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Thread: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

  1. #626
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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    OK, I took some flak for saying TJ Ford is only marginally better than Diener. Geedz, can’t anyone take a joke? While we’re on the subject of point guards, here are Assist+Steals-TO stats for some PGs of interest:

    T. Parker: 4.42
    S. Nash: 8.11 (81 games)
    D. Fisher: 2.85
    C. Paul: 11.79 (80 games)
    D. Williams: 8.2 (82 games)
    J. Kidd: 8.11 (80 games)
    J. Tinsley: 6.77 (39 games!)
    J. Calderon: 7.86 (82 games)
    R. Rhondo: 4.89 (77 games)

    Oh, yes. Let’s not forget TJ Ford (and Diener, too):
    T. Ford: 5.2 (51 games)
    T. Diener: 3.5 (66 games)

    This just goes to prove that the lower a team’s A+S-TO stat is, the more likely it is to make to the NBA finals. That’s another JOKE, guys!

    I still maintain that TJF is not the answer to the Pacers’s PG weakness. He’s not even as good as Tinsley, and we aren’t thrilled about continuing to have JT quarterback out team. That’s why we’ll take a PG at #11.

    Of course, TJ’s better than Diener. Who isn’t? But just because Ford would be an improvement over Travis, he isn’t the ANSWER. Are we all on the same page, now?

  2. #627
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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I can tell you I was not looking forward to another summer of listening to everyone tell us we "overvalued" JO...let alone having to moderate that crap on RealGM.


    Great...now you have to deal with Raptor and Bucks RealGM fans telling us that Ford is overrated and not worth JONeal.
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  3. #628
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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Wait, stop, everyone....something historic has occurred. Bball is "pretty happy right now" This is huge

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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    What is it with point guards and the #11 around here?

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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    What wasn't mentioned is that to balance the trade out we had to keep Tinsley.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Wait, stop, everyone....something historic has occurred. Bball is "pretty happy right now" This is huge
    That's new thread worthy right there.

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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    I'm sure the Raptors' fans don't care all that much. From what I know I think they didn't really want Ford anymore because of Calderon.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by madison View Post
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    OK, I took some flak for saying TJ Ford is only marginally better than Diener. Geedz, canít anyone take a joke? While weíre on the subject of point guards, here are Assist+Steals-TO stats for some PGs of interest:

    T. Parker: 4.42
    S. Nash: 8.11 (81 games)
    D. Fisher: 2.85
    C. Paul: 11.79 (80 games)
    D. Williams: 8.2 (82 games)
    J. Kidd: 8.11 (80 games)
    J. Tinsley: 6.77 (39 games!)
    J. Calderon: 7.86 (82 games)
    R. Rhondo: 4.89 (77 games)

    Oh, yes. Letís not forget TJ Ford (and Diener, too):
    T. Ford: 5.2 (51 games)
    T. Diener: 3.5 (66 games)

    This just goes to prove that the lower a teamís A+S-TO stat is, the more likely it is to make to the NBA finals. Thatís another JOKE, guys!

    I still maintain that TJF is not the answer to the Pacersís PG weakness. Heís not even as good as Tinsley, and we arenít thrilled about continuing to have JT quarterback out team. Thatís why weíll take a PG at #11.

    Of course, TJís better than Diener. Who isnít? But just because Ford would be an improvement over Travis, he isnít the ANSWER. Are we all on the same page, now?
    I don't think it's a stretch to say that Tinsley could and should be a better PG than Ford. I think Tinsley has shown skills that could put him in the top 8-10 PG's in the league. However, the problem is that he can't stay on the floor and appears to have huge attitude problems.

    Put simply...TJ Ford may not be as good what Tinsley could be, but he's going to be much, much better than what Tinsley actually is.

  9. #634
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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    What wasn't mentioned is that to balance the trade out we had to keep Tinsley.
    Hey...you're onto something there.

    We should go up to teams and see what they'll give us to keep Tinsley. Should be worth a lot.

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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I'm sure the Raptors' fans don't care all that much. From what I know I think they didn't really want Ford anymore because of Calderon.
    Kinda sucks to lose your pick the day before the draft. And an expiring in Rasho. And they've got the dangling sword of who the "player to be named later" is.

