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Thread: What if PGs are off the board?

  1. #26
    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    So Gallinari thinks that, without playing a second in the NBA, he is somehow entitled to play for a large market team?

    Huge red flag.

  2. #27

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Really? He only said that he likes New York and New Jersey, and appearently all the talk about him only playing if gets drafted by those two teams came from his agent, why would he work out for clippers, wolves and grizzlies then?

  3. #28
    Lifer 2minutes twowa's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Really hoping to get Augustine or Westbrook, but if they're not there, then go big. Speights, Randolph or Arthur. I'm not sold on Lopez or Love. Everytime I think of them I keep thinking "Chris Mihm " for some reason And there's no way Bird picks a 3 unless another trade is brewing.

  4. #29

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    I would be fine with Westbrook because he has good size and can guard a 1 or a 2 but D.J. Augustin is so small and I think he would be really similar to Diener! If Westbrook is gone I say we go for Joe Alexander! He is athletic and has a solid midrange game that could extend to the 3 point line. Plus if we are realistic about improving the team via trades I do not see how we do it and keep both Mike Dunleavy and Granger! If we go big Kosta Koufos or Marreese Speights would be a good fit here. I also like DeAndre Jordan or Brandon Rush as picks but not at 11. If we add a pick Jordan would be a good project big man. I like Rush and hope we would find a way to get him later in the draft.

  5. #30

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by will567 View Post
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    I would be fine with Westbrook because he has good size and can guard a 1 or a 2 but D.J. Augustin is so small and I think he would be really similar to Diener! If Westbrook is gone I say we go for Joe Alexander! He is athletic and has a solid midrange game that could extend to the 3 point line. Plus if we are realistic about improving the team via trades I do not see how we do it and keep both Mike Dunleavy and Granger! If we go big Kosta Koufos or Marreese Speights would be a good fit here. I also like DeAndre Jordan or Brandon Rush as picks but not at 11. If we add a pick Jordan would be a good project big man. I like Rush and hope we would find a way to get him later in the draft.

    The Pacers don't need a project big man. They have had one for 4 years, and he's produced exactly zilch.

  6. #31
    Member Mr. Sobchak's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    So Gallinari thinks that, without playing a second in the NBA, he is somehow entitled to play for a large market team?

    Huge red flag.
    He says its because New York reminds him of Milan...

  7. #32
    Member Mr. Sobchak's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    The Pacers don't need a project big man. They have had one for 4 years, and he's produced exactly zilch.
    Agreed but there is a large difference in taking David Harrison and his questionable attitude at the end of the first round and a lottery bound center who is compared to Andrew Bynum and Dwight Howard athletically.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    alexander or speights should be available.

    any chance we can get NJ's #10 and #21 with a deal involving JO?

    Would love to come away with a couple first rounders this year...

  9. #34
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peskoe97 View Post
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    Agreed but there is a large difference in taking David Harrison and his questionable attitude at the end of the first round and a lottery bound center who is compared to Andrew Bynum and Dwight Howard athletically.
    Yes, you have much, much more to lose.

  10. #35

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Yes, you have much, much more to lose.
    And much, much more to gain.

    It's fun playing that game.

    Regardless, comparing David Harrison to the talent available at #11 as a prospect is ludicrous. If you were going to make that argument, your best evidence is Bender, but most people think it's his knees that inevitably failed him, not his ability to play basketball, so even that's not a really good example from the Pacers' past.

  11. #36
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    No, you really don't. Jordan will have to improve exponentially as a basketball player just to be on a par with Harrison. He has only rudimentary skills and hasn't really demonstrated anything to this point to say that he's going to make quantum leaps in ability.

    It's easy to look at his size and some of his athletic attributes and get excited over what he could be, when, sadly, he is almost certainly just going to be what he is.

    Bender may be a good comparison in that he had plenty of tools to become a good, even great player, but simply never knew how to play basketball. The knee injury ended Jonathan's career, but he was a bust before that. Jonathan got to the pros by being taller and more athletic than anyone else. When the NBA demanded that he be more skilled rather than just more talented, he couldn't make the leap.

    Maybe, maybe, maybe...Jordan can be touched by the hand of God and marry his freakish physical attributes with actual basketball ability, but the odds of that are obscenely long. In fact, they are probably longer odds than those of David Harrison being a productive player. Harrison, at least, only had to overcome his attitude/foul issues. By all accounts, Jordan will have to overcome a hugely lacking skill set in addition to serious questions about his maturity and attitude.

    The Pacers aren't in a position to waste a first round draft pick, especially at 11, but even if they trade back into the 20's, I can't help but think they'll be far better off, both in the short and long term, taking a guy like Courtney Lee or Mario Chalmers, or any of a number of other players over Jordan.

