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Thread: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    what if larry gets speights AND koufos?

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    I would be pretty happy if we drafted Arthur. The fact that Larry actually mentioned him is disappointing.

    Unless, he knows that people will know he said him as a smokescreen, and hence don't intend to draft him. But then, they would know that he knows that they will think it's a smokescreen. I would like to think he would know that they know that he knows they know, but his head would have exploded before then.

    What, no obligitory Princess Bride derail at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by iPACER View Post
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    what if larry gets speights AND koufos?
    I suggest penicillin.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 06-20-2008 at 11:31 AM.

  3. #53

    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Courtney Lee has been looking good. The video I've seen on him he has been impressive. He'd definitely be there at 11...or we could trade in to get him. What's the consensus on PD about Lee?

  4. #54

    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    If Bird reaches for Koufos at #11, he might as well just turn in
    his resignation asap and save the franchise the 2 yrs left on his
    deal. As for Aurthur, if it's him, then I hope Diogu's exit is already
    in the works as it doesn't make much sense to carry both.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I agree it seems right now that there isn't much of a difference. But 4 years from now there will be a huge difference between players - You know what happens, 4 years from now we all look at lists of who was available at pick 11 and say, why didn't we draft so and so, he is a much better player even though he was drafted 20th. Pacers need maybe two or three straight drafts where that doesn't happen. (you know the why did we take George McCloud when Tim hardaway was available).
    Understood, but I don't think we're in quite the same situation. We have so many positions where we can use immediate help but only 1 (well, call it 1-1/2) where we have a logjam. That makes it much easier to pick one of a few top remaining players rather than having to pick for a specific position.

    Besides, if someone else manages to get lucky with a lower draft pick, we'll still be second guessing whatever Larry does.

    To summarize, I think we've had our fill of taking gambles for players who might develop. I think for this year at least we need someone who can produce right away. After all, if someone picked this year looks like they are jelling into a future prospect, we have a few expiring contracts at the end of next season we could use to make a play for a promising but not yet broken through sophomore.
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Obviously, if a gift like a Granger comes along, you jump at that. However, I don't think it'll happen.
    Just curious, Who do you think could/will be the Granger-slip of this years draft? Who would you qualify in that catagory?
    (Gordan, Lopez,...?)
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Don't know if this qualifies as a "Danny Granger" type fall, but I just have a feeling that Love is going to slip out of the top ten.
    Turn out the lights, this party's over!

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by 2minutes twowa View Post
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    Don't know if this qualifies as a "Danny Granger" type fall, but I just have a feeling that Love is going to slip out of the top ten.
    Top 10, or Top 11?
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by ESutt7 View Post
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    Courtney Lee has been looking good. The video I've seen on him he has been impressive. He'd definitely be there at 11...or we could trade in to get him. What's the consensus on PD about Lee?
    I don't know, but I'm quoting this in hopes someone else sees it who does know and can give you an answer.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by 2minutes twowa View Post
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    Don't know if this qualifies as a "Danny Granger" type fall, but I just have a feeling that Love is going to slip out of the top ten.
    I don't.

    But I'd be thrilled with Love at #11. Or Gordon, or Lopez.
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by ESutt7 View Post
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    Courtney Lee has been looking good. The video I've seen on him he has been impressive. He'd definitely be there at 11...or we could trade in to get him. What's the consensus on PD about Lee?
    ummm you don't seriously think we should pick him in the lottery do you? let alone the first round...the guy is a 2nd rounder

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    Unless, he knows that people will know he said him as a smokescreen, and hence don't intend to draft him. But then, they would know that he knows that they will think it's a smokescreen. I would like to think he would know that they know that he knows they know
    Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    I like Lee quite a bit, but 11 is too high, especially considering I don't think he's the best fit for us.
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by ESutt7 View Post
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    Courtney Lee has been looking good. The video I've seen on him he has been impressive. He'd definitely be there at 11...or we could trade in to get him. What's the consensus on PD about Lee?
    i like lee but taking him at 11 (like kegboy says) is a terrible idea. he isn't worth that. lee most likely won't be a star but could be a starter/6th man type like a raja bell or derrick mckey. he's a nice defender and has a nice shot. probably a solid role player for his NBA career. but he isn't #11 good. you take him in the 20s or later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
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    ummm you don't seriously think we should pick him in the lottery do you? let alone the first round...the guy is a 2nd rounder
    lee is a late first rounder. definitely not lotto but he'd be worth a shot in the 20s. why so opposed?
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  15. #65

