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Thread: Bird's Team

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Bird's Team

    I do not, nor will I ever remotely suggest I know as much about the game as a lot of posters in this forum. But I do read about every thread and the reading has been really interesting over the past 24 hours. A lot of the reviews are in and the analysis of each of the players strengths and weaknesses discussed.

    From my perspective, a lot of the younger members (30-) are the ones screaming about Bayless. It's the "superstar" mentality that permeates the NBA right now. It is also what has reduced the game to individuals and not teams.

    I am absolutely convinced what Bird has done in the last two days is the beginning of building a TEAM. A squad that is not dominated by an individuals play or anchored by an individuals salary. Quite frankly, I was tired of hearing about our stars.

    I think the "Butler" approach is going to work here. If anyone knows what a TEAM is it's Bird. Even in his superstar years in Boston it was still about TEAM. I think he had all the puzzle pieces in his head and I think he did a pretty d*mn good job of putting them together. This team has more balance than we've seen in quite a while. And I'm not sure he is done yet.

    You did good Larry!

    PS Tbird - I will be waiting for your analysis now of the TEAM.
    Last edited by ABADays; 06-27-2008 at 02:36 PM.
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    Lifer 2minutes twowa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    I do not, nor will I ever remotely suggest I know as much about the game as a lot of posters in this forum. But I do read about every thread and the reading has been really interesting over the past 24 hours. A lot of the reviews are in and the analysis of each of the players strengths and weaknesses duscussed.

    From my perspective, a lot of the younger members (30-) are the ones screaming about Bayless. It's the "superstar" mentality that permeates the NBA right now. It is also what has reduced the game to individuals and not teams.

    I am absolutely convinced what Bird has done in the last two days is the beginning of building a TEAM. A squad that is not dominated by an individuals play or anchored by an individuals salary. Quite frankly, I was tired of hearing about our stars.



    I think the "Butler" approach is going to work here. If anyone knows what a TEAM is it's Bird. Even in his superstar years in Boston it was still about TEAM. I think he had all the puzzle pieces in his head and I think he did a pretty d*mn good job of putting them together. This team has more balance than we've seen in quite a while. And I'm not sure he is done yet.

    You did good Larry!

    PS Tbird - I will be waiting for your analysis now of the TEAM.
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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    I do not, nor will I ever remotely suggest I know as much about the game as a lot of posters in this forum. But I do read about every thread and the reading has been really interesting over the past 24 hours. A lot of the reviews are in and the analysis of each of the players strengths and weaknesses duscussed.

    From my perspective, a lot of the younger members (30-) are the ones screaming about Bayless. It's the "superstar" mentality that permeates the NBA right now. It is also what has reduced the game to individuals and not teams.

    I am absolutely convinced what Bird has done in the last two days is the beginning of building a TEAM. A squad that is not dominated by an individuals play or anchored by an individuals salary. Quite frankly, I was tired of hearing about our stars.

    I think the "Butler" approach is going to work here. If anyone knows what a TEAM is it's Bird. Even in his superstar years in Boston it was still about TEAM. I think he had all the puzzle pieces in his head and I think he did a pretty d*mn good job of putting them together. This team has more balance than we've seen in quite a while. And I'm not sure he is done yet.

    You did good Larry!

    PS Tbird - I will be waiting for your analysis now of the TEAM.
    Hey now I've supported the trade since I got back from the draft party!

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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    ABA,

    I'm glad you posted this because I've been waiting to post anything until I found just the right thread.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I think Bird has always had the TEAM concept in his mind, and these moves were steps in that direction. I would agree that we're not done yet, but we're starting on the right foot.

    And for all of those who keep comparing Bayless to Arenas, what ABA said is the perfect rebuttle.

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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    I do not, nor will I ever remotely suggest I know as much about the game as a lot of posters in this forum. But I do read about every thread and the reading has been really interesting over the past 24 hours. A lot of the reviews are in and the analysis of each of the players strengths and weaknesses duscussed.

    From my perspective, a lot of the younger members (30-) are the ones screaming about Bayless. It's the "superstar" mentality that permeates the NBA right now. It is also what has reduced the game to individuals and not teams.

    I am absolutely convinced what Bird has done in the last two days is the beginning of building a TEAM. A squad that is not dominated by an individuals play or anchored by an individuals salary. Quite frankly, I was tired of hearing about our stars.

    I think the "Butler" approach is going to work here. If anyone knows what a TEAM is it's Bird. Even in his superstar years in Boston it was still about TEAM. I think he had all the puzzle pieces in his head and I think he did a pretty d*mn good job of putting them together. This team has more balance than we've seen in quite a while. And I'm not sure he is done yet.

    You did good Larry!

