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Thread: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

  1. #201
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    So its dead.
    DW isn't here anymore...

    I think Larry wouldn't give a if it's leaked... if he wants to get a deal done he will keep working on it...
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

  2. #202

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    If anything....having a frontcourt of Murphy/Foster/Z/Varajeo would allow us some flexibility to spread out the # of minutes evenly among the 4 of them at the PF/C rotation while allowing us to matchup well against other teams.
    4? Isn't Ike a Pacer?

    The thing about this trade is Ike is going into his 4th year in the NBA which is a make or break year for Ike, so where does Ike fit into your scenario?

  3. #203

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    This isn't the best trade for JO, but I'd be okay with it.

    I highly doubt the Pacers would still draft DJ Augustin though. What's the point in having 2 diminutive PG's? More than likely, they'd take Speights or Anthony Randolph at #11, and Chalmers at #17.
    With Ford's new mock draft, it could be reversed with Chalmers at 11 and Speights at 17.

  4. #204
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    4? Isn't Ike a Pacer?

    The thing about this trade is Ike is going into his 4th year in the NBA which is a make or break year for Ike, so where does Ike fit into your scenario?
    Ike doesn't fit into my scenario....I just don't think that he will be a part of the future of the Pacers cuz he doesn't fit into JO'Bs offense ( much less defense ) and will likely be shopped ( if he hasn't already been ) or let to go on the FA market in the 2009-2010 season.

    As for the 4th year being his "make or break year"....wasn't the same said about his 3rd year especially with JONeal sitting out for a third of the season?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  5. #205
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Just about everyone i know is sick of Jermaine O'Neal here in indy, the guy can not stay healthy at all. If we could pick up another draft pick for this years draft, a decent player in Ford....and free up some much needed cap space. I would do it without a question.

    If you havin' depth problems, I feel bad for you son; I got 99 problems but a bench ain't one! - Hicks
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  6. #206
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop:

    IOW- JO coming on the news and telling how he's decided to have some type of knee surgery or talk about taking a break from his rehab because his knee is bothering him and there's more important things in life than basketball....

    Does anyone want to put odds on that or odds on him reiterating he's not a center?

    -Bball
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  7. #207
    Step aside, King James BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop:

    IOW- JO coming on the news and telling how he's decided to have some type of knee surgery or talk about taking a break from his rehab because his knee is bothering him and there's more important things in life than basketball....

    Does anyone want to put odds on that or odds on him reiterating he's not a center?

    -Bball
    How do you live like this?...

    I don't know if I'm more fearful of TJ Ford's health or JO's. The only good thing I see about that trade is that more than 1/2 of our payroll would be tied to relatively healthy players.

  8. #208
    Member OnlyPacersLeft's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    yaaaaaaaaay! Hey Bird why not just trade JO for kwame brown and a future draft pick and cash? Lets just give him away!
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

  9. #209

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop:

    IOW- JO coming on the news and telling how he's decided to have some type of knee surgery or talk about taking a break from his rehab because his knee is bothering him and there's more important things in life than basketball....

    Does anyone want to put odds on that or odds on him reiterating he's not a center? If it's not someplace he wants to go, he will definately do it.

    -Bball
    Pass, not with JO's history.

  10. #210

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    I have mixed feeling about this deal but it could allow the pacers to do future deals with all the expiring deals we would have! I also think that Kosta Koufos is the number 11 pick if this trade happens. I like him as the pick because he is only 19 and 7-1 265. Per espn "Skilled big man with excellent size, length and good body. Has a 7-foot-4 inch wingspan. Has great strength and good, but not great athleticism for his size. Has offensive skills both inside and out. Nice moves and footwork in the paint. Excellent midrange shooter with very consistent range out to 18 feet. Has 3-point range as well, but is much more streaky from there. He lacks the explosiveness to be an elite shot-blocker, but his timing is good. Decent rebounder. Good passer out of double-teams. Is pretty mobile for a big man. Needs polish and experience. Can be a disinterested defender at times. Lacks aggressiveness at times. Lacks lateral quickness. Can sometimes lose his confidence and then his game falls apart. Needs to be able to handle contact in the paint better." I see more upside to his game plus he is so young. The reports are he has shown great improvement in his work outs. I also think the OSU team was not nearly the same team guard wise as last year so he did not shine this year. I think he could be a good player! I also see Robin Lopez, Darrell Arthur or Roy Hibbert as the 17th pick. Bird has always like size and if they get 2 picks they are going big.

