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Thread: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    It really is hard to say who they are going to pick but Augustin and Koufos do not help
    out defensively. The player they pick has to help at least some on defense along with the offense.
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    I really like Koufos, and disagree with the idea that he is "soft." I think the kid has the tools to be solid in the low post, with the ability to stretch the defense to the 3 point line. He has a lot of tools I like, as well as a lot he needs to improve on. Pretty much every 19 year old center has a lot of room for improvement.

    With that said, I do not think he is the right fit for the Pacers as long as JOB is here. In our current situation, I think he may well turn into another Troy Murphy, and one is enough.

  3. #78

    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    A couple of thoughts, after hearing what Larry said and I believe him on this I don't think Anthony Randolph is even on the list. He wants someone to help them now which makes sense because later may never come for Bird. He would take him at 41, and I know I know he'll be way gone before then, but he has Bender written all over him.

    If the Pacers get a second 1st round pick. Courtney Lee, Mike Wells thought there was a decent chance that they COULD pick up a second 1st rounder and he thought Hibbert or Lee would be the guy, with that pick.

    Koufos, Why does everyone dislike him so much, he has the numbers as far as height, skill set, etc. He may be soft, but he's freaking 19 at 7'1" with all of the tools. I know I've seen him too and he looks well like a 14 man on an NBA roster or a Euro player, but he really has all the measureables and he seems like a bright well adjusted kid who can hit a jumper. Can't you teach some of the other things needed when you have the ability? I say this and I'm always the first one to jump on here and run a big stiff into the ground. We'll see, but I get a different vibe about Koufas, never a star, of course, but a nice piece I'm feeling. Maybe I'm just wistful for Rik Smits, I never imagined I'd say that one.

    This was the other big thing from Wells, which I really am not a fan of, but he does get access to the team. He said that if Westbrook is gone, (which he evidently has a top 10 guarantee) and Augustine is gone, he doesn't think they will go big he thought the pick was BRANDON RUSH.

    Now, again, I get the play now deal, but come on.

    I don't dislike Rush, but is he really a 2???? Wells called him a 2/3 and said it was a weakness last year.

    I absolutely agree, but it wasn't one of the PRIMARY weaknesses. I'd rather take Arthur or Speights.

    Hell you don't even have to move JO, Arthur/Speights will get burn anyway.

    I like Arthur, he's ready to play, he's compared to Antwain Jamison, he already has applicable skills. And he still has a big upside.

    The other thing that Wells said was the last time he saw Mal Mal was April 16th the last day of the season and he looked like he had been hanging out with him at BW3s a little too much.

    Tinsley done, hopefully they won't mess that up.

    Also, a faller is Brook Lopez, which I called but we all know he's a lead ballon now and you still have to take him if he's there at 11.

    Not Eric Gordon, he's been quiet but you don't pass on a potential 20+ point a night scorer in the NBA.

    Anthony Randolph could fall alllllll the way to the late 20's, imho. He's a 5 year project and you only get the guys for sure for 4 or 5 years to start anyway. Plus he has Shawne Williams like maturity. Maybe he goes to the San Antonio or Boston, wouldn't that be a hoot. I really really wouldn't be surprised if he falls OUT of the first round, which is incredible because he was projected as high as 5 earlier this month.

    Bill Walker, who's going to take a chance on a guy with paper knees?? I feel bad for him, but put yourself in the GM seat, would you take him with a guaranteed 1st round contract, not in a million years.

    Also, while I'm playing prognosticator, who is the last guy in the green room Thursday, I say Darrell Arthur, unless Anthony Randolph is there. I'm just not sure Randolph is coming to the draft or not.

    Very lastly, I think you're drafting at 11 for JOs replacement, NOT Tinsley. I think you trade JO for Tinsley's replacement.

    Why?

    You aren't going to trade JO for another younger potentially better PF. Other teams just won't do that. Or the most extreme case, the Pacers keep JO and he drops off in two years, don't you need 2 years to have a young PF or Center to develop to where they are viable.

    If you draft Augustine, you have put another band aid on the next two years, maybe. And then exactly two years from now we are talking about how you really need a PF/C to get this team to the Playoffs.

