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The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

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  • The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

    I like to see how things look written down so I did some figuring and thought I would share. Of course some of this won't take effect until July 9.

    They have to cut at least one player so I look for Bird to make a couple more moves. One would be to either trade Tinsley, or buy him out. Plus we could use another power forward, so we could have 2 more trades.

    As is, I think Bird has done a superb job. If the Pacers just buy Tinsley out, and then stand pat, Bird has accomplished a lot!

    1] He's made us more competitive.

    2] If Shawne can move to the 4 spot,
    he's balanced our roster.

    3] If he buys Tinsley out for a minimum of $18m. then the Pacer's likely won't go over the tax line.

    4] And, he's set it up so we will have money to give to Granger a raise.

    Not bad for a dumb old boy from French Lick like some of you mistakingly believe!

    Sixteen Man Roster

    C 6'11 Jeff Foster
    C 7'0 Rasho Nesterovic
    C 7'2 Roy Hibbert
    F 6'11 Troy Murphy
    F 6'10 Maceo Baston
    F 6'10 Josh McRoberts
    F 6'8 Dranny Granger
    F 6'6 Marquis Daniels
    F 6'9 Shawne Williams
    G 6'9 Mike Dunleavy
    G 6'7 Brandon Rush
    G 6'6 Stephen Graham
    G 6'0 T.J. Ford
    G 6'3 Jarrett Jack
    G 6'1 Travis Diener
    G 6'3 Jamaal Tinsley

    Depth Chart ?
    5C 6'11 Foster-7'2 Hibbert-7'0 Rasho
    4F 6'11 Murphy-6'10 Baston-6'10 McRoberts
    3F 6'8 Granger-6'6 Daniels-6'9 Williams
    2G 6'9 Dun-6'7 Rush-6'6 Graham
    1G 6'0 Ford-6'3 Jack-6'1 Diener-6'3 Tinsley

    Main Rotation ?
    5C 6'11 Foster/7'2 Hibbert
    4F 6'11 Murphy
    3F 6'8 Granger
    2G 6'9 Dun/6'7 Rush
    1G 6'0 Ford/6'3 Jack

    Salaries

    Name
    08/09
    09/10
    10/11
    11/12
    Total

    Troy Murphy
    $10,126,984
    $11,047,619
    $11,968,254
    ------------
    33,142,857
    Mike Dunleavy
    $9,000,000
    $9,780,992
    $10,561,984
    -------------
    29,342,976
    T.J. Ford
    $8,275,000
    $8,775,000
    $8,775,000
    -------------
    25,825,000
    R. Nesterovic
    $8,400,000
    -------------
    --------------
    -------------
    8,400,000
    Marquis Daniels
    $6,864,200
    $7,354,500
    --------------
    -------------
    14,218,700
    Jamaal Tinsley
    $6,750,000
    $7,200,000
    $7,650,000
    -------------
    21,600,000
    Jeff Foster
    $5,500,000
    -------------
    --------------
    -------------
    5,500,000
    Danny Granger
    $2,329,805
    $3,289,685
    --------------
    -------------
    5,619,490
    Jarrett Jack
    $2,002,623
    $2,899,798
    --------------
    -------------
    4,902,421
    Maceo Baston
    $1,976,400
    -------------
    --------------
    -------------
    1,976,400
    Brandon Rush
    $1,661,300
    $1,785,900
    $1,910,500
    $2,535,234
    7,892,934
    Travis Diener
    $1,620,000
    $1,740,000
    --------------
    -------------
    7,892,934
    S Williams
    $1,572,960
    $2,416,067
    $3,411,486
    -------------
    7,400,513
    Roy Hibbert
    $1,221,200
    $1,312,800
    $1,404,400
    $2,157,584
    6,095,984
    Stephen Graham
    $826,269
    --------------
    --------------
    -------------
    826,269
    Josh McRoberts
    $711,517
    --------------
    --------------
    -------------
    711,517

    68,838,258
    57,602,361
    45,681,624
    4,692,818
    176,815,061

    Team Option
    Player Option
    Qualifying Offer

    The salary figure's come from;
    http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa...ries/index.jsp

    The rookie scale came off of the player's union site. I figured them.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 06-27-2008, 06:47 AM.

  • #2
    Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

    I've been wondering where to post my Bird draft analysis and thought it wasn't worth starting a thread - plus as a knicks fan, would anyone read it? Can't comment on how DW did for us because I know nothing about our player - I am worried that not getting Bayless, a player for our position of greatest need (but we have needs at every position) will bite us down the road but I can wait a couple of years on that.

