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  1. #1
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
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    Default What if PGs are off the board?

    I'm not going to conduct a poll b/c that would leave a variety of players, but what if the PGs and combo guards are all off the board?

    As the draft is nearing, they're a lot of rumblings that Westbrook and Augustin are rising on draft boards.

    Realgm has them gone by the time we pick. I think Chad Ford may have them off the board in his next mock as well.

    It's really possible that picks 6,7, and 8 could consist of Augustin, Westbrook, and Gordon (in no particular order)

    Do we then choose a big? What if the best player available is a wing? Do we take ANOTHER wing and trade a guy like Dun Dun?

    Do we trade down and try to get Chalmers while adding a piece, since Lawson is out of the draft?

    Do we try and trade for a PG?

    Do we not worry about it and hope Tinsley is healthy and has no hard feelings about the comments surrounding him?

    Do we try and move up to get one of the guards?


    I'm just curious what others think the Pacers should do, if it's looking like the guards will be off the board at #11?

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    Member Mr. Sobchak's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    I would try to trade the pick for the best young guard that we are able to get. Someone like Randy Foye, Kirk Hinrich, or TJ Ford.

  3. #3

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Trade the pick, or go for broke with a guy like McGee who is a big project. What I don't want to see us do is draft a career backup who we know will never be a star in the league. I think we're in the position where we need a break.

  4. #4

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    Trade the pick, or go for broke with a guy like McGee who is a big project. What I don't want to see us do is draft a career backup who we know will never be a star in the league. I think we're in the position where we need a break.

    We've already had one of those for 4 years in Harrison! Thanx but no thanx, I'm out of patience waiting for another project to develop... if ever.

  5. #5
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    It'd be nice to trade down, but I don't see that happening in this draft. If we're stuck, take whichever Kansas kid you like the best.
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    BPA (that doesn't play a wing position). Not because of our situation with them, but due to the fact that wings seem to be a "dime a dozen" and don't hold the value that a front court or point does right now.
    ...Still "flying casual"
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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    If Augustin, Westbrooke, and Gordon are all picked before us, somebody good should have dropped. I mean, we all agree that Rose/Beasley/Mayo/Bayless are gone, so that's 7 players. Hard to imagine Gallinari dropping out of the top 10. Who's left?

    Love, Lopez, Randolph are probably the top 3 players left... one of them has to be there at #11.
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    If Augustin, Westbrooke, and Gordon are all picked before us, somebody good should have dropped. I mean, we all agree that Rose/Beasley/Mayo/Bayless are gone, so that's 7 players. Hard to imagine Gallinari dropping out of the top 10. Who's left?

    Love, Lopez, Randolph are probably the top 3 players left... one of them has to be there at #11.
    Exactly, this pick will get us some1 good. I think we should take a big man anyways, but we do need a point.

    No matter what we do I know we will be getting a good player at 11 if we are wise. I think this draft relies on our second round pick and the impact this player has. This is were I'd like to see us trade up. Maybe we can unload JO and trade up our second rounder for a 25 or later pick?

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    If Augustin, Westbrooke, and Gordon are all picked before us, somebody good should have dropped. I mean, we all agree that Rose/Beasley/Mayo/Bayless are gone, so that's 7 players. Hard to imagine Gallinari dropping out of the top 10. Who's left?

    Love, Lopez, Randolph are probably the top 3 players left... one of them has to be there at #11.
    We're doing a Mock on RealGM Pacer board, (15 different guys, each with two teams, to get the "surprise" factor a little more) and exactly this scenario happened. Gordon went 6, Westbrook 7, then, surprisingly, Augustin 8. This was the top 10:

    1 Bulls darkflashfox - Derrick Rose, PG, Memphis
    2 Heat FreeRon - Michael Beasley, PF, Kansas St
    3 Wolves Grang33r - O.J. Mayo, SG, USC
    4 Sonics blaha112 - Jerryd Bayless, PG/SG, Arizona
    5 Grizzlies darkflashfox - Kevin Love, PF, UCLA
    6 Knicks dcbaseballer52 - Eric Gordon, SG, Indiana
    7 Clippers PR07 - Russell Westbrook, PG/SG, UCLA
    8 Bucks FreeRon - DJ Augustin, PG, Texas
    9 Bobcats DGrangeRx33 - Anthony Randolph, PF, LSU
    10 Nets PR07 - Brook Lopez, C, Stanford
    It was Gallinari who had dropped, but the poster who had the Pacers took Mareese Speights. Here was his comment on the deal:

    Quote Originally Posted by mizzoupacers
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    Well you guys have joined forces to create the worst-case scenario for the Pacers at #11. No Westbrook...no Augustin...and the guy who "falls" to us is the one consensus top-ten player who is a small forward, Danilo Gallinari.

