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Thread: Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

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  1. #1
    It's my opinion, relax! Vince Neil's Avatar
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    Default Jermaine O'Neal heading to Toronto for T.J. Ford, #17 pick. Pacers get Baston, give up pick #41

    Here is the big news as of Wednesday evening. Once you're done reading, you can catch up on the reactions starting from when this updated story broke on page 15:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-...=39769&page=15

    Here's the news:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

    By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports

    Yahoo! Sports

    NEW YORK After on-and-off again negotiations, the Indiana Pacers have agreed in principle to send six-time All-Star Jermaine O誰eal to the Toronto Raptors for point guard T.J. Ford and the 17th pick in Thursday痴 NBA draft, a league executive said Wednesday.

    After nearly completing the deal earlier in the week, Pacers and Raptors officials needed to exchange more medical information on O誰eal痴 left knee and Ford痴 neck before finding a comfort level with the trade. It is believed both sides now are comfortable making the deal, though the trade won稚 be complete until both O誰eal and Ford pass their physicals.

    Toronto also will send Rasho Nesterovic and another role player to match up with O誰eal痴 salary. O誰eal is owed $44 million over the next two seasons. He played just 42 games for Indiana a year ago with a left knee injury. O誰eal has expressed a desire to leave the Pacers for a contender.

    Ford, who has a history of neck injuries, became expendable when Toronto GM Bryan Colangelo decided that he wanted to make Jose Calderon the franchise痴 future at point guard.

    Ford was diagnosed with spinal stenosis, a condition that narrows the openings the spinal cord runs through. He missed the 2004-05 season with the Bucks following neck surgery, and missed 13 games with a neck injury last season after Atlanta痴 Al Horford leveled him on a breakaway layup. Ford has $25 million and two years left on his contract. Indiana had been searching for a point guard and Ford takes the job now.

    Calderon is a restricted free agent, and Colangelo has insisted that he値l match any offer for him. Clearly, the Raptors will belong to him now.

    The Pacers would now hold the 11th and 17th picks in the draft.

    ================================================== ======

    Pacers, Toronto talk about trading O'Neal
    By Mike Wells
    Posted: June 23, 2008- The Indiana Pacers and Jermaine O'Neal could be parting ways in the near future.

    The Pacers and Toronto Raptors have discussed a possible deal with O'Neal going north of the border with point guard T.J. Ford and center Rasho Nesterovic coming to Indiana, according to two people with knowledge of the situation. The deal may also include Toronto's first-round pick (No. 17) in Thursday's draft.


    The Raptors will have to throw in at least one other player to make the deal work financially.

    An issue that could hold up the deal is O'Neal's left knee. O'Neal, who has dealt with injuries the past four seasons, played just 42 games last season. Pacers officials, however, recently said O'Neal's knee is healthy. The six-time All-Star is spending the summer working out in Las Vegas.

    Call Star reporter Mike Wells at (317) 444-6053.

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...TS04/806230395
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 06-26-2008 at 11:04 AM.

  2. #2
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Please let it be true and let it actually happen.
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    Lifer 2minutes twowa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    This would be GREAT! I love TJ Ford's game. And Rasho is a legit 7 footer that would be a nice complement to Foster. I just don't know why Toronto would do this deal. If JO is healthy, he would be a great defensive complement to Bosh. (BIG IF) He wouldn't have to score 20+ points a game, he could focus on defense and rbs.

    The Pacers could end up with Ford, Rasho, player TBD, #17?

    And all they have to give is JO? Sounds great and too good to be true.
    Turn out the lights, this party's over!

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Please let it be true and let it actually happen.
    This was my initial gut reaction.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Originally Posted by 2minutes twowa
    The Toronto Star confirms rumors:
    http://www.thestar.com/sports

    It痴 all very tentative and quite up in the air but the Raptors have already investigated the possibility of a blockbuster trade that would net them a veteran yet expensive NBA centre.



    How can this be? I thought JO was a forward. At least, that's what he keeps telling everyone.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    Originally Posted by 2minutes twowa
    The Toronto Star confirms rumors:
    http://www.thestar.com/sports

    It痴 all very tentative and quite up in the air but the Raptors have already investigated the possibility of a blockbuster trade that would net them a veteran yet expensive NBA centre.