    If you draft a PF/C you are sitting here maybe saying the same thing or maybe you're glad that they have an up and comer at the position while they've picked up a semi veteran PG or even drafted one next year.

    The point is this, I think if you take a PG at 11, its short sighted and you aren't building something that has staying power.

    Now the exception is if you think the Bigs at 11 are stiffs and Augustine is your starting PG for the next 10 years, then I'm on board.

    I just don't want to draft Augustine just cuz Obie and Bird may only be here 2 more years and they are desperate for a Point Guard cuz Tinsley has F'd them over. It's the wrong reasons to do it.
    Very good points, but you draft based on need and value. If the pick came down to Augustine and Speights, you have to take Augustine because he is the highest rated out of the two. If it came down to B. Lopez and Augustine, then you would have to take Lopez because he is the highest rated out of the two. Now, some GM's are headstrong on a player and pick them no matter what, like Bird in 2006. Also, I agree on Koufos, he's not worth a lottery pick, but he could be a solid late round pick. I have not read a terrible review on him yet, unlike Jordan and McGee.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by 2minutes twowa View Post
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    Don't know if this qualifies as a "Danny Granger" type fall, but I just have a feeling that Love is going to slip out of the top ten.
    No way! He could go as high as 3rd to Minny.

    Randolph is the one that's going to fall. Both his workouts and his physc tests aren't very good.

    Unless something happens to get him interested no telling where he might fall!

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    No way! He could go as high as 3rd to Minny.

    Randolph is the one that's going to fall. Both his workouts and his physc tests aren't very good.

    Unless something happens to get him interested no telling where he might fall!
    Like the rumors of Robin Lopez moving into the top 10. Though it probably won't affect Kevin Love, it would definitely drop somebody worth drafting. One can only hope.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Koufos shows up on my decoder and I don't like it.
    Not showing up on mine. Larry said he's wanting someone that can step in and contribute right away. Does anyone think Koufos (hypothetically) is able to do that? From all accounts, even the good ones, he's a couple years away.

    I'll be the first to say that Larry's looking at a guard. I think he's going for Augustin.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    I think the kid has the tools to be solid in the low post, with the ability to stretch the defense to the 3 point line.
    Well call me old-fashioned, but I really don't want my Center to spread out the floor all the way up to 3PT range. I want my Center close to the board as much as possible. I want him to rebound, block shots, take high percentage shortrange shots and if possible to hit a few midrange shots, though that is not prerequisite to me, but more like a nice added bonus.

    He's only 19, so yes, he will improve and possibly a lot, but I just keep hearing he's not a banger and not that good of a rebounder, is soft. All things I basically don't want to hear when I talk about Centers (unless your name is Rik Smits ).

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by eldubious View Post
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    Very good points, but you draft based on need and value. If the pick came down to Augustine and Speights, you have to take Augustine because he is the highest rated out of the two.
    Not if you've already worked out a trade of JO for a PG like Hinrich.

  9. #84
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    Well call me old-fashioned, but I really don't want my Center to spread out the floor all the way up to 3PT range. I want my Center close to the board as much as possible. I want him to rebound, block shots, take high percentage shortrange shots and if possible to hit a few midrange shots, though that is not prerequisite to me, but more like a nice added bonus.
    Amen! The ability to hit a 3 is soooooo far down my list of desirable talents for a center...well...it's so far down there it's not even on it.

    If my center has to take 3 point shots, then my team is flawed beyond belief
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    Amen! The ability to hit a 3 is soooooo far down my list of desirable talents for a center...well...it's so far down there it's not even on it.

    If my center has to take 3 point shots, then my team is flawed beyond belief
    Are the Utah Jazz flawed beyond belief?

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by iPACER View Post
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    Not if you've already worked out a trade of JO for a PG like Hinrich.

    Bird has seemed like he already has a second 1st rounder. By the way he spoke about it this last week and by the guys they have brought in. 9 of the 31 listed are probably going to go late first round. He really only brought in about 4 guys that you would even have to take at 11 and NONE of the prospects who may go earlier than 11.

    I just really really wonder if he has a very firm trade in place.