    PS Tbird - I will be waiting for your analysis now of the TEAM.
    Agreed with you on this, and I think you really expressed (much better than I could) why I am so excited with the recent moves by Bird.

    I'm really hoping (and I think he is) Bird is following the models like Portland and New Orleans of taking teams that have been in the dumps and going after players that will fit into the system, not just going after the best players possible.

  6. #6
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    You're so wise.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Nicely put, ABA...I was disappointed at first, but warmed to the deal by the end of the evening. There's still that minor fascination with what Bayless could be, but I'm getting pretty excited about the team.

    If, on Monday, you told me this is where we'd be on Friday, I'd be thrilled.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    You're so wise.
    Almost like a miniature Buddha covered in hair...

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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    I'm 29 and I can't stand Bayless (didn't want Gordon either) and love the moves Larry made in the last few days.
    Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team. -- Scottie Pippen

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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Interesting. I think in order to win big in the NBA you need star players. You need them to be the hardest working guys on your team, you need them to get the other lesser players to play as a team. I'll use Garnett and Duncan as two prime examples. They are star players who are unselfish and who promote team basketball. But they are also great players. So sure, build a team, but an NBA team is only as good as their best players. And one thing I know our best players right now are no where near good enough for us to be a 50 plus win team.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 06-30-2008 at 08:38 AM.

  11. #11
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    I guess I should have added in my original post that was has been done to our financial situation was nothing short of genius.
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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Interesting. I think in order to win big in the NBA you need star players. You need them to be the hardest working guys on your team, you need them to get the other lesser players to play as a team. I'll use Garnett and Duncan as two prime examples. They are star players who are unselfish and who promote team basketball. But they are also great players. So sure, build a team, but an NBA team is only as good as their best players. And one thing I know our best players right now are no where near good enough for use to be a 50 plus win team.
    Don't the Pistons pretty much shoot your theory in the foot? They didn't have a true superstar either year they went to the finals. They were the textbook definition of a team. They had some very good players, but superstars, no way.

    Look, what Bird did this week was tremendous. He filled the holes that existed, improved the lineup dramatically and set the P's up to be players in the FA market in 2 years. As weak as the EC is right now, the P's should make the playoffs next year with the roster we currently have. Two years from now when the FA market opens up, the P's will have plenty of room under the salary cap to possibly add a "superstar" to what promises to be a very good roster already. Are the P's going to be contending for the EC title next year? No they won't, but give it three years and I think you'll be singing a different tune.

    I've been a fan of the Pacers as long as I can remember. Since Reggie's retirement, I just haven't followed the team as I used to. I'm still a fan, but the team was horrible and they've never recovered from "the brawl". With JO's hefty contract gone, Tinsley soon to be gone and possibly another player or two, the future hasn't looked this bright for at least 4 years. We've all got something to actually look forward to again.

    I was absolutely thrilled when I saw what the P's did on Draft night. Since I was at work while it was taking place, I missed the announcements and didn't get on the internet until 5 AM CT. I was kind of shocked at the reaction of many on here. I guess I was looking at the big picture, whereas others were looking at the immediate future. It seems that many have since come on board with my take on all of this. I haven't been this proud to be a Pacer fan since before the brawl. I think a lot of us can honestly say that with a bright future ahead for our P's.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Bird's Team

    We don't have anyone on our roster who would have started for those Detroit teams. While Detriot didn't have a top ten player, Billups, Rip, Prince, and the two Wallaces were one of the best starting 5 top to bottom ever. Talent does matter as does chemistry.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Yes, I do love the Butler model and yes, superstars can be very important IF they buy into the team concept. However, there is no garauntee they will (or anybody will). I do know that we have had a so-called superstar and it ain't been working so try the other way.

    Blending in "The Don's" concept of letting them grow and develop as a team, I wonder how much patience LB will have? Can he take a couple of slow years to see them eventually meld together and work as a unit or will he follow the Larry Brown mold and constantly be tinkering?
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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Granted the Pacers don't have the talent of the Pistons team although I believe
    Granger this coming year will merit having the talent to play as a starter on that Piston team/
    Who would you rather have, Tayshaun or Granger?
    Plus give some of these young guns time to develope.
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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    We don't have anyone on our roster who would have started for those Detroit teams. While Detriot didn't have a top ten player, Billups, Rip, Prince, and the two Wallaces were one of the best starting 5 top to bottom ever. Talent does matter as does chemistry.
    I would think Granger starts over Prince.

    Rush's ceiling is probably something along the lines of Rip.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Bird's Team

    If the argument that our best player could conceivable be better than their "worst" starter at the time then that goes to show what a huge a gap in talent there is.

    This isn't to say we suck. I think we got some great pieces. I don't think it is a fair argument though to say, "teams don't need talent look at the Detroit team." In reality they were and awfully talented team 1-5.

