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Thread: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

  1. #726
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    I'm going to say this then embrace TJ as a Pacer.

    We just got a guy making 8-9 mil for three years who has been replace by his back up in his prior two stops. That leads me to believe he isn't a clear cut starter and has problems sharing the spot.

    I'm not thrilled with the thought of a team with MDJr, Murphy and Ford. We just aren't very tough.

    Last post about the trade. Good luck all involved.
    I cannot argue with the facts of his prior situation, however, I think it is not accurate to characterize Ford as not being "tough". While it's possible that he may have a specific physical fragility, he has come back from three terrifying injuries (once in HS, two in the pros) and been as productive each time. If anything, my concern is that he'll be too reckless, but I'd ask you to consider if you'd be as aggressive as Ford has been having had those experiences and playing in a league where you are one of the smallest players.

  2. #727

    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick

    That's my belief that a 5'10 player, a guy Duns size playing 2 guard and a power forward whose best move it the 3 point shoot aren't tough. If you want to describe them as tough go ahead. It certainly isn't a physically intimidating line up.

    Also, I have great respect for TJ coming back from those situations. It shows dedication. I'm more or less speaking from a physical stand point.
    Last edited by Arcadian; 06-26-2008 at 10:46 AM.
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  3. #728
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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick

    I think I have read every post in this thread, but maybe I missed it. But according to this the raptors are getting the pacers 41 pick in tonights draft.


    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3461029


    On the eve of the NBA draft, the Toronto Raptors and Indiana Pacers finally agreed to a trade.

    Sources told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher that the Pacers and the Raptors have agreed to a deal that, pending review of medical information, would send Jermaine O'Neal to Toronto in exchange for T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic and the No. 17 pick in Thursday's NBA draft.

    ESPN.com has also learned that the Raptors will get the 41st pick from the Pacers as part of the deal while the Pacers will receive Raptors forward Maceo Baston to complete the deal.


    Ford's contract makes him a "base-year compensation" player, meaning the trade cannot be completed until July 9.

    The agreement was first reported by Yahoo! Sports.



    Hollinger: A Win-Win Deal

    The trade sending Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal to Toronto for T.J. Ford is a rare find in an NBA deal: Both teams may come out winners, John Hollinger writes.
    Hollinger: A winning deal

    O'Neal had surgery in April 2007 to repair torn meniscus cartilage in his left knee. He came back to start this season but occasionally played through swelling and pain. Before the Pacers announced his most recent injury, O'Neal said the knee hadn't fully healed from the procedure.

    O'Neal played in only 42 games last year and at one point missed 33 straight games before returning to the lineup on March 31. He had his worst season with the Pacers since 2000-01 as he averaged 13.6 ppg and 6.8 rpg after averaging 19.4 ppg and 9.6 rpg in 2006-07. Team officials recently told the Indianapolis Star that O'Neal, a six-time All-Star, and his knee are healthy.

    He was the star of the Pacers' team in 2003-04 that won 61 games and reached the Eastern Conference finals. But he was also involved in the Pacers-Pistons brawl at the Palace at Auburn Hills in 2004 that caused a meltdown of the Pacers that season and put the team in a funk from which it hasn't recovered. Since that 61-win season, the Pacers have missed the playoffs the last two years and haven't won more than 44 games in a season.

    Ford has a history of neck injuries that began his rookie year. He collided with Minnesota's Mark Madsen on a drive to the basket on Feb. 24, 2004 and had to be carted off the court on a stretcher after injuring his tailbone. Ford missed the entire 2004-05 season and his backup, Mo Williams, emerged as a possible candidate for the starting job. Ford played in 72 games for Milwaukee in 2005-06 season as the Bucks made the playoffs, but he was traded to Toronto after the season for the Bucks' Charlie Villanueva and cash.

    In his first season with Toronto, Ford played in 75 games, averaging a career-high 14.0 ppg and 7.9 apg as the Raptors won the Atlantic Division for the first time in team history. Last season, Ford missed 13 games with a neck injury after Atlanta's Al Horford knocked him to the ground on a breakaway layup. Throughout the season, backup Jose Calderon proved more than adequate and took advantage of Ford's injury to land the role as the Raptors' favored starter.

