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Thread: I'm fighting back!!!

  1. #1
    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default I'm fighting back!!!

    Well, I added my two cents at the Indiana Barrister website in regards to the Vancouver rumor.
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Gnome @ IndianaBarrister
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    R. Gnome
    May 16th, 2009 at 1:17 am
    I support the Indiana Pacers staying here in Indianapolis. The Simons have gone out of their way to right the ship and give Indiana a team that we can be proud of.
    I will stand by Observer and also mention that comments like the ones of Melyssa’s are very misinformed considering the guys that are currently on the team. Since Larry Bird has assumed total control, the days of the wild west here in Indy are done from the Pacers side of the ledger.
    At the end of the day, State and local politicians will come together and find a solution to the CIB funding crisis because our politicos don’t want to send any kind of indicator that Central Indiana is in decline. Anyway, no matter what… whether Conseco has a tenant or not, the city would have to pay for the venue’s upkeep. It’s a greater waste of money to keep up a venue without a major tenant.
    I just get tired of the C.A.V.E. (Citizens Against Virtually Everything) speaking for me. My statement was just a show of support for the Pacers and some logic that I didn't feel like debating on that forum.

    As Pacer fans, I think it is time to fight back against the loud mouths that put out bullsh*t about our team. My team isn't a group of thugs, and I'm really starting to get pissed about it. I'm tired of these people being the "vocal majority". I'm going to start sounding off even if the only sound I can make is a show of support.

    I think I'm going to start with writing something for the "sports letters" section of the Sunday Star just to let anyone know that it's ok to love the Pacers and they are not alone. It's time for us to start being "heard".


    Who's with me?
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Well seeing that I'm out of state now I don't think my word would mean too much to the locals.

    Fight the good, fight, though. I fully support what you're doing.

    People who think the Pacers are currently a team full of "thugs" are evading reality.

  4. #3
    Formerly QuickRelease NapTonius Monk's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!




    Kill the BEAST!

  5. #4
    Indy's #1 Hockey Fan Peter_sixtyftsixin's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    I used to be in a punk band, I miss yelling at people. I'm down.

  6. #5
    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    This thread should be used as a clearinghouse for narrow minded arguments used against the Pacers. People should post common falsehoods used against the Pacers with the correct response here.

  7. #6
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Good job Gnome. I think we all can do our part when we talk to people who spout
    untruths about the players currently on the Pacers. I really do not want the Pacers to go the way of Indiana HS basketball, which basically died for the most part when it went class.
    The NBA will not come back if the Pacers leave. However it has to work financially for
    all parties. There is not a lot of sympathy from the general work force when people
    are losing their jobs at a very high rate and some more hits are coming with GM and
    Chrysler re-organizing.
    {o,o}
    |)__)
    -"-"-

  8. #7
    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Good idea, Gnome. I, too am getting sick and tired of these people mouthing off about things they don't know.

    If you don't know what you're talking about. Keep your mouth shut, it's that simple.
    Super Bowl XLI Champions
    2000 Eastern Conference Champions





  9. #8
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Gnome

    You have a link to that site?

    got it

    http://www.indianabarrister.com/arch...vancouver.html
    Last edited by Jose Slaughter; 05-17-2009 at 07:08 PM.

  10. #9

    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Gnome is taking the right kind of action and I thank him. Every one of us ought to take up the challenge and try to help in some way.

    1. Write to public forums (as Gnome as done) and provide facts.
    2. Talk up the Pacers to your friends, neighbors and co-workers.
    3. Take someone who wouldn't normally go to a game.
    4. Buy more tickets than you did last year.



    But...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helmet
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    If you don't know what you're talking about. Keep your mouth shut, it's that simple.


    The people who unfairly criticize the Pacers have the same right to their opinion as we do. There is no rule in this country that only well-informed people are entitled to opinions. There is no rule that only people with up-to-date data may hold opinions.

    The people who criticize the Pacers are misinformed. What they say about the Pacers was true at one time, but they make the mistake of thinking it still true. We all do that. There are people on this forum who think Bruce Springsteen is still The Boss. There ere people on this forum whose opinions of American cars was formed in the 70s and hasn't changed in 30 years. So we ought to understand how people can hang onto opinions.

    And remember this: many of those unfair critics AREN'T basketball fans at all, but just about all of them ARE taxpayers. We expect them to support our expensive little playground through their tax dollars.

    It is quite possible that many critics don't even care about the probity of the players, even if they make a point of it in their commments. Regardless of the players, they don't want their tax dollars going to support a venue they'll never set foot inside. We need to be sympathetic to that.