  11. #211
    Member BoomBaby31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Lets do it: Ford would vie for a starting spot with our number 11 pick D.J Augustine... We'll Replace JO with the suprise of the draft Marreese Speights at the number 17 spot and rid some cap in the meantime. So cross your fingers.

  12. #212

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyPacersLeft View Post
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    yaaaaaaaaay! Hey Bird why not just trade JO for kwame brown and a future draft pick and cash? Lets just give him away!


    How much cash?

    You think JO is worth so much try checking out some Raptor boards! I get the feeling they don't think much of or want the Pacers over the hill washed up injury riddened piece of junk. That's putting it pretty politely.

    Ford to them is like JO is to many over here, best thing since velco. Ford's injury is nothing, and he is an 16 point 8 assit player. Sound familiar?

    The ones that might consider JO in a trade aren't willing to give the #17 pick. W/o the 17 pick this trade is going nowhere anyway.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie View Post
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    Why oh why do the Pacers do this trade?

    I mean, why do people act like we HAVE to get rid of Jermaine? We don't. Sure it could be nice for both the Pacers and Jermaine. Maybe Larry doesn't like Jermaine but that doesn't mean you can make a bad trade.

    Look this trade does NOT help our salary situation. Jermaine's contract runs two more years. That isn't very long at all.

    In this particular trade we are going to be left with TJ Ford and Jamaal Tinsley as our point guards? That is a lot of money for two average NBA point guards.

    I do really like Ford but between his contract, lack of defense, injury concern, and the fact that we still have Jamaal (unless he is traded somehow or bought out) that is a bad trade.

    We are better off to just draft DJ Augistin. I think that DJ can be ATLEAST as good as TJ is. Plus he is much cheaper so in the event that we can't trade Jamaal or don't buy him out at least we aren't paying a backup point guard 6+ million a year.

    I'm not against trading Jermaine but this just isn't the right deal at all. If we are able to get rid of Jamaal, maybe this Toronto trade wouldn't be so bad depending on exactly who we get. But as of right now I don't like it one bit.
    I tend to agree unless they have such a high grade on whomever they would be after at 17 that it tips the scale.

    I think Augistin at 11 is the key to JO's future. If we are able to get him than a Ford trade makes no sense at all. What are we going to do with TJ, DJ, TD and JT?? 4 PGs that cost something close to $20mm per long term that produce at level below the average for the posiiton in the league.....at least JO's ha sthe potential to make us a strong interior team on both ends of teh floor ..........something we have none of without him.

    I've always said that you have to get one of two players in any JO trade........a potential top 10 PG or PF/C. Ford clearly does not qualify as that and unless you believe that the 17th pick can produce that player than we would be left with nothing inside either now or in the forseeable future. Oden is still three or four years away from FA.

    I believe you reestablish JO's value early on next year. We've already seen the impact that KG and Gasol had on their teams and so did everyone else.

    My other thought about all of this centers on Brook Lopez. Maybe Lopez is Larry's guy and he believes he will drop to him at 11............and if the Bobcats pass on him he likely will.

    Then maybe Ford and #17 and Lopez for JO makes much more sense.

    I don't know, but I've always felt that quality matters much more than quantity in any NBA trade. We may have a nice roster 10-15 but who really cares about that.

    We still don't know if ike Diogu can play major minutes partly because he's always injured and partly because he can't get consistent minutes. If you throw Lopez and a Koufas and a Rasho into the mix......that gets even worse. If its Brandon Rush your after than that hurts Shawne's devolpment.

    Start building from the top down...........look at Granger, Dun and Shawne and see the makings of 3/5 of a solid playoff lineup. Realize the missing pieces are a Deron Williams and Greg Oden and figure out how to move your remaining pieces to acquire one or both of those type of players...........extracting value on 3 or 4 for 1 trades to "fill roles" is what keeps teams in the lower middle of the league for decades at a time.......winning games in april that don't matter with each win taking more balls from the bin.