    How can this be? I thought JO was a forward. At least, that's what he keeps telling everyone.
    Too slow on the draw ABADays! I couldn't let that one slip by when I saw it
    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    JO is already phoning his agent to tell him to inform the Raptors that he will not be called a center no matter how they spell it in Canada.

    -Bball
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Too slow on the draw ABADays! I couldn't let that one slip by when I saw it
    It's the time difference I tell ya.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    I'm all for trading JO and I like getting the 17th pick. But I have no interest in Rasho and only have mild interest in Ford. You cannot win a championship or get close with Ford as your starting point guard (although he probably fits pretty well into O'Brien's offensive system). And if we draft Augustin, they we have 3 very small point guards. Diener, Ford and Augustin

    Rasho is in the last year of his contract. 8.4m
    Ford has three years left. 8.0 - 8.5 - 8.5.

    I'm not saying I wouldn't do this trade, but I'm not too excited about it. Probably the most we could get for JO though. I do question why the Raptors do this trade. I know they really, really, really want some help for Bosh inside (the Magic dominated them in the playoffs inside) so I guess that is what they are looking for.

    Interesting that Wells just updated this (it wasn't in the print addition) so he must think it is something that needs to be up on the website fast. That means to me it carries a little more weight
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 06-23-2008 at 10:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I'm all for trading JO and I like getting the 17th pick. But I have no interest in Rasho and only have mild interest in Ford. You cannot win a championship or get close with Ford as your starting point guard. And if we draft Augustin, they we have 3 very small point guards. Diener, Ford and Augustin

    Rasho is in the last year of his contract. 8.4m
    Ford has three years left. 8.0 - 8.5 - 8.5.

    I'm not saying I wouldn't do this trade, but I'm not too excited about it. Probably the most we could get for JO though. I do question why the Raptors do this trade. I know they really, really, really want some help for Bosh inside (the Magic dominated them in the playoffs inside) so I guess that is what they are looking for.

    Interesting that Wells just updated this (it wasn't in the print addition) so he must think it is something that needs to be up on the website fast. That means to me it carries a little more weight
    The Celtics won a title with Rondo at point, so I wouldn't say never. Ford is solid.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 06-23-2008 at 10:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    The Celtics won a title with Rondo at point, so I wouldn't say never. Ford is solid.
    That is a good point. But we don't have any players as good as any of the Celtics big three. (I would rather have Rondo over Ford anyways) Ford is a defensive liability, although he isn't terrible defensively (better than Deener and Tinsley) I guess, he can push the ball, for sure and he can create for teammates, can get into the lane.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    The Celtics won a title with Rondo at point, so I wouldn't say never. Ford is solid.
    I like Ford's talent but that degenerative spine condition he has makes it seem that he won't last more than five more injury riddled seasons in the league. It's really unfortunate for TJ, too, he's a good player, but I don't want another injury prone guy on the team.

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    The Celtics won a title with Rondo at point, so I wouldn't say never. Ford is solid.
    I was gonna say the same thing but substitute Avery Johnson & the Spurs.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I'm all for trading JO and I like getting the 17th pick. But I have no interest in Rasho and only have mild interest in Ford. You cannot win a championship or get close with Ford as your starting point guard (although he probably fits pretty well into O'Brien's offensive system). And if we draft Augustin, they we have 3 very small point guards. Diener, Ford and Augustin

    Rasho is in the last year of his contract. 8.4m
    Ford has three years left. 8.0 - 8.5 - 8.5.

    I'm not saying I wouldn't do this trade, but I'm not too excited about it. Probably the most we could get for JO though. I do question why the Raptors do this trade. I know they really, really, really want some help for Bosh inside (the Magic dominated them in the playoffs inside) so I guess that is what they are looking for.

    Interesting that Wells just updated this (it wasn't in the print addition) so he must think it is something that needs to be up on the website fast. That means to me it carries a little more weight
    1. This should be one more reason NOT to draft Augustin, because as you say it would mean having three small, but OTOH also very very fast (probably the fastest in the league) PG's, who could get physically abused during the playoffs. I don't see that happenning, but stranger things have occured. Likelier seems we draft two bigs (unless Gordon is around our pick) or shop a collection of first and second round picks to move up or down, loads of sudden flexibility there.