    On a semi related note, it really bothers me he's SURE the guy they want will be there, that doesn't even make sense. It's like saying, hey we are going to reach for someone at 11 that absolutely no one would take him higher. Drives me crazy. Maybe he means we 11 guys who we really really like and we'll get one of them at 11, but that IS NOT what he said.

  12. #87
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Are the Utah Jazz flawed beyond belief?
    I think the key word in what Doug is saying is HAS, as in HAS to take a three.

    Not "can" as in, Can step back and hit the three.

    If that is what Doug is meaning then I am with him 100%. I don't believe Utah has to have Okur take the three. I believe they use him to take a three because he can.

    There is a differance IMO.

  13. #88
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Bird has seemed like he already has a second 1st rounder. By the way he spoke about it this last week and by the guys they have brought in. 9 of the 31 listed are probably going to go late first round. He really only brought in about 4 guys that you would even have to take at 11 and NONE of the prospects who may go earlier than 11.

    I just really really wonder if he has a very firm trade in place.

    On a semi related note, it really bothers me he's SURE the guy they want will be there, that doesn't even make sense. It's like saying, hey we are going to reach for someone at 11 that absolutely no one would take him higher. Drives me crazy. Maybe he means we 11 guys who we really really like and we'll get one of them at 11, but that IS NOT what he said.

    Actually what he said was nothing more than a positive pr spin. As in no matter who we select at 11 it is exactly who we were looking at all along and got exactly who we wanted.

    At least that is the way it will be spun after the draft.

    Donnie used to just outright lie about who he wanted to draft, Larry doesn't even bother. He just puts out the old "we are going to get who we want" and then tell noone who that is so that when we pick whoever it is is THE person we wanted.

    God I hate P.R. spin.

    I understand why they do it, I just hate it myself.

  14. #89

    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    As in no matter who we select at 11 it is exactly who we were looking at all along and got exactly who we wanted. At least that is the way it will be spun after the draft.
    Yeah right, like all the sheep believe it, and blindly follow that line of bull.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Are the Utah Jazz flawed beyond belief?
    If they want an Okur clone, the Pacers have one named Murphy. Murphy, Quis, and Williams for AK47 and Almond.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Actually what he said was nothing more than a positive pr spin. As in no matter who we select at 11 it is exactly who we were looking at all along and got exactly who we wanted.

    At least that is the way it will be spun after the draft.

    Donnie used to just outright lie about who he wanted to draft, Larry doesn't even bother. He just puts out the old "we are going to get who we want" and then tell noone who that is so that when we pick whoever it is is THE person we wanted.

    God I hate P.R. spin.

    I understand why they do it, I just hate it myself.

    That makes sense, well, what you said does, but Bird acting like they targeted one guy all along and he was smarter than the room to know that one guy would be their pick is ridiculous spin.

    I do believe, like Bird eluded to, that they will pick someone who can help them right away, in this draft that pretty much narrows it down where the Pacers are picking at 11. Its likely not Anthony Randolph or Deandre Jordan. It's more like Augustine or B Rush are two that come to mind as ready to play next year. Really other than that, at 11, it is a bunch of kids or big guys who are going to take time.

    Like I said earlier, I think you need to draft for JOs replacement at 11, whether there is a trade in place Thursday or JO just leaves in 2 years, unless there is just a far superior talent there at 11 for you, at another position.

  17. #92

    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Hicks-

    Good point. Utah is not flawed in that way. While I want no part
    of Koufos whatsoever, if we already had Boozer at PF and D-Will
    at PG, I'd be more than willing to reconsider.

    But alas, we don't.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Bird has seemed like he already has a second 1st rounder. By the way he spoke about it this last week and by the guys they have brought in. 9 of the 31 listed are probably going to go late first round. He really only brought in about 4 guys that you would even have to take at 11 and NONE of the prospects who may go earlier than 11.

    I just really really wonder if he has a very firm trade in place.
    ...or is just a bad judge of talent?
    ...or is trading down from #11?

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Actually what he said was nothing more than a positive pr spin. As in no matter who we select at 11 it is exactly who we were looking at all along and got exactly who we wanted.

    At least that is the way it will be spun after the draft.

    Donnie used to just outright lie about who he wanted to draft, Larry doesn't even bother. He just puts out the old "we are going to get who we want" and then tell noone who that is so that when we pick whoever it is is THE person we wanted.