    If DJ can potentially be a Chris Paul type.....than I'm all over the selection of him at 11........if he's Jameer Nelson than I have to think about what else may be out there. Take Koufas if he's potentially a Yao or Smits.......if he's Nenad Kristic in disguise.......than move on.

    Memphis rumored discussions with Ny on a David lee for #5 and Brian cardinal leave me wondering why Larry Legend loves this draft so much. If Memphis can't find a player at 5 to help them more than David Lee......than how good could this draft possibly be ?? And NY has been rumored for weeks to be shopping its pick at #6 to anyoone willing to assume a bad contract ??

    So if there arent 5 or 6 players worth drafting, how can Lb be so excited about whomever he gets at 17 or 19 ??

    Keep JO and trade him to a contender later.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    It just so happens that NBA TV is sshowing the 96 draft right now.......

    7. clips- Lo Wright
    8. Nets- Kerry Kittles
    9. Dal- Samaki walker
    10. Ind- Erick dampier
    11. GS- Todd Fuller
    12- Clev- Vitaly Potopenko


    13- LAL thru Char- kobe Bryant
    14- Sac- predrag stojakovic
    15- Phx- Steve Nash

    And Hubie and pitino are in shock that Sac took Peja instead of John Wallace.

    Find the superstar player in the draft and you win........fill a need with a guy who projects to be average at best and you LOOOSSSSEEEE.
    Last edited by Plax80; 06-23-2008 at 07:59 PM.

  15. #215
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plax80 View Post
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    I believe you reestablish JO's value early on next year.
    Isn't that what we've been doing only to see JO's value plummet deeper and deeper?

    We've already seen the impact that KG and Gasol had on their teams and so did everyone else.
    Which has what to do with JO?

    -Bball
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    I'm not sure if anyone has noticed this, but T.J. Ford wears the #11. Now for all you people who bought discounted Tinsley jerseys at the end of the season can take the TINSLEY name off the back and you'll have yourself a T.J. Ford jersey!

  17. #217
    Member Mr. Sobchak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    and so it ends...

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns


    Source: Toronto-Indiana deal off

    Talks between the Toronto Raptors and Indiana Pacers about a trade that would have included Jermaine O’Neal and T.J. Ford fell apart on Monday afternoon, a league executive with knowledge of the negotiations said.

    For the past two days, Toronto GM Bryan Colangelo had been pushing the idea of sending Ford, Rasho Nesterovic and the No. 17 pick in Thursday’s draft for O’Neal. For a few hours on Monday, there was a sense that the deal was close, but ultimately concerns over the damaged state of O’Neal and Ford were too much to consummate the trade.

    The Pacers were concerned about Ford’s future with his past neck injuries, but were willing to start rebuilding without O’Neal and the $44 million owed him over the next two years. O’Neal played just 42 games a year ago, because of a left knee injury.

    The trade would have given Indiana the 11th and 17th picks in the draft, allowing Indiana to take a point guard and a forward. The Raptors have been one of the league’s most active teams in trying to move up in the draft, and they’ve made no secret about their desire to move Ford and make restricted free agent Jose Calderon the point guard of the future.

  18. #218
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Between this and the Bucher report, the word "****" comes to mind.

  19. #219
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Poop. I just changed my avatar...

  21. #221

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    dissapointing but not surprising... who knows though it could be back on tommorow.

  22. #222
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Anybody else concerned that this may have been the high water mark for JO trade value?

  23. #223

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plax80 View Post
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    If DJ can potentially be a Chris Paul type.....than I'm all over the selection of him at 11........if he's Jameer Nelson than I have to think about what else may be out there. Take Koufas if he's potentially a Yao or Smits.......if he's Nenad Kristic in disguise.......than move on.
    I completely agree. If we can get Chris Paul and Yao Ming, we should get them. Also, let's try to get a good 2nd rounder... you know, like G-Arenas or Antonio.

  24. #224
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    ESPN or Fox Sports hasn't reported on this change yet, and I don't trust Yahoo! News anyway.

    Who exactly are these "sources"?

  25. #225
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Bummer.

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