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Thread: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

  1. #226
    Member CableKC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Anybody else concerned that this may have been the high water mark for JO trade value?
    Nope.....right now...this is the best that I can expect for him.

    IMHO....the going rate for an All-Star caliber player was set by the KG, Iverson and Gasol ( to a certain extent ) trades over the last couple of years. The going rate for any All-Star is a single ( at most multiple ) 1st round pick ( this year or next years ), some prospect(s) and some Expiring Contract....basically your standard "rebuilding" trade that the TWolves, Sixers and Grizzlies made.

    In this case...we didn't get that ( since Ford has injury concerns and a huge contract )....JONeal isn't a real All-Star anymore and has some serious injury concerns. But if the deal went through.....we could have gotten a 1st round pick, a player with comprable injury concerns and a decent sized Expiring Contract....which I could come to tolerate and accept going forward.
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  2. #227

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    My thoughts on this trade.. It was leaked to see how the media and fans from both sides would react and to let other teams interested in JO know that he may be off the market soon, so they needed to up their antes' and make their final offers.

    I will go out on a line and say that if Toronto doesn't take him no one else will, too big a contract.

  3. #228
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Anybody else concerned that this may have been the high water mark for JO trade value?
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    I don't believe what I read on a Yahoo sports site or any other for that matter. I'll wait to see Well's disclaimor in tomorrow's IS. Then I will say, "See, I told you it was too early to believe this trade."

    OTOH...if it were legit then I do not believe that it is dead, merely resting.
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Isn't that what we've been doing only to see JO's value plummet deeper and deeper?



    Which has what to do with JO?

    -Bball
    Agreed......so why trade him now ?

    If you just want to dump him for an expiring deal........trade him for Marbury......who is probbaly a better player than TJ Ford......certainly has more upside...........and who comes off the books next year and keeps you from having to take Rasho.

    The Knicks would likely swap picks with you in that deal as well.

    I didn't say that I wouldn't trade him..........just not for TJ Ford unless you are convinced Ford's neck is not a problem.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by YoSoyIndy View Post
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    I completely agree. If we can get Chris Paul and Yao Ming, we should get them. Also, let's try to get a good 2nd rounder... you know, like G-Arenas or Antonio.

    My point is to scout for the best potential player long term and not draft to fill a need with a marginal player.

    I'll almost guarantee that there will be three or four all star players drafted after #10.

    In fact on our 60 win team....we had

    Jo picked in the 20's
    Artest picked at about 15
    Brad Miller picked in round 2
    Reggie picked at 11
    tinsley picked at 27

    Can Larry pick one of the All Stars ??

    He's done well with Granger and Williams......so there is a bit of hope.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    People really have no idea just how talented T.J. Ford is. He's very capable of putting up 17 and 9.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Anybody else concerned that this may have been the high water mark for JO trade value?
    Thought did cross my mind. Over in the Chad Ford on 1070 thread, it was reported that Ford said regarding the JO to Toronto rumor that he thought the Pacers could do better. I wonder what he means by better? I found that remark surprising.
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plax80 View Post
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    He's done well with Granger and Williams......so there is a bit of hope.
    You think he did well with Shawne when he left Rhondo on the board?
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Anybody else concerned that this may have been the high water mark for JO trade value?

    Maybe.

    As others have said, the market for aging, expensive former all stars is an expiring deal, a first rd pick, and filler.

    Next years draft is suppossed to be weaker than this one.......so even if a contender goes after him next Frebruary, they are trading a late first and something else.........but matbe it gives you the ability to see who that team takes this year and if that player and another first is enough compensation.

    In this case you had to decide if Darrel Arthur or Javelle Mcgee or whomever at 17 is enough of a return to warrant trading him. Ford isn't much of an upgrade over Tinsley.

    You aren't really saving any money since Ford and Rasho almost make as much between them as JO.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    You think he did well with Shawne when he left Rhondo on the board?

    Thats a tough question. For me on our team, I still like Williams' long term potential better than Rondo.

    One of the reasons I wouldn't mind any JO trade is that I would like to see him get more minutes at PF as his body matures.

  12. #237

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    You think he did well with Shawne when he left Rhondo on the board?
    his teammates make him look better than he really is imo

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    You think he did well with Shawne when he left Rhondo on the board?

    Can you really grade Williams yet? Come on, he would of what been a senior? Give him a lil time. I guess that means Steve Nash would of been a bust after his first few seasons.

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  14. #239

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    I'm not sure if this deal is dead or another one isn't heating up. Bird is pretty sure they are getting a second 1st round pick. I wouldn't be overly excited or dissappointed about the Toronto deal. But, my thinking is couldn't the Pacers pull another 1st round pick without JO? I'm pretty sure Foster can get the Pacers another lst round pick. If the Pacers were to do the Toronto deal, I'm almost certain it would be Arthur at 11 and the best available guard at 17 whether it's Chalmers, Rush, or Augustin. Although, keep an eye on Ajinca, he is getting alot of buzz from teams.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrknowname View Post
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    his teammates make him look better than he really is imo
    They probably do, but he had some great moments in that series. I had not watched much of him until the Lakers series and I came away pretty amazed at how good he is. He is not the prototypical PG, but he really can make plays and defends very well. He is also completely fearless particularly for a young player. BTW, we would not even be thinking of drafting a PG right now if we had him...