    If this is really how the first ten picks are going to go, then I hope our front office manages to trade our pick, hopefully at a highly inflated price on draft night. But as there are no trades allowed in this thread,

    "With the eleventh pick in the 2008 draft, the Indiana Pacers select Marreese Speights from the University of Florida."

    Apologies to Gallinari, DeAndre Jordan, and Darrell Arthur. But I like Speights's combination of tangible results (14.5/8.1/1.4 blocks, in less than 25 minutes per game), size, and "upside" (sorry Count, it's that time of year). Here's a little reading material on Speights:

    Speights Profile on Draft Express

    which seems like a fairly balanced report to me. No one available to me at #11 in this draft is without a few warts...I'm going to play my hunch that the whispers about poor work ethic and etc. are overblown, much like Granger's supposed knee problems were overblown when he fell to us in the 2005 draft. Because otherwise, Speights sounds kinda like a young JO to me.
    We debated back and forth in the thread, (I had come to the conclusion that we'd need to take Gallinari, but that was before the "Fran Vasquez situation" comparisons), but I've actually come to be OK with the idea of Speights if the PG's are gone. Considering that I think Love has become pretty much of a lock for top 10, I'd feel more comfortable with Speights than either Lopez or Randolph.

    Disclaimer: I am in no way trying to pretend the Mock on RealGM was even vaguely scientific. However, I think by having 15 different people doing it, it did a decent job of simulating the uncertainty of draft night. The wild card nature of what can happen if one guy jumps or one guy slips.

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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    We debated back and forth in the thread, (I had come to the conclusion that we'd need to take Gallinari, but that was before the "Fran Vasquez situation" comparisons), but I've actually come to be OK with the idea of Speights if the PG's are gone. Considering that I think Love has become pretty much of a lock for top 10, I'd feel more comfortable with Speights than either Lopez or Randolph.

    Disclaimer: I am in no way trying to pretend the Mock on RealGM was even vaguely scientific. However, I think by having 15 different people doing it, it did a decent job of simulating the uncertainty of draft night. The wild card nature of what can happen if one guy jumps or one guy slips.
    I could live with taking Speights in this scenario.

    Gallinari would be interesting from a talent stand point, but then again if he drops that probably means he's more likely to be a SF Darko in terms of panning out, so forget it.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Not that they are very accurate, but yeah RealGM has us taking Speights. Me? I would rather skip a big guy whose main weakness is his motor. If Westbrook Augustin or Alexander aren't there, I would like to see a trade down for a PF like Hickson or White.

    All that is dependent on who we have on the roster or any trades we do, but as of right now, that is what i want to see.

  12. #12
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by gph View Post
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    Not that they are very accurate, but yeah RealGM has us taking Speights. Me? I would rather skip a big guy whose main weakness is his motor. If Westbrook Augustin or Alexander aren't there, I would like to see a trade down for a PF like Hickson or White.

    All that is dependent on who we have on the roster or any trades we do, but as of right now, that is what i want to see.
    Yeah, RealGM's mock done by Chris Reina that came out today had the Pacers taking Speights, too, but, to be clear, I was talking about the one being done by the posters on the Pacer board. Not that it's particularly accurate.

    We had discussed allowing trades in the thread, but decided it was too difficult to administer. Even mizzou had said he'd trade down in that position, but that's easier said than done...given the limited amount of time available on draft night, you'd almost have to have the deal in place contingent on how the first 10 picks went.

  13. #13
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Gallinari would be interesting from a talent stand point, but then again if he drops that probably means he's more likely to be a SF Darko in terms of panning out, so forget it.
    Gallinari has said he'll stay in Europe if anyone except New York or New Jersey drafts him.
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    Member Mr. Sobchak's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Gallinari has said he'll stay in Europe if anyone except New York or New Jersey drafts him.
    Actually thats not technically correct. He said he would like to go to those teams because he likes the area but has opted to stay in the draft despite not having a promise from either team.