    I don't even consider him a gamble. I basically consider him a wasted pick.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    From a pure athletic standpoint, Jordan may be in the same ballpark as Dwight Howard. However, Howard entered the league with much more developed offensive as well as defensive skills.

    http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/dwight_howard.asp

    All DeAndre Jordan is, essentially at this point, is an big, long athletic body that can probably get some close put-backs at the rim, run the floor, and rebound. He really has no offensive skills he can rely on. His low post game is very primitive, and he has no jump shot. On defense, he has potential as a shotblocker, but hasn't been the force he should be with his athletic ability. Until he gets stronger, he's going to get pushed around, but that's basically true for most big men entering the league.

    Dwight Howard didn't enter the league looking like the chiseled Superman he does today. I guarantee you he hit the weight room, and he hit it hard as well as the gym. Does DeAndre Jordan have that motivation...that drive? By all indications, no. If you read the ESPN article on him, he seems overly sensitive and doesn't really have that passion for the game. What's he going to do when he gets that first NBA paycheck?

    The Pacers don't really have the luxury of striking out with the #11 pick. I'd like to take someone with a high upside, but even I think DeAndre Jordan is too boom or bust....and more than likely, I think he'll be a bust. Big men take a long time to develop as it is, but when you aren't particularly motivated, who knows if Jordan will develop at all.

  13. #38

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    No, you really don't. Jordan will have to improve exponentially as a basketball player just to be on a par with Harrison. He has only rudimentary skills and hasn't really demonstrated anything to this point to say that he's going to make quantum leaps in ability.

    It's easy to look at his size and some of his athletic attributes and get excited over what he could be, when, sadly, he is almost certainly just going to be what he is.

    Bender may be a good comparison in that he had plenty of tools to become a good, even great player, but simply never knew how to play basketball. The knee injury ended Jonathan's career, but he was a bust before that. Jonathan got to the pros by being taller and more athletic than anyone else. When the NBA demanded that he be more skilled rather than just more talented, he couldn't make the leap.

    Maybe, maybe, maybe...Jordan can be touched by the hand of God and marry his freakish physical attributes with actual basketball ability, but the odds of that are obscenely long. In fact, they are probably longer odds than those of David Harrison being a productive player. Harrison, at least, only had to overcome his attitude/foul issues. By all accounts, Jordan will have to overcome a hugely lacking skill set in addition to serious questions about his maturity and attitude.

    The Pacers aren't in a position to waste a first round draft pick, especially at 11, but even if they trade back into the 20's, I can't help but think they'll be far better off, both in the short and long term, taking a guy like Courtney Lee or Mario Chalmers, or any of a number of other players over Jordan.

    I don't even consider him a gamble. I basically consider him a wasted pick.
    Saying that Harrison "only" needing to overcome attitude/foul issues is better than someone like Jordan "only" needing to overcome a lack of knowledge is like saying that an electician with a heroin addiction "only" needs to get off heroin to be a good electrician. I'd much rather hang my hopes on the apprentice electrician who only needs to be taught how to be an electrician.


    That's simplified, and obviously Jordan (and every other big at 11) has some questions marks, but no more than David had coming out of college. Remember, when we drafted Harrison, there were questions about his work ethic, drive, heart, upside, and attitude. Turns out, he has shown good work ethic and heart, but indeed, his T-Rex arms and bad attitude have kept him from becoming a dominant center. What I'm saying is, every big has question marks, but there's a reason Harrison fell to the bottom of the first round, and there's a reason guys like Jordan, McGee, and Hibbert won't.

    I challenge you to go find game tape of Bender's final 20 games. Despite having microfracture surgery on both knees, he was developing a very, very good post game, to the point that the Spurs were double-teaming him. Also, Bender never relied solely on his height and athleticism in high school, otherwise all those points he scored in the All-American game would have been on dunks and putbacks instead of jumpshots and 3-pointers. There's so much revisionist history regarding Bender it makes me sick. Kid really had a legit shot at being Garnett with handles and 3 point range. Sure, he had a lot to work on, but it's not like the Pacers didn't know that, and while it took him several years, he was starting to "get it" when his knees finally gave out on him.

    I guess it also depends on what your definition of a "wasted" pick is. To me, a wasted pick also includes drafting a guy that you KNOW will never be an All-Star, and for me, Augustin falls into that category. I'd rather gamble and lose than not gamble and still lose. This team needs athleticism and talent, because we have plenty of backups who are skilled but flawed.
    Last edited by Eindar; 06-18-2008 at 06:28 AM.

  14. #39

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    From a pure athletic standpoint, Jordan may be in the same ballpark as Dwight Howard. However, Howard entered the league with much more developed offensive as well as defensive skills.
    which is saying a lot because dwight wasn't that great offensively at all coming out of high school.

  15. #40
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    He was still lightyears ahead of where Jordan is in his development, and that was with no college experience. Jordan has had 1 more year and is probably less of an offensive threat than Jeff Foster.