    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Right right, I meant more to get that late pick and get him (Lee). Maybe get a big at 11, and trade for a PG if they're worried about DJ's size.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I don't know, but I'm quoting this in hopes someone else sees it who does know and can give you an answer.
    Well I only saw him a couple times but he struck me as a poor man's Westbrook/Rush, and really not that far off either of them. He gave Westbrook fits in the NCAA tourney (both shot poorly) and was defending him most of the time. He was nice chasing after a player or helping someone else, so even if a guy gets a step he keeps himself in the play. In that way he had a slight Weaver-ness to his game.

    On offense he's smooth and has a couple of solid moves that I think could apply at the next level. I thought his reached looked short but IIRC he measured okay in Orlando so what do I know.

    I'd place him around 28-35 but he's been climbing for whatever reasons, much like Rush (I'd call him an 18-23 guy, Weaver 25-30).

    I like Lee and if you get back in and find Rush gone then I'd consider him, though I'd take Chalmers first and perhaps Weaver as well for a more defense, less offense trade-off. I'd been hoping to see a 2nd round trade up to get Lee, but the 1st round buzz makes this look unlikely.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 06-20-2008 at 04:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by ESutt7 View Post
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    Right right, I meant more to get that late pick and get him (Lee). Maybe get a big at 11, and trade for a PG if they're worried about DJ's size.
    if we could do that (speights or arthur at 11, courtney lee late first and trade for a defensive-minded pg) that'd be fantastic

    i'm just trying to think of a scenario where that works. the only one is seattle with the #24 pick and earl watson. as LG33's sig suggests we could have him maybe for quis' exp contract. i dunno. any other thoughts?
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    I'd throw Ike into that deal too (if we're getting the earlier pick), but I've never been too high on Ike so maybe that's just me.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I'd throw Ike into that deal too (if we're getting the earlier pick), but I've never been too high on Ike so maybe that's just me.
    i don't think that works financially -- we'd have to take someone else back. not sure who.
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Damn.

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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Damn.
    my REAL hope is that since we're saving them $6mil that they'll just give us the late first.


    EDIT: the only way i could see them doing that is by including adrian griffin with watson, which i might do, along with the first. but shamsports lists griffin's contract as unguarenteed next year so that doesn't make a ton of sense for them to exercise it just to trade him when they could just let him go.
    Last edited by avoidingtheclowns; 06-20-2008 at 05:54 PM.
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    A couple of thoughts, after hearing what Larry said and I believe him on this I don't think Anthony Randolph is even on the list. He wants someone to help them now which makes sense because later may never come for Bird. He would take him at 41, and I know I know he'll be way gone before then, but he has Bender written all over him.

    If the Pacers get a second 1st round pick. Courtney Lee, Mike Wells thought there was a decent chance that they COULD pick up a second 1st rounder and he thought Hibbert or Lee would be the guy, with that pick.

    Koufos, Why does everyone dislike him so much, he has the numbers as far as height, skill set, etc. He may be soft, but he's freaking 19 at 7'1" with all of the tools. I know I've seen him too and he looks well like a 14 man on an NBA roster or a Euro player, but he really has all the measureables and he seems like a bright well adjusted kid who can hit a jumper. Can't you teach some of the other things needed when you have the ability? I say this and I'm always the first one to jump on here and run a big stiff into the ground. We'll see, but I get a different vibe about Koufas, never a star, of course, but a nice piece I'm feeling. Maybe I'm just wistful for Rik Smits, I never imagined I'd say that one.

    This was the other big thing from Wells, which I really am not a fan of, but he does get access to the team. He said that if Westbrook is gone, (which he evidently has a top 10 guarantee) and Augustine is gone, he doesn't think they will go big he thought the pick was BRANDON RUSH.