    God I hate P.R. spin.

    I understand why they do it, I just hate it myself.
    Yep. You never hear a GM say "Well, the guy we wanted was long gone, so we got stuck with this turd."

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Not showing up on mine. Larry said he's wanting someone that can step in and contribute right away. Does anyone think Koufos (hypothetically) is able to do that? From all accounts, even the good ones, he's a couple years away.

    I'll be the first to say that Larry's looking at a guard. I think he's going for Augustin.
    Yeah, but he can't contribute ever so that doesn't work either.


    Sheesh, there is no way I should be so snarky on DJ. He might make it but I think he's a big risk, a forced pick that early (same with Rush).
    I don't dislike Rush, but is he really a 2????
    What? What else would he be. He's got a great outside shot, he's quick enough to be put on Curry during the tourney and fair alright, and he basically played the perimeter all the time for KS. It just happened that KS ran a lot of 3 guard sets, often with 2 PGs which let Chalmers roam more for his own shot and kept a ton of speed on the court.

    Rush is more classic NBA SG than Westbrook is IMO. My issue is just that I don't think he's top 11 skilled as a SG.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I think the key word in what Doug is saying is HAS, as in HAS to take a three.

    Not "can" as in, Can step back and hit the three.

    If that is what Doug is meaning then I am with him 100%. I don't believe Utah has to have Okur take the three. I believe they use him to take a three because he can.

    There is a differance IMO.
    I agree that this is what Doug was going for. We all would love a guy with Shaq's size, Reggie's 3, and Nash's PG ability. What we balk at is compensating for a lack of a core positional talent with a "gimmick" aspect like a big with a 3.

    A guy like Okur isn't quite true inside muscle but he's not full on soft either. He passes extremely well, moves in the PnR or 3 man game very well and just makes teams pay if they leave him. But if they worry about his 3 instead then he burn them by going or getting it back inside.

  22. #97
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    We all would love a guy with Shaq's size, Reggie's 3, and Nash's PG ability.
    Man, that was the greatest Shaq commercial ever. Remember it? Might have been Taco Bell or something. It was 5 Shaqs vs. 5 Shaqs, and everything one guy did the opposing guy did. Crazy passes, trick shots, threes, dunks, etc.

    Commercial ends with the camera panning out and the announcer says "Looks like we're going to have to settle this with free throws!"

    Anybody remember that?
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    On a semi related note, it really bothers me he's SURE the guy they want will be there, that doesn't even make sense. It's like saying, hey we are going to reach for someone at 11 that absolutely no one would take him higher. Drives me crazy. Maybe he means we 11 guys who we really really like and we'll get one of them at 11, but that IS NOT what he said.
    Yeah, good call. That worries me as well... I thought the exact same thing.

    I could have written that post, if I could write as well as you.
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Actually what he said was nothing more than a positive pr spin. As in no matter who we select at 11 it is exactly who we were looking at all along and got exactly who we wanted.

    At least that is the way it will be spun after the draft.
    I think most of you guys are making way to much out of a team saying they got who they wanted. It's spun that way because most of them do get who they want.

    You have to take what they are saying in the context of where they are picking. Most teams can figure out who other teams are going to pick, thus they know who is going to be there when they pick, so in that respect they do get who they wanted with that pick.

    That doesn't mean that was who they coveted. Most teams covet Rose or Beasley, but they can't get them, but they usually do get who they singled out with their pick.

    For example; If you are having dinner and the fried chicken platter is going around the table, but your favorites, the drumsticks, are all gone, whichever piece you decide on is still your choice. So you can rightfully say you got the piece you wanted. It's just context.

    I also don't think Bird has another pick in hand. A lot of teams are thinking this is a great draft, probably because it has so many 19 year olds with potential in it.

    Seeing all that potential has a lot of teams wanting extra picks and we don't look like a team with a lot of assets, so we will probably get outbid.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 06-22-2008 at 06:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Yeah, good call. That worries me as well... I thought the exact same thing.

    I could have written that post, if I could write as well as you.

    Thanks Anthem. Especially when you were referencing a post where I said.."Maybe he means we 11 guys who we really really like and we'll get one of them at 11". That is some good az writing!

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