    Read the draftprofile, Dwight Howard at least had a groundwork laid offensively, Jordan has nothing except "potential".

  16. #41

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    He was still lightyears ahead of where Jordan is in his development, and that was with no college experience. Jordan has had 1 more year and is probably less of an offensive threat than Jeff Foster.

    Read the draftprofile, Dwight Howard at least had a groundwork laid offensively, Jordan has nothing except "potential".
    and that's my point. howard was not that great on offense which shows just how bad of an offensive player jordan is at this point.

  17. #42
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Sorry, misread your post. I'm in agreement.

  18. #43
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    I think I read somewhere that Westbrook cancelled workout with NJ and they pick at #10.

    So it seems like he may have a promise in the top 9

  19. #44
    Expect Delays blanket's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    I think I read somewhere that Westbrook cancelled workout with NJ and they pick at #10.

    So it seems like he may have a promise in the top 9
    If that's the case, then why is he still scheduled to work out for the Pacers on Thursday? Maybe it's more like NJ made a promise to Gallinari, so Westbrook thinks it would be a waste of time to work out for them...
    "I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
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  20. #45
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Boy, lot of head games going on with promises, workout schedules, etc.

    Half these guys are going to do zilch, but luckily for us we won't know who on draft night, thus we'll have a night loaded with excitement, surprises and perhaps real drama.

    Could be the most exciting Pacers night this season (07-08 I mean).

  21. #46
    Lifer 2minutes twowa's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket View Post
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    If that's the case, then why is he still scheduled to work out for the Pacers on Thursday? Maybe it's more like NJ made a promise to Gallinari, so Westbrook thinks it would be a waste of time to work out for them...
    Plus Jersey is pretty well set at the PG position. Kinda like how the Pacers don't have many workouts scheduled for SF prospects.
    Turn out the lights, this party's over!

  22. #47

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Looks like Westbrook is out! He must have a promise in the top 9! I got this list from th pacers.com web site and do not see Westbrook on it. That leaves D. J. Augustin. I just think he is to small to be an impact player!





    Plenty of star power in final group for pre-draft workouts
    With LSU's Anthony Randolph and Kansas' Darrell Arthur headlining a strong seven-man group, the Pacers will have plenty of star power in Conseco Fieldhouse for their final pre-draft workout Thursday. Also due in are Mario Chalmers (Kansas), Jamont Gordon (Mississippi State), Mike Green (Butler), Trent Plaisted (BYU) and Shaun Pruitt (Illinois).

  23. #48
    Member Mr. Sobchak's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Someone good is definitely going to slip. I can feel it. Clippers and Bobcats are going to take Augustin and Westbrook and Lopez is going to fall. Book it.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peskoe97 View Post
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    Someone good is definitely going to slip. I can feel it. Clippers and Bobcats are going to take Augustin and Westbrook and Lopez is going to fall. Book it.
    I sure hope so. I'd hate for Augustin to be available at #11.
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  25. #50
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    mike wells just posted the same question in his blog:

    http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsi...westbro_1.html

    What if Westbrook and Augustin are already off the board?
    Posted by Mike Wells

    Did anybody else stay up late last night to watch the Lakers get embarrassed by the Celtics?

    I originally said I was going to go to bed at halftime when Boston was up by 23 points. I decided to stay up so that I could see the Big Ticket (Garnett) win his first NBA title. I've always enjoyed watching K.G. play. He plays hard all the time and he knows how to get his teammates to follow his lead.

    I remember Minnesota officials telling me that they had force Garnett off the court after practice. He also hated when his squad didn't win scrimmages in practice.

    Just think, K.G., Pierce, Allen, Rondo and Perkins will all be back next season. The Celtics will likely be favored to win it all again.

    All eyes can shift to the draft now that the season is officially over - two months after the regular season ended.

    There's been plenty of talk about the Pacers possibly taking UCLA's Russell Westbrook or Texas' D.J. Augustin with the No. 11 pick.

    That got me thinking, what if both players are already gone by the time their selection rolls around?

    I've seen Westbrook going as high as No. 6 to Donnie Walsh's New York Knicks and Augustin going in the top 10, too, on some mock drafts.

    Without tipping his hand, one Pacers official told me they have a backup plan if both players are gone.

    Big men Anthony Randolph, DeAndre Jordan and Kosta Koufos should be available at No. 11. I don't get how a player - Jordan - that averaged 7.9 points, 6.0 rebounds and 44 percent from the free throw line last season is a possible lottery pick.

    Should the Pacers look to trade down if they can't get Augustin or Westbrook? Should they keep the pick and go big?
    check the bolded statement. confirmation or smokescreen?

    btw, i don't mind if we end up with augustin. he's probably the safest pick for us. but i'd prefer if we swing for upside at #11 and pick up chalmers a little later, if we can get an extra pick.

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