    So what did Larry do:

    - JO trade
    - Portland draft-day trade

    JO Trade


    The JO trade is a huge positive. Just monstrous. It happened about 2 years too late but it happened. The team is now nobody's - it isn't Danny Granger's but I think (and thought back when I argued against the idiotic Harrington deal) that he has enough ability to where it could become his team.

    You have a legit NBA starting PG - IF he can stay healthy.

    Your salary situation is so much better it's hard to quantify.

    You also got a 2nd 1st rd pick out of the deal. That becomes Roy Hibbert who, IMO, will be a solid rotation/possible starting NBA center for the next 10 or so years, as long as he stays away from injuries.

    Really good deal. Granted, if you traded him 2 years ago you'd have gotten a lot more for him, but you can't blame that on Bird.

    The Portland Draft-Day Trade

    IMO Bird gave some of what he gained back.

    First, the player Brandon Rush compares pretty closely to is (drum roll) Kareem Rush. There are actually half a dozen others but from a skill set this isn't bad. The big unknown is effort, desire and motivation. If Brandon has what his little brother lacks, he could be a solid NBA starter.

    Their games really are similar though. Coming out of college both had a well-rounded, inside-out game. Kareem was the best player on a good Missouri team. Brandon was either one of the two best (with Arthur) or 2nd best players on an outstanding Kansas team. The one major difference, IIRC (not gonna check profiles) is that I don't remember Kareem being considered much of a defender coming out of college.

    Getting Rush and Hibbert based on where you were picking isn't bad - if I'd been told those were the guys you'd end up with before the draft started, I'd have said Bird did OK.

    The problem comes with the fact that you had Bayless in hand. Now I don't know all the details of why he dropped like a stone draft day but I get very, very nervous about a top-4 talent dropping that far based on nothing anyone can point a finger at. You could say the Pacers didn't need him since they have TJ - except in the Portland deal you got Jarrett Jack (who I've always liked as a player whose value to a team is more than his numbers) so apparently you did.

    There is a chance that Bayless becomes an NBA star. In fact there's a chance - not a great one but a chance - that Bayless becomes that mythical creature - "a franchise player."

    You had him - then you traded him for some fairly pedestrian talent, in NBA standards.

    I don't get it. Even if you knew he wasn't what you wanted, why not sit on him for a while and see what kind of offers you get? He'll have a monster summer league - with his athleticism it's hard to see where he won't - and there's no reason why, if TJ starts at PG and he becomes the 1st guard off the bench at PG and SG, that he shouldn't impress early on during the season.

    A player like Bayless, unless he goes Artest/SJax on you, or becomes Shawne's next shooting partner, isn't going to lose his value very quickly. And again, he could be a very, very good NBA player.

    So ultimately I think Bird did good - but for a while he was looking fantastic. He made the JO deal which was a huge positive - just huge. Hard to overstate how big that was. Then he got a gift dumped in his lap - and turned around to regift it.

    So Bird had a good week but IMO it could have been much better. We'll see how it works out. If Bayless flames out of the league, it becomes one thing. If Bayless learns to defend and becomes a 20-8 player 2-3 years from now, it becomes a new trivia question - The Pacers actually had Jerry Bayless for about 20 minutes and traded him for Jarrett Jack and Brandon Rush.

    You're still a team in a better situation than you were 3 days ago.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

      Good job Will. What I really like about this draft is the perimeter defense has significantly
      improved. That will help the interior defense as well. PF is a little weak and I would like to
      have seen another big obtained. Dorsey or Ajinca would have finished it for me.
      {o,o}
      |)__)
      -"-"-

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

        The radio experts' talk isn't worthy any more than our opinions, but this morning when Chad Ford was asked to name the players he thinks will really fit in and help their team, the name he cited was Brandon Rush.

        He's evidently more of a sure thing that Westbrook, Bayless, Arthur or several other of the big names in the draft.
        And I won't be here to see the day
        It all dries up and blows away
        I'd hang around just to see
        But they never had much use for me
        In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

          Nice tidbit, Will. You did a great job!

          And yes, the sun is shining in Pacers' Country.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

            Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
            I like to see how things look written down so I did some figuring and thought I would share. Of course some of this won't take effect until July 9.

            They have to cut at least one player so I look for Bird to make a couple more moves. One would be to either trade Tinsley, or buy him out. Plus we could use another power forward, so we could have 2 more trades.

            As is, I think Bird has done a superb job. If the Pacers just buy Tinsley out, and then stand pat, Bird has accomplished a lot!

            1] He's made us more competitive.

            2] If Shawne can move to the 4 spot,
            he's balanced our roster.