    This was an article posted over at realgm. http://www.gazzetta.it/Sport_Vari/Ba...allinari.shtml

    This is what an poster from Italy had to say about the situation:

    It basically reports that Danilo is 99% in the draft but he has no promise from NY or NJ since he'll work out in Los Angeles this weekend for other NBA teams (Memphis and Indiana cited in the article).

    His father and agent, Vittorio Gallinari, says that all the 11 first teams in the draft are somehow interested in Danilo, especially Miami, Minnesota and Memphis.

    So he still likes New York Area the most, but he'd be ready to play for other teams as well.

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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Love, Lopez, Randolph are probably the top 3 players left...

    I would be happy with any of these...

    but I'm hoping for a PG whose nickname would be Russell the Love Muscle...

  16. #16

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    There is no way DJ Augustine is going to the Knicks. They would be stupid to draft him that high and it sounds like Walsh is throwing some false information out there for people like Chad Ford.

    I agree that it would appear that someone would drop if all the guards are picked before 11.

  17. #17
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    I just don't see Augustin being picked before #11.
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    Marreese Speights!

    Speights, Westbrook or Augustin would make me very happy.

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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    I think its far more likely that Love, Lopez & Randolph are gone at picks 6, 7 & 8 than the trio of Gordon, Westbrook & Augustine.

    I'm agreeing with Anthem here too. I think Augustine will still be on the board at 11.

  20. #20

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    This is why I love the draft. In theory, Augustin should be there at #11, but then again, in theory, Danny Granger should have been drafted in the top 5. It's a huge guessing game, but either way, I get the feeling someone with a lot of talent is going to fall to us, whether it's Gordon, Love, or Westbrooke.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    even if dj and russell are available i'd still be looking at trades, so if they're gone that too would continue. but i agree with count that i'd look at speights or arthur.
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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    I'm still in the Arthur camp, but if it's Westbrook out there I'd be interested as long as they moved Dunleavy to clear up the SG position for him. If that brings back a PG and a later pick then you've addressed several issues without even moving JO yet.

    But Gallinari slipping past the Knicks is the one that I doubt. How can D'Antoni not want him?

  23. #23
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    how often do rookie PGs or big men make a great impact their rookie year? Conley struggled to crack the lineup (injury did not help) until after Damon was released. Acie Law was a disappointment.

    I would try to draft the best PG or big man available, but not really solely on their acquisition. If we get Westbrook or Augustin can we truly depend on them to be a solid backup to a solid backup. I really think that the approach that Bird takes is to draft a front court player who can contribute a few years down the road. Play David Harrison minutes the first year or so. Ty Thomas is a good example.

  24. #24

    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    if we aren't drafting alexander, love, ej, or randolph at #11, we might as well try to trade down.

  25. #25
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if PGs are off the board?

    No, you really don't. Jordan will have to improve exponentially as a basketball player just to be on a par with Harrison. He has only rudimentary skills and hasn't really demonstrated anything to this point to say that he's going to make quantum leaps in ability.

    It's easy to look at his size and some of his athletic attributes and get excited over what he could be, when, sadly, he is almost certainly just going to be what he is.

    Bender may be a good comparison in that he had plenty of tools to become a good, even great player, but simply never knew how to play basketball. The knee injury ended Jonathan's career, but he was a bust before that. Jonathan got to the pros by being taller and more athletic than anyone else. When the NBA demanded that he be more skilled rather than just more talented, he couldn't make the leap.

    Maybe, maybe, maybe...Jordan can be touched by the hand of God and marry his freakish physical attributes with actual basketball ability, but the odds of that are obscenely long. In fact, they are probably longer odds than those of David Harrison being a productive player. Harrison, at least, only had to overcome his attitude/foul issues. By all accounts, Jordan will have to overcome a hugely lacking skill set in addition to serious questions about his maturity and attitude.

    The Pacers aren't in a position to waste a first round draft pick, especially at 11, but even if they trade back into the 20's, I can't help but think they'll be far better off, both in the short and long term, taking a guy like Courtney Lee or Mario Chalmers, or any of a number of other players over Jordan.

    I don't even consider him a gamble. I basically consider him a wasted pick.

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