    Now, again, I get the play now deal, but come on.

    I don't dislike Rush, but is he really a 2???? Wells called him a 2/3 and said it was a weakness last year.

    I absolutely agree, but it wasn't one of the PRIMARY weaknesses. I'd rather take Arthur or Speights.

    Hell you don't even have to move JO, Arthur/Speights will get burn anyway.

    I like Arthur, he's ready to play, he's compared to Antwain Jamison, he already has applicable skills. And he still has a big upside.

    The other thing that Wells said was the last time he saw Mal Mal was April 16th the last day of the season and he looked like he had been hanging out with him at BW3s a little too much.

    Tinsley done, hopefully they won't mess that up.

    Also, a faller is Brook Lopez, which I called but we all know he's a lead ballon now and you still have to take him if he's there at 11.

    Not Eric Gordon, he's been quiet but you don't pass on a potential 20+ point a night scorer in the NBA.

    Anthony Randolph could fall alllllll the way to the late 20's, imho. He's a 5 year project and you only get the guys for sure for 4 or 5 years to start anyway. Plus he has Shawne Williams like maturity. Maybe he goes to the San Antonio or Boston, wouldn't that be a hoot. I really really wouldn't be surprised if he falls OUT of the first round, which is incredible because he was projected as high as 5 earlier this month.

    Bill Walker, who's going to take a chance on a guy with paper knees?? I feel bad for him, but put yourself in the GM seat, would you take him with a guaranteed 1st round contract, not in a million years.

    Also, while I'm playing prognosticator, who is the last guy in the green room Thursday, I say Darrell Arthur, unless Anthony Randolph is there. I'm just not sure Randolph is coming to the draft or not.

    Very lastly, I think you're drafting at 11 for JOs replacement, NOT Tinsley. I think you trade JO for Tinsley's replacement.

    Why?

    You aren't going to trade JO for another younger potentially better PF. Other teams just won't do that. Or the most extreme case, the Pacers keep JO and he drops off in two years, don't you need 2 years to have a young PF or Center to develop to where they are viable.

    If you draft Augustine, you have put another band aid on the next two years, maybe. And then exactly two years from now we are talking about how you really need a PF/C to get this team to the Playoffs.

    If you draft a PF/C you are sitting here maybe saying the same thing or maybe you're glad that they have an up and comer at the position while they've picked up a semi veteran PG or even drafted one next year.

    The point is this, I think if you take a PG at 11, its short sighted and you aren't building something that has staying power.

    Now the exception is if you think the Bigs at 11 are stiffs and Augustine is your starting PG for the next 10 years, then I'm on board.

    I just don't want to draft Augustine just cuz Obie and Bird may only be here 2 more years and they are desperate for a Point Guard cuz Tinsley has F'd them over. It's the wrong reasons to do it.
    Last edited by Speed; 06-20-2008 at 06:45 PM.

  24. #74

    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    My biggest problem with Koufos is the presence of Murphy and his
    $30 tag over the next 3 years. Koufus is just a softer, right-handed
    version of Murphy.

    Granted, we need help up front. But what we need is an explosive
    athlete who can defend, board and finish inside in traffic. Koufos is
    the antithesis of that.

    Matta had to play zone last year to cover up for Koufos's defensive
    shortcomings. Those shortcomings will only be more glaring at the
    NBA level (of course, in that respect, he'd have plenty of company
    with Duns, Murph and Diener around).
    Last edited by Rajah Brown; 06-20-2008 at 06:30 PM.

  25. #75
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    Default Re: Pacers.com: Bird hints at possible moves in NBA Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    Just curious, Who do you think could/will be the Granger-slip of this years draft? Who would you qualify in that catagory?
    (Gordan, Lopez,...?)
    Bearing in mind that draft is one of the weakest of my many weak areas of lack of expertise, I don't think there is anyone this year likely to fall. As I recall, there were hints the week before the draft that Granger's stock was falling a bit, but it was shocking that he fell out of the top 15.

    For this year, I don't hear anyone's stock falling that I would have expected not to fall.

    Yet, anyway.
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