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Yeah Rondo wouldn't get 16 assists if he didn't have Pierce Allen and KG to pass to.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMltKsoDwe8&NR=1
    press pause on the second slow-mo replay around 0:12 mark

  17. #242
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    2 ) Much like how the Raptors COULD be using this to put pressure on the Suns to make a deal with them....assuming that there is some validity to the JO to Cavs rumors....does anyone else think that this could be a way for TPTB to put pressure on the Cavs to accept a deal involving JO for Varajeo/Z/19 ( instead of the rumored Varajeo/Wally/19 pick )?
    I would much much rather have wally's huge expiring contract than big Z. The guy is very old, a poor fit for our system, and his contract is two more years, as opposed to wally's one.

    Varejo/wally/19 is the better deal.
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  18. #243

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by eldubious View Post
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    If the Pacers were to do the Toronto deal, I'm almost certain it would be Arthur at 11 and the best available guard at 17 whether it's Chalmers, Rush, or Augustin.
    I hope that you are right, I am a huge KU fan as well as a huge Pacers fan. If we were to get one Jayhawk I would be in heaven.....let alone two.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by bambam View Post
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    Can you really grade Williams yet? Come on, he would of what been a senior? Give him a lil time. I guess that means Steve Nash would of been a bust after his first few seasons.

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  20. #245
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    count me in for this trade.
    draft Speights and Rush respectively OR do anything in our power to finagle a high enough draft pick to get Bayless (speculatively the #4 pick...highly unlikely)
    Reggie Miller is a God. Period.

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  21. #246

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plax80 View Post
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    Agreed......so why trade him now ?

    If you just want to dump him for an expiring deal........trade him for Marbury......who is probbaly a better player than TJ Ford......certainly has more upside...........and who comes off the books next year and keeps you from having to take Rasho.

    The Knicks would likely swap picks with you in that deal as well.

    I didn't say that I wouldn't trade him..........just not for TJ Ford unless you are convinced Ford's neck is not a problem.
    Why does Walsh want JO? Why does he want JO's 44 mil salary vs Starbury's 22 mil salary? At least with Starbury, you don't have to worry about him constantly being injured and not playing. It's not like Walsh isn't all too familiar with JO's problems.

    Why would Walsh take on an extra 22 mil in salary and swap the 6th pick for the Pacers 11th pick? But if he has a hankering to do it, Bird had best jump on that deal, and smile all the way to the draft podium. Not to mention putting a smile on the Simons' faces by saving them 22 mil.

  22. #247
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    Default I agree with Kravitz

    LB - please do this deal. If anything else, it gives us fans a new ray of hope with 4 fresh faces. And to be honest, I have always liked TJ Ford (unfortunate injuries aside) and also Rasho for that matter. This would then give the Pacers a chance to trade Foster for maybe yet another first rounder (hes getting old and his back isnt going to hold up too much longer IMO).

    With the 11th pick we can still take DJ Augustin and we can have a Texas 2 step PG tandem. Groom Augustin with the big man we take at 17.

    We still keep our small nucleus together in DG, Shawne, and DunDun.

    And the hugest thing here, we can now send Tinsley down White River on a raft.

    I apologize if someone else has already echoed these sentiments. I didnt read all 10 pages.

  23. #248

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plax80 View Post
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    Ford isn't much of an upgrade over Tinsley.

    You aren't really saving any money since Ford and Rasho almost make as much between them as JO.
    Has Ford been a PR nightmare for Toronto? Was he when he was at Milwaukee? If not, he's a definate up grade over Tinsley. I know you are referring to Ford's playing, but you have to take in consideration Ford's intangibles too. Right now today, who wouldn't take Ford over Tinsley?

    As far as your 2nd statement goes, since when is 8 mil not much of a savings? Not only do you put 8 mil back in the Simons pocket, but Rasho's expiring gives Bird 8 mil more for FA's.

    Oh btw, Brad Miller was never a 2nd round pick. He was never drafted coming out of Purdue.

  24. #249
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Has Ford been a PR nightmare for Toronto? Was he when he was at Milwaukee? If not, he's a definate up grade over Tinsley. I know you are referring to Ford's playing, but you have to take in consideration Ford's intangibles too. Right now today, who wouldn't take Ford over Tinsley?

    As far as your 2nd statement goes, since when is 8 mil not much of a savings? Not only do you put 8 mil back in the Simons pocket, but Rasho's expiring gives Bird 8 mil more for FA's.

    Oh btw, Brad Miller was never a 2nd round pick. He was never drafted coming out of Purdue.
    He also wasn't on the 60-win team, but the following came to mind when I read it:

    (the exchange from about the 10 second mark to the 16 second mark)


  25. #250
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plax80 View Post
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    It just so happens that NBA TV is sshowing the 96 draft right now.......

    7. clips- Lo Wright
    8. Nets- Kerry Kittles
    9. Dal- Samaki walker
    10. Ind- Erick dampier
    11. GS- Todd Fuller
    12- Clev- Vitaly Potopenko


    13- LAL thru Char- kobe Bryant
    14- Sac- predrag stojakovic
    15- Phx- Steve Nash

    And Hubie and pitino are in shock that Sac took Peja instead of John Wallace.

    Find the superstar player in the draft and you win........fill a need with a guy who projects to be average at best and you LOOOSSSSEEEE.

    I agree 100%. Let me add, something else though. Of your list of six - 7 through 12, only one of them is a non-big guy. Most mistakes are made when a team takes a big guy, the old addage that you can't teach height has ruined more franchises and costs more GM's their job than anything else.

    On the trade that is being rumored. Mike Wells certainly didn't back off of the deal this morning, at least not yet. But if talks have broken off, I won't be heartbroken at all.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 06-24-2008 at 09:41 AM.

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