            3] If he buys Tinsley out for a minimum of $18m. then the Pacer's likely won't go over the tax line.

            4] And, he's set it up so we will have money to give to Granger a raise.

            Not bad for a dumb old boy from French Lick like some of you mistakingly believe!

            Sixteen Man Roster

            C 6'11 Jeff Foster
            C 7'0 Rasho Nesterovic
            C 7'2 Roy Hibbert
            F 6'11 Troy Murphy
            F 6'10 Maceo Baston
            F 6'10 Josh McRoberts
            F 6'8 Dranny Granger
            F 6'6 Marquis Daniels
            F 6'9 Shawne Williams
            G 6'9 Mike Dunleavy
            G 6'7 Brandon Rush
            G 6'6 Stephen Graham
            G 6'0 T.J. Ford
            G 6'3 Jarrett Jack
            G 6'1 Travis Diener
            G 6'3 Jamaal Tinsley

            Depth Chart ?
            5C 6'11 Foster-7'2 Hibbert-7'0 Rasho
            4F 6'11 Murphy-6'10 Baston-6'10 McRoberts
            3F 6'8 Granger-6'6 Daniels-6'9 Williams
            2G 6'9 Dun-6'7 Rush-6'6 Graham
            1G 6'0 Ford-6'3 Jack-6'1 Diener-6'3 Tinsley

            Main Rotation ?
            5C 6'11 Foster/7'2 Hibbert
            4F 6'11 Murphy
            3F 6'8 Granger
            2G 6'9 Dun/6'7 Rush
            1G 6'0 Ford/6'3 Jack

            Salaries

            Name
            08/09
            09/10
            10/11
            11/12
            Total

            Troy Murphy
            $10,126,984
            $11,047,619
            $11,968,254
            ------------
            33,142,857
            Mike Dunleavy
            $9,000,000
            $9,780,992
            $10,561,984
            -------------
            29,342,976
            T.J. Ford
            $8,275,000
            $8,775,000
            $8,775,000
            -------------
            25,825,000
            R. Nesterovic
            $8,400,000
            -------------
            --------------
            -------------
            8,400,000
            Marquis Daniels
            $6,864,200
            $7,354,500
            --------------
            -------------
            14,218,700
            Jamaal Tinsley
            $6,750,000
            $7,200,000
            $7,650,000
            -------------
            21,600,000
            Jeff Foster
            $5,500,000
            -------------
            --------------
            -------------
            5,500,000
            Danny Granger
            $2,329,805
            $3,289,685
            --------------
            -------------
            5,619,490
            Jarrett Jack
            $2,002,623
            $2,899,798
            --------------
            -------------
            4,902,421
            Maceo Baston
            $1,976,400
            -------------
            --------------
            -------------
            1,976,400
            Brandon Rush
            $1,661,300
            $1,785,900
            $1,910,500
            $2,535,234
            7,892,934
            Travis Diener
            $1,620,000
            $1,740,000
            --------------
            -------------
            7,892,934
            S Williams
            $1,572,960
            $2,416,067
            $3,411,486
            -------------
            7,400,513
            Roy Hibbert
            $1,221,200
            $1,312,800
            $1,404,400
            $2,157,584
            6,095,984
            Stephen Graham
            $826,269
            --------------
            --------------
            -------------
            826,269
            Josh McRoberts
            $711,517
            --------------
            --------------
            -------------
            711,517

            68,838,258
            57,602,361
            45,681,624
            4,692,818
            176,815,061

            Team Option
            Player Option
            Qualifying Offer

            The salary figure's come from;
            http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa...ries/index.jsp

            The rookie scale came off of the player's union site. I figured them.
            You have to either be related or a Pacer FO employee.

            Not only did he NOT do a great job..............his 2 day performance ranked 30th out of 30 GMs.

            He went to bed Tuesday convinced 'his guy" (a PG or a post).....("Its one or the other) would be there at 11.

            Then when it became "his guy" wouldn't be there........it sets of a wild flurry of activity where he ended up taking 7 average to below average players for Jermaine O'neal and Jerryd Bayless.

            When Maceo Baston (with all due respect maceo) is your most talented acquisition from two deals involving a 5 time all star and a guy who was ranked as high as 3rd by some coming into the draft.........than well........your spin machine is on overdrive to call it good work. CDR lasted until the middle of rd 2........Brandon might have joined him if Larry Legend wasn't so darn much smarter than everyone else.

            Lets trade Danny Granger and Dunleavy for 7 2nd rd picks in next years draft.......it would net about the same results.