    Nesterovic averaged 7.8 ppg and 4.8 rpg last year, but went from a regular starter for Toronto in his first year to a backup last year.

    O'Neal is set to make $21 million this season and $23 million in 2009-10. Ford has $25 million and three years left on his contract.

    The Pacers will now hold the 11th and 17th picks in Thursday night's draft while the Raptors will not have any first-round selections.

    Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

  4. #729
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick

    TJ is as mentally tough as they come when it comes to adversity and perseverance, as well as not being afraid of game situations. He has that Derek Fisher mentality of "I don't care if this is the 4th Quarter of Game 6 in the Playoffs or the 2nd Quarter of a preseason game with Minnesota" when it comes to making a play.

    I have to agree that he doesn't play "tough" though.

    Given his size, that's not a slight really, but he certainly tries to avoid contact and can easily be bumped off his penetration path if the refs are letting a little lower body contact go. And, while he does pressure the ball defensively, he's not the type to really belly up and force the ball-handler to react to his presence.

    Basically, when penetrating, AI he is not.

    And, when guarding the ball, Muggsy Bogues he is not.

    Those guys were little but physically imposing. TJ is little and easily imposed.
    Last edited by JayRedd; 06-26-2008 at 10:47 AM.

  5. #730
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick

    Also this article says pacers are looking to make other moves and that Dunleavy is available. I also read thay the Pacers are interested in Marion from the Heat.

    http://si.printthis.clickability.com...partnerID=2356

    Posted: Wednesday June 25, 2008 11:15PM; Updated: Thursday June 26, 2008 10:00AM
    Chris Mannix > INSIDE THE NBA


    Pacers desperate to ditch O'Neal Story Highlights
    The Pacers accepted a risky package for their five-time All-Star
    Both O'Neal and Ford must pass physicals before the deal is final
    Ford is quick and a streaky shooter, but a huge injury risk



    Jermaine O'Neal (7) averaged 13.6 points and 6.7 rebounds in 42 games last season.
    Rocky Widner/Getty Images
    How desperate were the Indiana Pacers to unload Jermaine O'Neal? They were willing to accept a mid-level draft pick, an expiring contract and a point guard with a history of neck injuries.

    The Pacers have agreed to send O'Neal to Toronto in exchange for guard T.J. Ford, center Rasho Nesterovic and the 17th pick in the draft. Because Ford's contract makes him a "base-year player," the deal cannot be completed until July 9. The trade is contingent on O'Neal, who missed 40 games last season due to a knee injury, and Ford, who has battled a chronic neck injury since college, passing physicals.

    The Pacers have been actively shopping O'Neal since the start of the regular season. According to NBA front-office sources, Indiana offered O'Neal to virtually every team at the February trading deadline. The response was lukewarm, with teams being scared off by the two years and $44 million remaining on O'Neal's contract.

    O'Neal may just be the first domino to fall in Indiana. Sources say Indiana was willing to trade everyone but small forward Danny Granger at the deadline. "They made it clear they were willing to blow it up," a Western Conference executive said. Contrary to reports, front-office sources say the Pacers have been shopping forward Mike Dunleavy -- who is owed $29.3 million over the next three seasons -- while showing some reluctance to part with center Jeff Foster, who is considered a favorite of coach JimO'Brien.


    With O'Neal out of the picture, the Pacers are now in full rebuilding mode. With Ford and the remaining three years and $25 million of his contract now on board, incumbent point guard Jamaal Tinsley is expected to be moved or have the remaining three years and $21.4 million on his contract bought out. Pacers president Larry Bird also told local reporters this week that second-year forward Shawne Williams is "on thin ice."

    Ford, however, is a risk. An ultra-quick, streaky-shooting point guard, Ford has the talent to be a 30-to-35-minute starter. But Ford missed 13 games with a neck injury last season, the same injury that caused him to miss all of the 2004-2005 season. There is literally the possibility his career could end at any moment.

