphy - Croshere
    Dunleavy - Villanueva
    Granger - Rush - Graham
    Ford - Jack - Diener

    By my guess, payroll for 08-09 would be around 65.6
    Kirilenko is not a bad idea at all.

    I think we could get Murphy and Foster or Daniels in the deal and make them take some more money back.

    If they don't want Murphy ( I think they actually might) included, than Daniels and Nestorvic would rid them of $34mm next 2 yrs to help resign Boozer and Williams.

    I'm not sure why everyone wants to dump Daniels so bad...........I think he's a pretty good player myself....but whatever....if we could get AK47 for him, I'd be all for that.

  23. #23
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    With the MLE just get Carl Landry. A hard nosed and driven power forward that would be
    similar to A Davis.
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  24. #24
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    With the MLE just get Carl Landry. A hard nosed and driven power forward that would be
    similar to A Davis.
    I love the sentiment but whats his situation with Houston? I thought they really liked him and were going to be aggressive in resigning him. Could we realistically get in on him?

    As to the AD comparison, I see the general similarity. I think he might be a wee bit smaller but quicker and more agile. His motor is phenomenal.

    EDIT: Doesn't look like it's beyond the realm of possibility, especially if Houston is targeting any FAs themselves. Drafted Dorsey so they have another guy who could feasibly reprise Landry's role.

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5863210.html

    Worth a look. Who know what other suitors could be in the mix or how the Purdue connection might influence Landry.
    Last edited by D-BONE; 07-01-2008 at 08:59 AM.
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Tbird's "Masterplan for summer of 2008" Challenge

    I have an idea but some people might be against this. I say we trade Tinsley, Murphy, and Daniels to the Knicks for Stephon Marbury and David Lee. Our three players' salaries added up is $23,736,984. Stephon's contract would have us paying him $21,937,500 next season but then his salary comes off the books next summer. Throw in Lee's contract of $1,788,033 and we have a near match...$23,736,984 to $23,725,533. So next season, we knew we would already have a decent amount of cap room with Rasho's expiring, and Baston's expiring. Daniels expiring contract would go to the Knicks who would love that since they want LeBron in a couple years. But imagine if Stephon's 22 mil comes off our cap next year! And we get another piece to our future in David Lee, who the Knicks are already shopping around. The question now becomes, would Donnie help out his former team?

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