            The upside to this is a couple of things for me , however:

            1. I like teh Hibbert pick.........he could be a Chief or a Mutumbo...........or David Harrison.............at 17.......why not.

            2. I like Shawne Williams at PF and have said so for awhile............he has to be considered a PF for 20 minutes/night at this point.

            3. we should be picking in the top 5 of the next couple of drats, so talent should be coming eventually.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

              Originally posted by Plax80 View Post
              You have to either be related or a Pacer FO employee.

              Not only did he NOT do a great job..............his 2 day performance ranked 30th out of 30 GMs.

              He went to bed Tuesday convinced 'his guy" (a PG or a post).....("Its one or the other) would be there at 11.

              Then when it became "his guy" wouldn't be there........it sets of a wild flurry of activity where he ended up taking 7 average to below average players for Jermaine O'neal and Jerryd Bayless.

              When Maceo Baston (with all due respect maceo) is your most talented acquisition from two deals involving a 5 time all star and a guy who was ranked as high as 3rd by some coming into the draft.........than well........your spin machine is on overdrive to call it good work. CDR lasted until the middle of rd 2........Brandon might have joined him if Larry Legend wasn't so darn much smarter than everyone else.

              Lets trade Danny Granger and Dunleavy for 7 2nd rd picks in next years draft.......it would net about the same results.

              The upside to this is a couple of things for me , however:

              1. I like teh Hibbert pick.........he could be a Chief or a Mutumbo...........or David Harrison.............at 17.......why not.

              2. I like Shawne Williams at PF and have said so for awhile............he has to be considered a PF for 20 minutes/night at this point.

              3. we should be picking in the top 5 of the next couple of drats, so talent should be coming eventually.
              Dude, what would have made you happy in this draft? The moves Larry made has restored some semblance of hope for the future. If you like Bayless better, I get that. But to say Larry did the worst job of any GM across the league is ridiculous.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

                Originally posted by Plax80 View Post
                You have to either be related or a Pacer FO employee.
                I assume you left out a smiley or something? Seems like emotions are still running a little high today.
                You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

                  Originally posted by Plax80 View Post
                  When Maceo Baston (with all due respect maceo) is your most talented acquisition from two deals involving a 5 time all star and a guy who was ranked as high as 3rd by some coming into the draft.........than well........your spin machine is on overdrive to call it good work.

                  Nobody on this planet considers Maceo Baston the best player obtained in these deals. Not the best, second best, or third best even. He was a matching salary throw-in, nothing more. He would probably have to beat out McRoberts to make the team, frankly.
                  The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

                    Originally posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
                    I've been wondering where to post my Bird draft analysis and thought it wasn't worth starting a thread - plus as a knicks fan, would anyone read it? Can't comment on how DW did for us because I know nothing about our player - I am worried that not getting Bayless, a player for our position of greatest need (but we have needs at every position) will bite us down the road but I can wait a couple of years on that.

                    So what did Larry do:

                    - JO trade
                    - Portland draft-day trade

                    JO Trade


                    The JO trade is a huge positive. Just monstrous. It happened about 2 years too late but it happened. The team is now nobody's - it isn't Danny Granger's but I think (and thought back when I argued against the idiotic Harrington deal) that he has enough ability to where it could become his team.

                    You have a legit NBA starting PG - IF he can stay healthy.

                    Your salary situation is so much better it's hard to quantify.

                    You also got a 2nd 1st rd pick out of the deal. That becomes Roy Hibbert who, IMO, will be a solid rotation/possible starting NBA center for the next 10 or so years, as long as he stays away from injuries.

                    Really good deal. Granted, if you traded him 2 years ago you'd have gotten a lot more for him, but you can't blame that on Bird.

                    The Portland Draft-Day Trade

                    IMO Bird gave some of what he gained back.

                    First, the player Brandon Rush compares pretty closely to is (drum roll) Kareem Rush. There are actually half a dozen others but from a skill set this isn't bad. The big unknown is effort, desire and motivation. If Brandon has what his little brother lacks, he could be a solid NBA starter.

                    Their games really are similar though. Coming out of college both had a well-rounded, inside-out game. Kareem was the best player on a good Missouri team. Brandon was either one of the two best (with Arthur) or 2nd best players on an outstanding Kansas team. The one major difference, IIRC (not gonna check profiles) is that I don't remember Kareem being considered much of a defender coming out of college.

                    Getting Rush and Hibbert based on where you were picking isn't bad - if I'd been told those were the guys you'd end up with before the draft started, I'd have said Bird did OK.