    2. I don't see our team as a championship contender in the next three years unless we draft a superstar this year or next year (and then still have a hard time believing it), so I'm not too worried about having Ford as a PG in the meantime.

    3. I think Toronto does it because of the inside prescence JO brings and if he doesn't work out too well he will come of there salarybalance fairly quickly or hope on resigning him for peanuts if it does work. They solve their problem of finding suitors for both Rasho and Ford.

    4. I hope the added guy won't be Jason Kapono (though JOB probably loves him and his shooting). Praying that that won't work salary wise...

    Regards,

    Mourning
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 06-23-2008 at 10:54 AM.
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  14. #14
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    So, theoretically, it's:

    TJ Ford (3yrs 24.8mm)
    Rasho Nesterovic (1 yr, 8.4mm)
    #17 (Hopefully)

    for

    JO (2yrs, 44.4mm)

    The Raps would have to add about $0.5mm in salaries to make the deal work, and the only guy they have like that is Jamario Moon, but I'm unsure as to how they'd feel about him as a throw in. They could also throw in the $1.9mm contract of Maceo Baston.

    Another option is to agree to the deal, but consummate it after the draft. That way, the contract of the #17 pick (probably about $1.5mm, first year) could be used to match the salaries.

    I know Ford is a risk, but I like this deal if the #17 is included. It gives us relatively young point guard (albeit with injury issues), but he has played over 70 games in the two years prior to this.

    Nesterovic is a nice size expiring, plus a serviceable big man that can play a little defense.

    A second 1st round draft pick in the area where there are a lot of players that we like.

    It also could get us under the luxury tax next year and clear about $12-13 million in salaries for the 2009-2010 season.

    I like this deal...a lot...if the 1st rounder is there.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    I know they probably won't part with Bargz, just thought I'd make everyone aware that his salary could work into the deal. I wouldn't mind adding to get him, depending on who it is. Ike or Shawne maybe?

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Another option is to agree to the deal, but consummate it after the draft. That way, the contract of the #17 pick (probably about $1.5mm, first year) could be used to match the salaries.
    I don't think that's legal. You can't trade someone you just signed to a contract like that IIRC.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I don't think that's legal. You can't trade someone you just signed to a contract like that IIRC.
    You have to wait 30 days for rookie contracts. So, say he's signed to the rookie scale contract on 7/1, then he could be dealt on 7/31.

    It's actually how the Bender deal went down, IIRC.

  18. #18
    Lifer 2minutes twowa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    So, theoretically, it's:

    TJ Ford (3yrs 24.8mm)
    Rasho Nesterovic (1 yr, 8.4mm)
    #17 (Hopefully)

    for

    JO (2yrs, 44.4mm)

    The Raps would have to add about $0.5mm in salaries to make the deal work, and the only guy they have like that is Jamario Moon, but I'm unsure as to how they'd feel about him as a throw in. They could also throw in the $1.9mm contract of Maceo Baston.

    Another option is to agree to the deal, but consummate it after the draft. That way, the contract of the #17 pick (probably about $1.5mm, first year) could be used to match the salaries.

    I know Ford is a risk, but I like this deal if the #17 is included. It gives us relatively young point guard (albeit with injury issues), but he has played over 70 games in the two years prior to this.

    Nesterovic is a nice size expiring, plus a serviceable big man that can play a little defense.

    A second 1st round draft pick in the area where there are a lot of players that we like.

    It also could get us under the luxury tax next year and clear about $12-13 million in salaries for the 2009-2010 season.

    I like this deal...a lot...if the 1st rounder is there.
    I agree. Without the #17 it would be a little hard to swallow. But like a previous poster pointed out, #11 and #17 could end up being Speights/Chalmers or any other combo of solid prospects.
    Turn out the lights, this party's over!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Could we have Christmas in June. To get rid of JO I would do almost anything

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Were this still the DW/Bunny era I'd say this was the formal "hint" to expect the announcement at any time. But in the new era, I'm not so certain...but I'm guessing it is soon to happen officially.
    If you get to thinkin you池e a person of some influence, try orderin somebody else痴 dog around..

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by GenlHooker View Post
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    Could we have Christmas in June. To get rid of JO I would do almost anything
    Naw,

    Christmas would be if Tinsley were included too.