    For Toronto, acquiring O'Neal means that All-Star power forward Chris Bosh will finally have some help in the frontcourt. Despite an injury-plagued 2007-08 season, it is widely believed that O'Neal's knee problems are not an issue anymore and that had he been playing for a contender, he might have been able to play late last season. While not a pure center, O'Neal averaged 19.6 points and 9.4 rebounds in 2006-07 and, when healthy, is still a force in the pivot.

    The move also frees the Raptors to re-sign Jose Calderon, a restricted free agent who has made it clear that he was not interested in returning to Toronto as a backup. Calderon shared the point-guard duties without complaint when Ford returned from injury last season, but his All-Star-caliber play (13.0 points, 9.1 assists in 56 games as a starter) proves that he is more than ready to take over the job full time.

    Toronto will be hurt by the loss of forward Jorge Garbajosa, a key player in its 2006-07 playoff run before playing in only seven games last season with a leg injury and eventually being bought out of his contract. But with Calderon back and a healthy O'Neal, the Raptors -- the sixth seed in the 2008 playoffs -- could be strong enough to jockey with Cleveland, Orlando, Washington and Detroit for the 2-5 spots behind Boston next season.

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Inside The NBA View Post
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    Contrary to reports, front-office sources say the Pacers have been shopping forward Mike Dunleavy -- who is owed $29.3 million over the next three seasons -- while showing some reluctance to part with center Jeff Foster, who is considered a favorite of coach JimO'Brien.
    That's good because he's one of my favorites as well.

    I'm not unrealistic, I figure there's a good chance Foster will go simply because he's a solid contributor with predictable value.

    However, I'd hate to lose all our scrappy players with great work ethics and attitudes. If we want to instill that kind of culture into a bunch of young players, a Foster and a Diener - who clearly aren't stars but work harder in some ways - are necessary.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    I would love to have a Ford/Granger/Marion core with Speights and Chalmers on the team as well. I don't think that team would be great, but it would be on the right track and we'd probably make the playoffs in the East.


    We absolutely don't need Koufus in this draft. We already have three softies in Dunleavy and Murphy. I don't want the Pacers to be a finesse team, I want other teams to be beat up and sore after we play them.

  8. #733
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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    I'M SO HAPPY!



    I love TJ, I'm ready to move on from JO.

    I'M SO HAPPY!
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  9. #734
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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    ESPN.com has also learned that the Raptors will get the 41st pick from the Pacers as part of the deal while the Pacers will receive Raptors forward Maceo Baston to complete the deal.


    By now I should know how to do multiple quotes but alas.......

    One word sums up my feelings on this part of the trade....sucky.

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Contrary to reports, front-office sources say the Pacers have been shopping forward Mike Dunleavy -- who is owed $29.3 million over the next three seasons -- while showing some reluctance to part with center Jeff Foster, who is considered a favorite of coach JimO'Brien.


    and....sweet. I hate Dun.

  11. #736

    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    I really think that the Pacers should look to move Dunleavy while his stock is high.

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    By now I should know how to do multiple quotes but alas.......
    click the ( +" ) button on each post you want to quote the click post reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    One word sums up my feelings on this part of the trade....sucky.
    agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    I really think that the Pacers should look to move Dunleavy while his stock is high.
    clearly they are. the only thing i wonder is just about is given the complete lack of talent our roster has, should we just hang onto dunleavy?
    This is the darkest timeline.

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    click the ( +" ) button on each post you want to quote the click post reply



    agreed



    clearly they are. the only thing i wonder is just about is given the complete lack of talent our roster has, should we just hang onto dunleavy?

    Showoff.

    Thanks.

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    ESPN.com has also learned that the Raptors will get the 41st pick from the Pacers as part of the deal while the Pacers will receive Raptors forward Maceo Baston to complete the deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    One word sums up my feelings on this part of the trade....sucky.
    Dogging 'em on the throw-in part of the deal? That's cold.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Dogging 'em on the throw-in part of the deal? That's cold.
    People on this message board have a very strong attachment to second round picks. The percentages say that Baston is likely better than anyone who would be available at 41.

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    At 33, Baston is older than I am. We know what he brings (aka very little). He has a guaranteed contract.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    I think it's highly unlikely that the Pacers said "we'll give you 41 if you give us Baston."

    It's far more likely that Toronto wanted JO & 41 for TJ, Rasho, & 17...Baston just ended up being nothing more than filler.

