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Thread: A culture shift toward maturity

  1. #1
    Member Erik's Avatar
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    Default A culture shift toward maturity

    Here's some stuff most of us already know. But, it's a nice article that tells the bottom line on picks & trades and the whole Bayless situation.
    Bird's focus in first solo draft is acquiring seasoned players who can help right away
    By Jeff Rabjohns
    Posted: June 28, 2008Read Comments(4)Recommend (1)E-mail Print Share Del.icio.us Digg Reddit Yahoo Google A A After watching the NBA draft Thursday night in Conseco Fieldhouse, Kevin Merriweather sounded almost celebratory.

    "It's a new day for the Pacers," the season ticket holder said. "This is the re-emergence. I think we can win right now.


    "I really believe that we are starting all over in a good way. It's going to be a different team, a different start. I'm amazed with what we've been able to do."

    By agreeing to a trade of Jermaine O'Neal on Wednesday and Thursday night's deal with Portland, the Pacers acquired seven players -- including Brandon Rush, who said he wants to be the next Reggie Miller. Indiana also took major steps toward changing the image of its franchise as much as gaining players who fit coach Jim O'Brien's desired up-tempo style.

    Any player whose name conjures images of the Detroit brawl in November 2004 or who was involved in a publicized off-court incident in recent years is gone or clearly expendable.

    "There's no question about it, the culture of the team is going to change and we're not done yet," Pacers president Larry Bird said after his first draft without Donnie Walsh, now in charge of the New York Knicks. "We're going to continue to work on that through the summer.

    "If you look at some of the guys in the proposed trades, they're a little bit older, went to school for at least three years. That's part of the change, more mature kids, some experience and getting guys that we think can come in here and play right away."The deals with Toronto and Portland become official July 9, when the league's moratorium on transactions ends.

    Until then, the Pacers officials can't comment on the trades or players involved.

    O'Neal, a six-time All-Star, heads to Toronto for point guard T.J. Ford, center Rasho Nesterovic and Maceo Baston. The deal also included two draft picks: the Pacers sent their No. 41 selection, Nathan Jawai, to Toronto for the Raptors' No. 17 pick, 7-2 Georgetown senior Roy Hibbert.

    Hibbert told the Washington Post that going to Indiana was a good fit. He excels at defense, and the Pacers don't. His college coach cautioned skeptics not to make too much of Hibbert's perceived lack of athleticism.

    "If there is anyone in basketball that understands that you can be a terrific player and not be a runner and jumper, it's Larry Bird," John Thompson III told the Washington Post.

    Later, in a draft-night trade, the Pacers sent the rights to the No. 11 pick, Arizona freshman Jerryd Bayless, and also Ike Diogu to Portland for the No. 13 pick, Kansas junior Rush, point guard Jarrett Jack and forward Josh McRoberts, a Carmel High School graduate.

    The trade surprised Rush, who was wearing a Portland cap on TV and spent some time looking for a Pacers cap. But he sounded like a player who knew the Indiana landscape.

    "I want to try to be the next Reggie Miller," Rush told the Kansas City Star. "That's my whole take."

    The Portland deal was prearranged on the condition that Bayless or D.J. Augustin fell to the Pacers at No. 11. O'Brien hinted as much when he spoke publicly to the crowd at Conseco Fieldhouse during the first round.

    Bayless, more of a scorer, doesn't fit as well into O'Brien's offense, which calls more for a pure point guard who sets up teammates instead of a scoring point guard in the mold of Allen Iverson.

    With Ford and Jack, the Pacers can move oft-injured point guard Jamaal Tinsley, who has been involved in high-profile off-court incidents.

    The addition of Hibbert and Nesterovic means free agent-to-be David Harrison is expendable. Harrison was suspended this past season for violating the league's substance abuse policy.

    "It's been a real pleasure to watch Larry Bird, (general manager) David Morway and the scouts work around the clock to make sure when we take the court next season, you'll be very, very proud of the individuals that will be wearing an Indiana Pacers uniform," O'Brien said, drawing cheers from the 4,250 in attendance.

    "All the players that are involved in different scenarios, when they are all presented to you as fans, I think you will be very, very happy with the style, the people, the character, the way they handle themselves and the way they represent you."
    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...TS04/806280432
    Last edited by Erik; 06-28-2008 at 08:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Member Erik's Avatar
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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    The Portland deal was prearranged on the condition that Bayless or D.J. Augustin fell to the Pacers at No. 11.
    Interesting, that's the first I have heard Bayless' named mentioned in this prearranged deal. I thought it was a suprise that he was there to both teams.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    After a sleepless night or two...just kidding...I've come full circle on Bird and will now give him some credit. I had a difficult time with some of the moves, but I see what he's doing. He may not be pulling in the most talented players, but they do appear to be pretty good players. I do think the team is improved. The team has been burned in recent past and the only thing I'm concerned about now is going too far in the other direction. But for now, he gets some slack. We need to make the playoffs this coming year though...

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Bayless, more of a scorer, doesn't fit as well into O'Brien's offense, which calls more for a pure point guard who sets up teammates instead of a scoring point guard in the mold of Allen Iverson.
    That's awesome. Drop Iverson's name into the mix, and half of Indy is like "Well we don't want HIM!"
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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    I really like what Larry is doing. It seems like he is taking a page out of the Colts & Pats team building play book.