    So, take up Gnome's challenge, but do it with some grace and gentleness, please!
    Last edited by Putnam; 05-17-2009 at 07:47 PM.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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  12. #10
    Member pianoman's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    I do not read the message boards or any article comments anymore at the indystar website. It is sad how some still think they are all thugs... It shows how uninformed people are.
    Passion, Pride, Playoffs, Pacers

  13. #11
    Member Pacers's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Regardless of the players, they don't want their tax dollars going to support a venue they'll never set foot inside. We need to be sympathetic to that.
    I dunno about having to be sympathetic to this point. My tax dollars go to plenty of things around the city that don't impact me directly. It's like saying you're upset that your tax dollars are going to repair 465 on the West Side when you live on the North East side and never drive on the West side.

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  15. #12
    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Gnome is taking the right kind of action and I thank him. Every one of us ought to take up the challenge and try to help in some way.

    1. Write to public forums (as Gnome as done) and provide facts.
    2. Talk up the Pacers to your friends, neighbors and co-workers.
    3. Take someone who wouldn't normally go to a game.
    4. Buy more tickets than you did last year.



    But...




    The people who unfairly criticize the Pacers have the same right to their opinion as we do. There is no rule in this country that only well-informed people are entitled to opinions. There is no rule that only people with up-to-date data may hold opinions.

    The people who criticize the Pacers are misinformed. What they say about the Pacers was true at one time, but they make the mistake of thinking it still true. We all do that. There are people on this forum who think Bruce Springsteen is still The Boss. There ere people on this forum whose opinions of American cars was formed in the 70s and hasn't changed in 30 years. So we ought to understand how people can hang onto opinions.

    And remember this: many of those unfair critics AREN'T basketball fans at all, but just about all of them ARE taxpayers. We expect them to support our expensive little playground through their tax dollars.

    It is quite possible that many critics don't even care about the probity of the players, even if they make a point of it in their commments. Regardless of the players, they don't want their tax dollars going to support a venue they'll never set foot inside. We need to be sympathetic to that.

    So, take up Gnome's challenge, but do it with some grace and gentleness, please!
    Good point, although the uninformed are annoying, it is true. You may have gotten the wrong message of my post a little or I should have clarified a tad bit better.

    But I don't plan on going there and posting hateful or angry messages towards the misinformed people, I do know that isn't going to solve anything.
    Super Bowl XLI Champions
    2000 Eastern Conference Champions





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  17. #13
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Good for you, Gnome! Fight the man!

  18. #14
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    While those who do not want their tax money going to a team that will not benefit them directly, it does affect them indirectly. Would buisness and tourism slow down during the months that the Pacers play? Do the Pacers employ residents, thus creating jobs and revenue that finds its way back into the system?

    The question is if the cost to keep them is more, so than the benefit of having them.

  19. #15
    The light, not the lie. kester99's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    PD Truth Squad. I like it.
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

  20. #16
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Here is my battle cry:



    Adult Language Warning.

  21. #17

    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    The people who unfairly criticize the Pacers have the same right to their opinion as we do. There is no rule in this country that only well-informed people are entitled to opinions. There is no rule that only people with up-to-date data may hold opinions.

    Meh, and double Meh. Triple Meh even.


    If their opinions are wrong then "screw-em & feed-em fish heads".

    There, its just that plain and simple.




    Great post BTW Gnome.

  22. #18
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Good post Gnome. This is what I posted:

    When it comes to professional sports teams asking for money or renegotiation of terms with a city there will always be negative things said about the team, the management, and owners. It comes with the territory as does talk of the team potentially moving.

    However, the thing I never understand is the unwarranted vitriol towards the players that people like to spout whether its fact or misinformed opinion. In this instance the word "Thugs" has been stated multiple times to describe the Indiana Pacers and it couldn't be farther from the truth. I defy anyone to name one player that even remotely fits the definition of a "thug".

    Anyone who has had any problems with law or been considered a knucklehead has been sent packing and the team that was led by Danny Granger (the NBA's Most Improved Player Award winner) this past season are likeable upstanding citizens. The Indiana Pacers from this past season has been as squeeky clean as the Reggie Miller, Mark Jackson, Rik Smits days.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

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  24. #19
    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    There are people on this forum who think Bruce Springsteen is still The Boss.
    When did this change?

  25. #20
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    And remember this: many of those unfair critics AREN'T basketball fans at all, but just about all of them ARE taxpayers. We expect them to support our expensive little playground through their tax dollars.
    True, but my 250% property tax increase on 2 Center Township properties sure as heck isn't putting my non-existing kid through school, fixing the beat to hell side street/alley next to my home, or doing much of anything else to improve my life currently.