    For a Raptor fan who doesn't like Jermaine, it's got to be pretty depressing that you pushed in all your chips like that.
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  11. #636
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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Wait, stop, everyone....something historic has occurred. Bball is "pretty happy right now" This is huge
    It's not just because JO was traded (or appears to be), but because all indications are that the FO was really working to get things done.

    I wasn't getting the feeling the holdup was the Pacers wanting too much or playing a game of chicken without any seatbelts on. The leaks and snippets all seemed to be about the teams working to make it happen and do what is best for both teams.

    So yes... I see this as an indication maybe the Pacers are going to be a more active team and I like that.

    -Bball
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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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  12. #637

    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by madison View Post
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    OK, I took some flak for saying TJ Ford is only marginally better than Diener. Geedz, canít anyone take a joke? While weíre on the subject of point guards, here are Assist+Steals-TO stats for some PGs of interest:

    T. Parker: 4.42
    S. Nash: 8.11 (81 games)
    D. Fisher: 2.85
    C. Paul: 11.79 (80 games)
    D. Williams: 8.2 (82 games)
    J. Kidd: 8.11 (80 games)
    J. Tinsley: 6.77 (39 games!)
    J. Calderon: 7.86 (82 games)
    R. Rhondo: 4.89 (77 games)

    Oh, yes. Letís not forget TJ Ford (and Diener, too):
    T. Ford: 5.2 (51 games)
    T. Diener: 3.5 (66 games)

    This just goes to prove that the lower a teamís A+S-TO stat is, the more likely it is to make to the NBA finals. Thatís another JOKE, guys!

    I still maintain that TJF is not the answer to the Pacersís PG weakness. Heís not even as good as Tinsley, and we arenít thrilled about continuing to have JT quarterback out team. Thatís why weíll take a PG at #11.

    Of course, TJís better than Diener. Who isnít? But just because Ford would be an improvement over Travis, he isnít the ANSWER. Are we all on the same page, now?

    What book are you reading?

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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    The point is, we don't know. What we do know is Donnie is gone. There are no more excuses. Larry's in charge, it's his show, which means we start judging him now. Not "in a few years". The line has been moved more than enough already, it needs to stop.
    So if we suck this season Larry should be fired after his first year of running the entire show? How would that be fair? Blow it all up and start over again? Bird's already here for this season, you're against him being here next season? I'm not sure what you are even saying you want them to do?

    I'm giving Bird a fresh start and a few seasons, you certainly don't have to. March in front of Conseco with a sign asking for Bird's head on a stick if it makes you feel better. I'm not changing my opinion on the matter.

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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    I agree with count55 that someone should pay US to keep JT. On the other hand, I'm afraid UB is right. No one wants him which is why he's still here. Let's just buy him out and move on.

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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
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    who all do we get in the trade ?
    The three brothers:

    Injured Nobody with a big contract that is longer than JO's.

    Backup Bigman Expiring Contract Nobody

    Unnamed Expiring Contract Nobody. But it needs to be about $5 million, so that only leaves: Bargnari, Parker, and perhaps Garbajosa as part of his buy-out.

    Hmmm, I've been saying the only way to trade him is to get his salary off the books even faster. Now if we can just find somebody else to take TJ Ford off the books before he gets hurt again...

    And I don't like the outcome of draft-day trades with Toronto.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  16. #641
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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    The three brothers:

    Injured Nobody with a big contract that is longer than JO's.

    Backup Bigman Expiring Contract Nobody

    Unnamed Expiring Contract Nobody. But it needs to be about $5 million, so that only leaves: Bargnari, Parker, and perhaps Garbajosa as part of his buy-out.

    Hmmm, I've been saying the only way to trade him is to get his salary off the books even faster. Now if we can just find somebody else to take TJ Ford off the books before he gets hurt again...

    And I don't like the outcome of draft-day trades with Toronto.
    I look at this trade as "payback" for Toronto.