    As for the Bayless situation it appears to be that the teams drafting where much less excited about this kid than all of the so called experts.

    I think Ford & Jack will complement each other very well. I never cared for Denier personally so I am glad he will be pushed to the end of the bench.

    I think Dunleavy & Granger will help B.Rush develop nicely. I could see Dun Dun moving in a year or so or becoming a sixth man.

    I think Murphy will do well next to Hibbert & Nesterovic though I do think PF will need to be upgraded unless Shawnee develops into that upgrade if he is here.

    I see us making at least one more move before training camp hopefully we can move the Tin Man, I think it is possible with all of the expiring contract we have to package him with.

    This team is going to surprise some people and I think Larry is showing alot of people he is capable of making the hard decision even when they are not the popular ones.

    I can't wait to see what happens next


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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Bird interview after the draft
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh146J6WtMM

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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    so Larry wants westbrook?

  8. #8

    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    I like what Bird is trying to do. But after seeing the bad-character-
    guys-pendelum swing to one extreme in recent years and alienate
    many fans, I don't want to see him try and push it to the other
    extreme asap.

    He once said, 'we don't want just milk drinkers'. I hope it's not now,
    'ok, if all milk drinkers will get you back to Conseco, so be it'.

    You can win with a bunch of good players who are good guys. But
    you win BIG in the NBA with elite talent. I like Rush and am ok with
    Hibbert. But they're the former. I'm not sure wether Bayless is the
    latter or not. But he might be.

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Quote Originally Posted by esabyrn333 View Post
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    I never cared for Denier personally so I am glad he will be pushed to the end of the bench.
    How does someone not like Diener?

    I don't think it's the Colts/Pats playbook. I think Bird has the old Boston model in mind. Taking the best player available to fill the role of a former teammate. Just watch. Given the time, and I don't mean a decade, he will have those pieces in place and wait for the comparisons.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  10. #10

    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    How does someone not like Diener?

    I don't think it's the Colts/Pats playbook. I think Bird has the old Boston model in mind. Taking the best player available to fill the role of a former teammate. Just watch. Given the time, and I don't mean a decade, he will have those pieces in place and wait for the comparisons.
    Thats great if we get our Bird and McHale. The Boston teams won on the backs of their stars just as nearly every succeful team in NBA history. They also took risks and went with a long term vision instead of fleeting short term succes - such as drafting Bird and waiting a year on him.

    I guess I just don't see many parralles between the two.

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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    Thats great if we get our Bird and McHale. The Boston teams won on the backs of their stars just as nearly every succeful team in NBA history. They also took risks and went with a long term vision instead of fleeting short term succes - such as drafting Bird and waiting a year on him.

    I guess I just don't see many parralles between the two.
    What I meant was Bird considering the attributes of those players around him in Boston. I really do believe he is trying to get players who fit the attributes as closely as possible. The one thing he has already accomplished is getting team players. Players that fit into their roles. I think that is huge. Step-by-step he will build more and more toward the vision he has of a Celtic team. Sure, the results may not turn out the same but he knows a winning formula and he's going to do his best to recreate it here.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Quote Originally Posted by Placebo View Post
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    Bird interview after the draft
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh146J6WtMM



    Did anyone hear Bird referring to the Stuart Scott interview as the "dumbest thing he's ever been a part of"? I had to laugh out loud at that one.

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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Rush brothers part was funny too...

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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    How does someone not like Diener?
    As a person or player?
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    Member Erik's Avatar
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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Quote Originally Posted by Placebo View Post
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    Rush brothers part was funny too...
    Talking about Kareem: "His brother can play defense."

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Quote Originally Posted by Irk Woodsman View Post
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    Talking about Kareem: "His brother can play defense."
    Funny ? I personally find it disgusting that the head of our franchise talks like that about our "former" players, a disgrace.
    Are we forgetting who signed Kareem ?
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Well, everybody knows Kareem is not a good defender. Bird didn't get him for his defense either. We needed a shooter.
    So I don't see any problem Bird saying that his brother can actually defend.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    Funny ? I personally find it disgusting that the head of our franchise talks like that about our "former" players, a disgrace.
    Are we forgetting who signed Kareem ?
    The exact exchange was:

    Bird: Kareem Rush is a helluva player.

    Kravitz: What about his brother?

    Bird: His brother is, uhh...better. His brother can defend. We like that.

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    and would you honestly call that a classy remark by the head of a franchise or a remark made in the pub by your mates so you can have a laugh? there's a difference there.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Typical Bird-talk. Kareem has to expect it because he knows Bird and he knows his brother. It's likely Bird is just telling the truth here.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    and would you honestly call that a classy remark by the head of a franchise or a remark made in the pub by your mates so you can have a laugh? there's a difference there.
    I didn't call it anything.

    However, it was considerably classier...well, it at least had more integrity than taking umbrage and being pompous about a line that was both misquoted and taken out of context.

    It certainly didn't have as much intellectual dishonesty as being shown that the quote was a misquote and taken out of context, yet still blundering on in faux superiority.

    Yes, the leader of the franchise is an uncouth clod. At this moment in time, I can think of a lot worse things he could be.

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    Member Erik's Avatar
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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    FWIW, I thought it was a playful jab Bird made towards Kareem. And it was funny, lighten up folks.

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    Default Re: A culture shift toward maturity

    No joke. Some people are way too uptight.

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