    Taxes are about community, not about getting yours for your dollars. I share my money (lots of it) for projects that don't directly impact me, so IMO they can STFU and return the favor as decent Americans.

    The problem is a lot of these jerks only get uptight when the squeeze comes for something they don't want or for when they have to start paying more. If you're paying for something they want then their voice of reason is markedly inaudible.


    As for uninformed OPINIONS, that's fine. But when actions are taken based on those opinions, actions that affect other people, then the hammer needs to come down. You shouldn't vote uninformed.

    Heck, the rule of thumb should be to look at the effort you put into researching a car, home, or other major life choice before making it. Voting and public financial choices should be treated with the same care. Instead people treat it like buying a car at 15% interest and 20K overpriced just because the opinion guy at the Star said it was a good idea or because the commercial had a pretty girl on it. And then the rest of the public is drug along into that cost since it's a community choice.


    To me what Gnome is saying is that the informed need to start pushing back against the uninformed instead of remaining passive. Maybe we don't shout them down, but we should be able to easily "reason" them down with smarter, saner arguments. The key is to get those arguments into the public eye so these jackholes look as stupid as they actually are.

    That's where public favor will swing. Let's face it, we're going to have to bring the mountain to Moses on this one.

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  27. #21

    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Seth
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    To me what Gnome is saying is that the informed need to start pushing back against the uninformed instead of remaining passive. Maybe we don't shout them down, but we should be able to easily "reason" them down with smarter, saner arguments.
    Yes!



    .
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  28. #22
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    When did this change?
    I'm going to have to do my best Will Galen impersonation here.

    He IS The Boss. That was the title given to him years ago. Therefore, it is merely the proper application of the English language to think of him as The Boss as it is factually true.

    As long as his concert promoters put him in the starting lineup as "The Boss", he's a "The Boss", no matter whether you think he's playing second fiddle or not. You may not think he's a Legitmate Boss (and one could argue that Evan and Jessie are not "Legitimate" children of The Boss and Ms. Scialfa, but they did get married before Jessie was born) but he's The Boss and always will be.

    When they play Ramrod and Little Steven (who is legitimately large, by the way) introduces Bruce's solo as "Its Boss Time", there is no confusion whatsoever what that means.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  29. #23
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    True, but my 250% property tax increase on 2 Center Township properties sure as heck isn't putting my non-existing kid through school, fixing the beat to hell side street/alley next to my home, or doing much of anything else to improve my life currently.

    Taxes are about community, not about getting yours for your dollars. I share my money (lots of it) for projects that don't directly impact me, so IMO they can STFU and return the favor as decent Americans.

    The problem is a lot of these jerks only get uptight when the squeeze comes for something they don't want or for when they have to start paying more. If you're paying for something they want then their voice of reason is markedly inaudible.


    As for uninformed OPINIONS, that's fine. But when actions are taken based on those opinions, actions that affect other people, then the hammer needs to come down. You shouldn't vote uninformed.

    Heck, the rule of thumb should be to look at the effort you put into researching a car, home, or other major life choice before making it. Voting and public financial choices should be treated with the same care. Instead people treat it like buying a car at 15% interest and 20K overpriced just because the opinion guy at the Star said it was a good idea or because the commercial had a pretty girl on it. And then the rest of the public is drug along into that cost since it's a community choice.


    To me what Gnome is saying is that the informed need to start pushing back against the uninformed instead of remaining passive. Maybe we don't shout them down, but we should be able to easily "reason" them down with smarter, saner arguments. The key is to get those arguments into the public eye so these jackholes look as stupid as they actually are.

    That's where public favor will swing. Let's face it, we're going to have to bring the mountain to Moses on this one.
    Unfortunately, our means of actually reaching the right people to influence the decisions is quite limited, both in size and overall importance in their day-to-day lives. The politicians and other powers-that-be are only as "smart" as the average voter / customer allows them to be due to the fact that money in the form of either political contributions or media advertisments tends to flow in the same direction as overall public opinion dictates.

    A winning team would do wonders in garnering the support of the franchise in its efforts with the whole CIB mess.

  30. #24

    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    I shouldn't have taken a swing at Bruce in this thread, even though ChicagoJ's astute rejoinder was not to be missed.

    I'm sorry for the distraction from Gnome's excellent message.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  31. #25
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm fighting back!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    I shouldn't have taken a swing at Bruce in this thread, even though ChicagoJ's astute rejoinder was not to be missed.
    I owed you one from the Anthony Johnson comment a few weeks back.

    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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