    I'm waiting for Rush to play a game before we start comparing him to Rip.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Quote Originally Posted by dewman_32 View Post
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    -

    Look, what Bird did this week was tremendous. He filled the holes that existed, improved the lineup dramatically and set the P's up to be players in the FA market in 2 years. As weak as the EC is right now, the P's should make the playoffs next year with the roster we currently have. Two years from now when the FA market opens up, the P's will have plenty of room under the salary cap to possibly add a "superstar" to what promises to be a very good roster already. Are the P's going to be contending for the EC title next year? No they won't, but give it three years and I think you'll be singing a different tune.
    I think this is the key.

    For right now, we see where this team takes us. Which is probably going to be 1st or 2nd round playoff exits for the next two years... but valuable experience.

    Than when we have a bunch of expiring contracts in 2011 you have lots of options for trying to aquire that "star" player(s) to put it over the top. One key piece + expiring + future picks gets you that disgruntled superstar on a bad team. I think this is a much better method than sucking and relying on ping pong balls.
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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    Yes, I do love the Butler model and yes, superstars can be very important IF they buy into the team concept. However, there is no garauntee they will (or anybody will). I do know that we have had a so-called superstar and it ain't been working so try the other way.

    Blending in "The Don's" concept of letting them grow and develop as a team, I wonder how much patience LB will have? Can he take a couple of slow years to see them eventually meld together and work as a unit or will he follow the Larry Brown mold and constantly be tinkering?
    The "Butler" model is going to have to find a new name. Their recruiting class this year is ridiculous.

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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Yes, I went bat**** crazy when the trade happened. Why? Draft Hype, that's it and that's all. There are real concerns about Bayless, he's far from the sure thing. Sometimes I (and some others) get too riled up about the mocks and take them for gospel.

  21. #21
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    The "Butler" model is going to have to find a new name. Their recruiting class this year is ridiculous.
    In what way?
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    I wonder how much patience LB will have?
    What makes you so sure Herb and Mel are going to be that patient?

    I don't see Bird having the patience to spare. What one must remember is Bird is on a short leash. He only has 2 years left on his contract... same as JOB.

  23. #23
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    agreed with aba's post.

    bottomline for me is that this team appears to have a direction again. bird apparently wants to collect a bunch of smart, mature, tough players - the very opposite of what afflicted us before - and he went out and did it. going with bayless over rush and jack would have been "falling in love with talent" all over again. not saying that bayless will go artest on portland, but rush and jack fit what we're trying to do here and bayless apparently does not. there was a time when we chased talent above all else (artest, tinsley, sjax) and it's good to see that we're not going down that route again.

    perhaps in a few years time, we will be pining for a superstar to lead us beyond the first round. and perhaps bayless could have developed into that player. but, on the other hand, maybe we can't even reach that point without the strong foundation that bird is building right now.

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    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    agreed with aba's post.

    bottomline for me is that this team appears to have a direction again. bird apparently wants to collect a bunch of smart, mature, tough players - the very opposite of what afflicted us before - and he went out and did it. going with bayless over rush and jack would have been "falling in love with talent" all over again. not saying that bayless will go artest on portland, but rush and jack fit what we're trying to do here and bayless apparently does not. there was a time when we chased talent above all else (artest, tinsley, sjax) and it's good to see that we're not going down that route again.

    perhaps in a few years time, we will be pining for a superstar to lead us beyond the first round. and perhaps bayless could have developed into that player. but, on the other hand, maybe we can't even reach that point without the strong foundation that bird is building right now.

    I like this post a lot.
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  25. #25

    Default Re: Bird's Team

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    agreed with aba's post.

    bottomline for me is that this team appears to have a direction again. bird apparently wants to collect a bunch of smart, mature, tough players - the very opposite of what afflicted us before - and he went out and did it. going with bayless over rush and jack would have been "falling in love with talent" all over again. not saying that bayless will go artest on portland, but rush and jack fit what we're trying to do here and bayless apparently does not. there was a time when we chased talent above all else (artest, tinsley, sjax) and it's good to see that we're not going down that route again.

    perhaps in a few years time, we will be pining for a superstar to lead us beyond the first round. and perhaps bayless could have developed into that player. but, on the other hand, maybe we can't even reach that point without the strong foundation that bird is building right now.
    Well if Bird "wants to collect a bunch of smart, mature, tough players" that sounds good.

    However in 2006 when we took Shawne Williams and James White he seemed to have a direction he wanted to go in at that time too. Whatever happened to that?

    There are a lot of factors that can go into this and a lot of things have changed and can change over time. I mean I hope we do get a team full of what you described. If that is what Bird wants to do that sounds great. I guess I am just wondering if he will follow through with it or not or give in to temptation when the time arises. Only time will tell.

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