    They owed us!
    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  17. #642

    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    I cringed last summer when we didn't trade JO, and then again at the trade deadline. It's such a relief to have him gone. I don't care if it was a huge contract coming off in 2 years. Just seeing some new guys and not worrying about JO's health is worth not having the full 20 mil off after his contract. This is the first time in the last couple of years that I really don't care if Tinlsey is on the roster. I've considered JO to be the bigger burden. Sure I hope Tinsley is sent packing, but this trade is what I've been waiting for. It just has me thinking that we could start to look like the Hawks of a few years back. Young with a terrible record but still fun to watch, which is fine with me (for now).

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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I look at this trade as "payback" for Toronto.

    They owed us!
    -Bball
    You really are in a good mood.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  19. #644
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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I think it will only be you and I that post in it.

    Everybody else's loss I guess.

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  20. #645

    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by madison View Post
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    I agree with count55 that someone should pay US to keep JT. On the other hand, I'm afraid UB is right. No one wants him which is why he's still here. Let's just buy him out and move on.

    I have said for over a year the Simons wouldn't buy out Tinjury, but I'm not so sure now. I truly hate to see it happen, but at the same time I don't see any GM taking Tinsley's contract or his baggage. The Simons can't afford anymore bad PR created by him. It may just take a buyout to finally to move him.

  21. #646
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I'm sure the Raptors' fans don't care all that much. From what I know I think they didn't really want Ford anymore because of Calderon.
    No, The Front Office wanted Calderon, but Ford had a pretty large contingent of supporters, at least on the RealGM board, which is one of the most active forums.

  22. #647
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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
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    So if we suck this season Larry should be fired after his first year of running the entire show? How would that be fair? Blow it all up and start over again? Bird's already here for this season, you're against him being here next season? I'm not sure what you are even saying you want them to do?

    I'm giving Bird a fresh start and a few seasons, you certainly don't have to. March in front of Conseco with a sign asking for Bird's head on a stick if it makes you feel better. I'm not changing my opinion on the matter.
    I'm not talking about firing the guy (even though you all know I wish he was gone.) But not judging a guy means giving him a free pass. He's in the big chair now, being critiqued is part of the job.

    If he drafts, as I believe it was Shade who put it, "Koufos and a box of corn-flakes" tomorrow, are you just gonna say, "Well, gee, can't complain about that. We've gotta give it a few years first."

    I'm sick to death of the "you can't criticize such-and-such" mentality around here. It's a freakin' internet message board! Are we just supposed to sit around and sing kumbaya and hope it all works out?
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  23. #648
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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by Plax80 View Post
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    I still don't see the point in agreeing to this today of all days. Wouldn't it have been a whole lot smarter to wait until at least the 17th pick to announce this or even agree to it.

    You could have even told Colangelo that it was 99% done.........but that if it leaked the % would get smaller.

    You now have told the rest of the league that the guy you are targeting at 11 is not DJ Augustin after all.

    Why would you do that???

    Thats DUMB !!!!!!!

    If Hibbert is your guy at 11........than anyone else who might be interested .........GS perhaps.........is now calling Jersey to move up 4 spots.

    If Larry comes out of tomorrow with Ford, Hibbert and an interesting prospect or 2 at 17 and 41 than it may be a great day for him and the franchise...........but that still won't change my opinion of agreeing to this trade the day before the draft.
    What if you are still highly interested in Agustin if he's still on the board at 11?
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

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  24. #649
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    Default Re: Yahoo!Sports Reports JO to TOR Trade Agreed To In Principle

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    I'm not talking about firing the guy (even though you all know I wish he was gone.) But not judging a guy means giving him a free pass. He's in the big chair now, being critiqued is part of the job.

    If he drafts, as I believe it was Shade who put it, "Koufos and a box of corn-flakes" tomorrow, are you just gonna say, "Well, gee, can't complain about that. We've gotta give it a few years first."

    I'm sick to death of the "you can't criticize such-and-such" mentality around here. It's a freakin' internet message board! Are we just supposed to sit around and sing kumbaya and hope it all works out?


    Actually, it was me who said "Koufos and a Box of Corn Flakes", and I think I'd prefer the box of Corn Flakes out of the two...at least you have to pour milk on it for it to be soft and mushy.

  25. #650
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    Default Re: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick

    Plax, I doubt that Toronto wanted to go into the draft with an unknown trade possibility.
    They most likely had other trade options to decide on. If I am Toronto I would not accept
    that.
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