    This would just be an early 4th of July celebration. I know I'd launch a bottle rocket or too, even though Rasho is near-worthless and TJ is an injury concern.

    JO and David H for TJ, Rasho, #17, and Anthony Parker or Kris Humphries works for me.

    Real GM lists TJ as a full base-year-comp guy, so I couldn't get any trades to work ...

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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    foster, daniels, rasho all expiring, right?

    swing a trade with NY to send Tinsley away and get the expiring Starbury?

  23. #23
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    Naw,

    Christmas would be if Tinsley were included too.

    This would just be an early 4th of July celebration. I know I'd launch a bottle rocket or too, even though Rasho is near-worthless and TJ is an injury concern.

    JO and David H for TJ, Rasho, #17, and Anthony Parker or Kris Humphries works for me.

    Real GM lists TJ as a full base-year-comp guy, so I couldn't get any trades to work ...
    TJ's BYC would expire on June 30th...

    The Pacers could do the deal with Parker:

    Successful Trade Scenario
    Congratulations on a successful trade.
    Due to Indiana and Toronto being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and Toronto had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

    Indiana Trade Breakdown
    Change in Team Outlook: +18.8 ppg, +4.2 rpg, and +7.2 apg.
    Incoming Players
    T.J. Ford
    5-11 PG from Texas
    12.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 6.1 apg in 23.5 minutes
    Rasho Nesterovic
    7-0 C from Slovenia (Foreign)
    7.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 20.9 minutes
    Anthony Parker
    6-6 SG / SF from Bradley
    12.5 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.2 apg in 32.1 minutes
    1st Round 2008 (#17)

    Outgoing Players
    Jermaine O'Neal
    6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
    13.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 2.2 apg in 28.7 minutes

    Or, the as I mentioned earlier, the deal could be agreed to today, but consummated in August, using only Ford, Nesterovic, and the signed #17 draft pick (30 days after his contract signing). That would be the most advantageous to the Pacers from a cap perspective, but would require (a not unprecedented) "wink-and-a-nod" deal.

    Otherwise, TJ's $8,275 would only count as $4,138 for Toronto's outgoing salary for cap purposes in any pre 6/30 deal. (It would still be $8.3 for us.)

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    TJ's BYC would expire on June 30th...

    The Pacers could do the deal with Parker:

    Successful Trade Scenario
    Congratulations on a successful trade.
    Due to Indiana and Toronto being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and Toronto had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

    Indiana Trade Breakdown
    Change in Team Outlook: +18.8 ppg, +4.2 rpg, and +7.2 apg.
    Incoming Players
    T.J. Ford
    5-11 PG from Texas
    12.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 6.1 apg in 23.5 minutes
    Rasho Nesterovic
    7-0 C from Slovenia (Foreign)
    7.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 20.9 minutes
    Anthony Parker
    6-6 SG / SF from Bradley
    12.5 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.2 apg in 32.1 minutes
    1st Round 2008 (#17)

    Outgoing Players
    Jermaine O'Neal
    6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
    13.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 2.2 apg in 28.7 minutes

    Or, the as I mentioned earlier, the deal could be agreed to today, but consummated in August, using only Ford, Nesterovic, and the signed #17 draft pick (30 days after his contract signing). That would be the most advantageous to the Pacers from a cap perspective, but would require (a not unprecedented) "wink-and-a-nod" deal.

    Otherwise, TJ's $8,275 would only count as $4,138 for Toronto's outgoing salary for cap purposes in any pre 6/30 deal. (It would still be $8.3 for us.)
    Parker's their starting 2 guard, they're not going to add him to the mix, more like Baston.

  25. #25
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wells: JO to Toronto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Parker's their starting 2 guard, they're not going to add him to the mix, more like Baston.
    Rumble out of Toronto is that he (Parker) may be looking to head back overseas...

    Olympiacos is interested in Raptors guard Anthony Parker. "Its still too early to say anything. I have Olympiacos' offer in my mind, but I still belong to the Raptors so its not easy," Parker says.
    I just have the quote, and I'm trying to dig up the link. He's guaranteed, so it's not like he can just bolt the Raps, but at the same time, they may not think he's a long-term solution.

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