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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

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Indianapolis Star

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Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

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However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

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Rule #11

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Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

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  • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Originally posted by Tom White View Post
    Okay, here we go again.

    Ford and Rasho combined make about $16.5M THIS YEAR.
    This coming year is the last on Rasho's contract. The Pacers would be saving big bucks the following year, after his contract has expired. They would only be paying Ford's contract of about $8.5M (plus whatever fillers were still around) instead of O'Neal's $23M (or whatever close figure it is).

    See the difference?
    Ford's contract is one year longer, so that is something to consider

    Comment


    • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

      ***k.

      “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

      “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

      Comment


      • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

        True, but if I had to pay $24mm two years in a row, or a little less for one year, and much less the two years after that, I'd probably do it.

        Comment


        • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

          Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
          Ford's contract is one year longer, so that is something to consider
          I believe that, if the deal was done in (late) July so that you could use the draft pick's salary and Ford clears BYC, the total contracts would be around $40mm coming in from Toronto vs. $44mm going out.

          Ford - $24.8
          Rasho - $8.4
          #17 - $7.0 (over four years)

          $40.2 total

          JO = $44.4 mm

          It would also put us in a position to stay below the luxury tax for next year with a full 14- or 15-man roster, whereas virtually any scenario with JO on the roster for next year puts us as $71mm in guaranteed salaries (the estimated tax threshhold) with only 12 players under contract.

          Yes, it does add Ford's $8.3mm to the 2010-2011 season, as well as around $2mm for the draft pick, but those would be two relatively young players, and our total cap commitment (prior to Danny and the 2009 & 2010 1st Rounders) would be about $42mm.

          It's not a perfect solution, but I think the tax savings, coupled with the revenue enhancement (for being below the tax) would reasonably offset that third year issue. Not to mention that $38.5mm (Murphy, Dunleavy, Tinsley (or substitute), and Ford) of that commitment would be movable, expiring contracts going into that season.

          Comment


          • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

            If it's dead or at least currently cooling its heels, wonder what the impediment was? Seems like Toronto would have more reasons to balk.

            -Other Ford suitors?

            -JO's contract?

            -Don't want to include 17?

            The injury histories of both Ford and JO in and of themselves seem to cancel out those respective concerns. Add the price tag to each player, however, and that seems to attach more risk to Toronto's investment in the deal.
            I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

            -Emiliano Zapata

            Comment


            • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

              Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
              If it's dead or at least currently cooling its heels, wonder what the impediment was? Seems like Toronto would have more reasons to balk.

              -Other Ford suitors?

              -JO's contract?

              -Don't want to include 17?

              The injury histories of both Ford and JO in and of themselves seem to cancel out those respective concerns. Add the price tag to each player, however, and that seems to attach more risk to Toronto's investment in the deal.
              I think the speculation is both teams have concerns about the health of the players they would receive.

              Let's face it. Toronto worries less about having $8M per year wrapped up in a player with health concerns, than they would have to worry if they were paying $23M per year to a player with health problems.

              Comment


              • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

                After reading 261 posts on this, I can't imagine a time I've disagreed on a topic with more people here.

                This trade is horrible. I'd rather set JO on fire than add yet another example of overpaying for mediocrity to our roster.

                If we really want an undersized PG who can't guard anyone and projects to be at best the 20th best starting PG in the League, why not just take DJ at 11 for 1/5 of TJ's price tag and without the congential spine disorder?

                This deal disgusts me.
                Read my Pacers blog:
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                Comment


                • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

                  How do you really feel about it?

                  Comment


                  • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

                    Ambivalent.
                    Read my Pacers blog:
                    8points9seconds.com

                    Follow my twitter:

                    @8pts9secs

                    Comment


                    • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

                      Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
                      After reading 261 posts on this, I can't imagine a time I've disagreed on a topic with more people here.