                    The problem comes with the fact that you had Bayless in hand. Now I don't know all the details of why he dropped like a stone draft day but I get very, very nervous about a top-4 talent dropping that far based on nothing anyone can point a finger at. You could say the Pacers didn't need him since they have TJ - except in the Portland deal you got Jarrett Jack (who I've always liked as a player whose value to a team is more than his numbers) so apparently you did.

                    There is a chance that Bayless becomes an NBA star. In fact there's a chance - not a great one but a chance - that Bayless becomes that mythical creature - "a franchise player."

                    You had him - then you traded him for some fairly pedestrian talent, in NBA standards.

                    I don't get it. Even if you knew he wasn't what you wanted, why not sit on him for a while and see what kind of offers you get? He'll have a monster summer league - with his athleticism it's hard to see where he won't - and there's no reason why, if TJ starts at PG and he becomes the 1st guard off the bench at PG and SG, that he shouldn't impress early on during the season.

                    A player like Bayless, unless he goes Artest/SJax on you, or becomes Shawne's next shooting partner, isn't going to lose his value very quickly. And again, he could be a very, very good NBA player.

                    So ultimately I think Bird did good - but for a while he was looking fantastic. He made the JO deal which was a huge positive - just huge. Hard to overstate how big that was. Then he got a gift dumped in his lap - and turned around to regift it.

                    So Bird had a good week but IMO it could have been much better. We'll see how it works out. If Bayless flames out of the league, it becomes one thing. If Bayless learns to defend and becomes a 20-8 player 2-3 years from now, it becomes a new trivia question - The Pacers actually had Jerry Bayless for about 20 minutes and traded him for Jarrett Jack and Brandon Rush.

                    You're still a team in a better situation than you were 3 days ago.
                    My sentiments exactly! We are better then a few days ago, no question about it. But, I refuse to pulled over to the positive side of that second trade just yet.

                    Rush needs to be a very, very good defender for me to make this a winner for us or Bayless has to really dissappoint compared to what some scouts and analysts had in mind for him. But, I chilled down from going all out berzerk earlier on last night.

                    We'll see what happens. We are in a better state now then a few days back. Thats the positive.
                    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

                      Originally posted by Plax80 View Post
                      When Maceo Baston (with all due respect maceo) is your most talented acquisition from two deals involving a 5 time all star and a guy who was ranked as high as 3rd by some coming into the draft.........than well........your spin machine is on overdrive to call it good work. CDR lasted until the middle of rd 2........Brandon might have joined him if Larry Legend wasn't so darn much smarter than everyone else.
                      Dude, I gotta ask you a question out of these two pictures, which one is a basketball?




                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

                        Originally posted by Plax80 View Post
                        When Maceo Baston (with all due respect maceo) is your most talented acquisition from two deals
                        You absolutely cannot be serious with this comment. Have you EVER watched any of the other guys play?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

                          I'm giving Plax80 a while to calm down, but I think he's a troll, and I think specifically he's a familiar troll.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

                            I know somebody asked around about trading Tinsley on Realgm...if someone could do that for Marquis Daniels, I'd be pleased to see the results.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Pacer's are looking good going into the Summer.

                              Plax80, I can't think of anything more damaging to your position or point of view than the stream of nonsense that comes from your keyboard, so I will simply quote you.

                              Based on the last couple of days, I suspect this will be a consistently effective way to refute your arguments.

                              Originally posted by Plax80 View Post
                              You have to either be related or a Pacer FO employee.

                              Not only did he NOT do a great job..............his 2 day performance ranked 30th out of 30 GMs.

                              He went to bed Tuesday convinced 'his guy" (a PG or a post).....("Its one or the other) would be there at 11.

                              Then when it became "his guy" wouldn't be there........it sets of a wild flurry of activity where he ended up taking 7 average to below average players for Jermaine O'neal and Jerryd Bayless.

                              When Maceo Baston (with all due respect maceo) is your most talented acquisition from two deals involving a 5 time all star and a guy who was ranked as high as 3rd by some coming into the draft.........than well........your spin machine is on overdrive to call it good work. CDR lasted until the middle of rd 2........Brandon might have joined him if Larry Legend wasn't so darn much smarter than everyone else.

                              Lets trade Danny Granger and Dunleavy for 7 2nd rd picks in next years draft.......it would net about the same results.

                              The upside to this is a couple of things for me , however:

                              1. I like teh Hibbert pick.........he could be a Chief or a Mutumbo...........or David Harrison.............at 17.......why not.

                              2. I like Shawne Williams at PF and have said so for awhile............he has to be considered a PF for 20 minutes/night at this point.

                              3. we should be picking in the top 5 of the next couple of drats, so talent should be coming eventually.

                              Comment

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