    It's possible that the Pacers threw the 41 in (or Toronto insisted) at the end get Toronto to agree to a deal that already included Baston as filler, but I don't believe it was a 41-for-Maceo addendum.

    Check that...one way I could see is if Toronto said that Kapono would be the filler (3yrs $18mm) unless the 41 was included, in which case we could have our choice of Graham or Maceo's expiring, and we took the cheaper of the two. But even that's far less likely than Toronto just wanting the 41 for the basic deal.

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I think it's highly unlikely that the Pacers said "we'll give you 41 if you give us Baston."

    It's far more likely that Toronto wanted JO & 41 for TJ, Rasho, & 17...Baston just ended up being nothing more than filler.

    It's possible that the Pacers threw the 41 in (or Toronto insisted) at the end get Toronto to agree to a deal that already included Baston as filler, but I don't believe it was a 41-for-Maceo addendum.
    right. i don't think anyone is really suggesting that it was a 41 for Baston trade straight up.

    but essentially that is what i boils down to, no? as baston is essentially replacing someone we might pick at #41.

    oneal for ford, rasho, #17
    #41 for baston

    and i think the fact that he is a guarenteed contract and over 30 compared to drafting someone without any guarenteed $$$ and would be in the 19-23 age range is what the issue is.

    i don't hate it but i would have preferred not to toss in #41.
    This is the darkest timeline.

  19. #744
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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    Rasho should be thrilled playing for Indiana. Baston is the -key-.

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    right. i don't think anyone is really suggesting that it was a 41 for Baston trade straight up.

    but essentially that is what i boils down to, no? as baston is essentially replacing someone we might pick at #41.

    oneal for ford, rasho, #17
    #41 for baston

    and i think the fact that he is a guarenteed contract and over 30 compared to drafting someone without any guarenteed $$$ and would be in the 19-23 age range is what the issue is.

    i don't hate it but i would have preferred not to toss in #41.
    I agree. I would've preferred keeping the 41, but...

    I'm trying to think of the last Pacer 2nd Round draft pick that played any meaningful minutes for the Pacers. Antonio leaps to mind, and Kenny Williams (drafted either right before or right after Tony the same year) got some run, but who after that?

    I guess, James Jones.

    Plus, I still think we're going to end up with a 2nd rounder or two, but we'll probably use it to mothball a Euro again.

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I agree. I would've preferred keeping the 41, but...

    I'm trying to think of the last Pacer 2nd Round draft pick that played any meaningful minutes for the Pacers. Antonio leaps to mind, and Kenny Williams (drafted either right before or right after Tony the same year) got some run, but who after that?

    I guess, James Jones.

    Plus, I still think we're going to end up with a 2nd rounder or two, but we'll probably use it to mothball a Euro again.
    How could you forget James "Flight" White? He has a ring!

  22. #747

    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    don't think you can look at it like that count55. the reason pacers players in the 2nd haven't really performed all that well can be attributed to bad 2nd round picks. there are always players available in the 2nd who contribute immediately or who become solid nba players. i think it's better to look at where those contributers were selected in the 2nd round as a whole (top/middle/late), as opposed to a team by team basis.

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I agree. I would've preferred keeping the 41, but...

    I'm trying to think of the last Pacer 2nd Round draft pick that played any meaningful minutes for the Pacers. Antonio leaps to mind, and Kenny Williams (drafted either right before or right after Tony the same year) got some run, but who after that?

    I guess, James Jones.

    Plus, I still think we're going to end up with a 2nd rounder or two, but we'll probably use it to mothball a Euro again.
    wasn't antonio released, he went to europe, then we signed him as a FA?

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    He has a guaranteed contract.
    And it's expiring...

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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    don't think you can look at it like that count55. the reason pacers players in the 2nd haven't really performed all that well can be attributed to bad 2nd round picks. there are always players available in the 2nd who contribute immediately or who become solid nba players. i think it's better to look at where those contributers were selected in the 2nd round as a whole (top/middle/late), as opposed to a team by team basis.
    Maybe Polian can give Bird and his staff a seminar on finding talent late in the draft.
    Turn out the lights, this party's over!

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