                      This trade is horrible. I'd rather set JO on fire than add yet another example of overpaying for mediocrity to our roster.

                      If we really want an undersized PG who can't guard anyone and projects to be at best the 20th best starting PG in the League, why not just take DJ at 11 for 1/5 of TJ's price tag and without the congential spine disorder?

                      This deal disgusts me.
                      depends on whose at 17, but the expiring rasho would be nice. add that to tinsley, shawne williams, and daniels and one might target elton brand or shawn marion...
                      Last edited by MyFavMartin; 06-24-2008, 11:52 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

                        Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
                        After reading 261 posts on this, I can't imagine a time I've disagreed on a topic with more people here.

                        This trade is horrible. I'd rather set JO on fire than add yet another example of overpaying for mediocrity to our roster.

                        If we really want an undersized PG who can't guard anyone and projects to be at best the 20th best starting PG in the League, why not just take DJ at 11 for 1/5 of TJ's price tag and without the congential spine disorder?

                        This deal disgusts me.
                        I won't go so far as setting anyone on fire, but I will admit that the thought you bring up about Agustin did cross my mind. At this point, if this deal went down, I think I would proceed with low expectation given our returns but feel some relief that the dismantling of the recent core was moving forward.

                        JayRedd, can you describe what you think a palatable deal for JO might include at this point? I don't think this one is all that shabby given my estimation of his value. Of course, I have doubts as to his ability to raise that value if we keep him And cannot say with much confidence that I think we'll be much better than the last couple years with him.
                        I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                        -Emiliano Zapata

                        Comment


                        • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

                          Here's what I want:

                          A) One Rasho/Wally-sized expiring
                          B) One fairly paid player of value
                          C) filler

                          I really don't think that's unreasonable, regardless of JO's plummeting value. I mean, I wasn't in love with that Cleveland deal proposed earlier, but that was more in line with what we need.

                          Becauset the number one -- and unconditional -- factor is that we take on no more problems.

                          And, to me, TJ Ford is just another problem. It's basically refinancing your Tinsley mortgage on a guy with even less upside. He's another rigid asset that you can't move easilly because he's overpaid and locked up for multiple years. No GM in this league wants that anymore. Nor is he capable of playing over 30 mpg due to fragility and defensive liabilities. We wanna pay 8.5 for that for the next three years? Champ-ion-ship!
                          Last edited by JayRedd; 06-24-2008, 11:57 AM.
                          Read my Pacers blog:
                          8points9seconds.com

                          Follow my twitter:

                          @8pts9secs

                          Comment


                          • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

                            Its pretty hard to have less upside than Tinsley.


                            Comment


                            • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

                              Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
                              After reading 261 posts on this, I can't imagine a time I've disagreed on a topic with more people here.

                              This trade is horrible. I'd rather set JO on fire than add yet another example of overpaying for mediocrity to our roster.

                              If we really want an undersized PG who can't guard anyone and projects to be at best the 20th best starting PG in the League, why not just take DJ at 11 for 1/5 of TJ's price tag and without the congential spine disorder?

                              This deal disgusts me.
                              while i'm not a flamer as you seem to be, i'm not tremendously thrilled with the deal. that being said, i see the financial benefit of paying TJ $8mil for 2 seasons than paying JO $22mil for 1. especially when we need to re-sign danny.

                              i agree completely about overpaying mediocrity (which we clearly have a history of) but i think that at this point choosing to pay $17mil for TJ's mediocrity vs. paying $44mil for JO's mediocrity is something to consider.

                              how do you feel this compares to the hughes/gooden rumors that were floating after the season ended?
                              Last edited by avoidingtheclowns; 06-24-2008, 11:59 AM.
                              This is the darkest timeline.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

                                I question whether the people claiming Ford is mediocre have ever seen him play more than a very small handful of times.

                                If he's traded here, and plays 30-35 minutes a night, he'll give us between 14-18 ppg and 8-10 apg.

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