Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 134

Thread: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

  1. #101
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,747

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I see it as pretty obvious that JO doesn't want to be part of what he feels is a rebuilding team. He wants to play for a team who is competing for a championship, and lets admit it "that's not the Pacers."
    I don't even know if I agree with that. If the Pacers weren't rebuilding, I'm still not sure that Jermaine would say it. I think he and Larry don't like being around each other.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  2. #102

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    [QUOTE=NuffSaid;731867] {What are you? Some kind of message board stalker?}

    Avid reader! Read 3 different boards religiously daily. On the Star board, you were polar opposite of Ojor in regards to JO. Some posters just stand out for their misguided views compared to others, and both of you did!




    {They just lacked defense.}

    Perimeter defense is more important to me than JO's defense.



    {The other side of it was not having a "go-to-guy" in the clutch.
    Regardless, defense remains an area that needs to be addressed, as well as identifying a prominate "experienced" interior post presence. Who else is available who can fill that role without taking away from the pieces the team already have in place and still allow the team to move forward and be competitive?}

    I guess you must have missed where JOB said Granger was going to be the "go to guy." He never mentioned JO as the "go to guy."

    As far as post D taking 3-4 years to develop, you are describing a rookie/pick. Who says it has to be? All the Pacers need is someone who can defend the paint, grab some rebs, and score 8-9 points a game. It doesn't have to be an allstar, just a Foster type player. Preferably, one that can hit a lay up/put back with more consistancy!



    {With only a few exceptions, I'd take a gimpy JO over pretty much any PF in the league today.}

    Who are you? A JO relative, JO's agent, or misguided JO fan? It has to be one of those, b/c who else would "take a gimpy JO over pretty much any PF in the league today." Sorry, but that statement just goes to show "your blind infatuation/love for JO."

    Look up your hero's games he's missed the last 4 years, then tell me how much money he "took" from the Simons w/o contributing a thing. It makes no difference how good a player is, if they aren't contributing to the team that is paying their salary year after year while they are sitting.



    {You can find another (Point) Guard pretty much any day of the week. That was proven when Flip Murray came in and shored up the PG role and look how things improved even if just a little bit. PF/C's aren't so easy to come by.}

    There are 6-8 teams, including the Pacers, who are looking for "one of those PG's you can find any day of the week." They are still looking for them either thru this draft or thru a trade. IOW, I'm not buying into that statement, like some others of yours.

    Just think in terms of ownership, and not with your heart. JMOAA
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 06-07-2008 at 05:52 PM.

  3. #103
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Little Rock, AR
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,374

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    A gimpy JO is less use to us than Shaq was in Phoenix. A healthy JO, that's a little different, but it's also a myth at this point in his career.

    I think I'd make the exact inverse statement. I'd take nearly any starting PF in the league over a gimpy JO.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    JT,

    I like the way you sliced and diced my post there, buddy. Way to quote me completely out of context.

    I eluded to perimeter defense as a problem with this team, but I don't ignore the fact that interior defense was just as problematic.

    I did say Granger and Dunleavy shared the role as "go-to-guy" in the clutch, but indicated that neither had fully embraced the role. In fact, neither were willing to accept it until the last 15 or so games of the season. Hopefully, one of them will take charge of this crucial role next season and beyond.

    And yes, trading JO could very well mean depending on the development of a rookie draft pick as I seriously doubt the Pacers would be able to acquire a solid veteran PF/C in this manner especially with everyone being so focused on reducing the cap and gaining some measure of financial flexibility. What sense would it make for this team to go out and sign another veteran PF to a multi-year contract when the whole idea is to find some financial relief? The smart thing to do is to retain JO, ensure he has everything at his disposal to come in heathy as a horse running the Kentucy Derby, and see what he can do for atleast one more season because honestly I seriously doubt any team will take him at $44M - not unless they have every intention to play him for just one year and trade him (which IMO is exactly what Bird might have in mind to do after next season). I still ask the question, "Who are the Pacers going to get to replace him at fair value WITHOUT tearing down the team?" It's not the way I'd go and right now it certainly doesn't look like it's what Bird/Morway want to do...not if they want to try and remain somewhat competitive (or reduce the time table to become competitors in the East) any time soon.

    But hey, what do I know. You've only been following me for 2-years. Either I'm a lunitic or I've been talking some sense all this time. So, you tell me...???...

    Naw...scratch that. I think I already know your opinion. "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down these walls." (And for the record, I was all for winning the Cold War. I'm just not too keen on tearing down this franchise just because you don't like one player. We saw how well that worked with getting rid of Ron Artest. Oh, he needed to go, no doubt. Just not so hastily. And you say my emotions are all caught up in the decision making process. )
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 06-07-2008 at 07:23 PM.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Long term question for you guys. Which position in your mind translates into more wins next season?

    For me addressing the pg position translates into more wins than say a pf or a center.

    Long term I believe this will hinder the Pacers from building into a contender team because less opportunity will be there for next year to draft a quality player.

    I am a little torn by this because I really hope that Pacers can get back to being a 500 and better team. However who cares if we just get blown out of the playoffs for the next decade.

    The biggest factor in all this is JO. Does Larry trade him for needs or does he trade him for salary cap reasons?

    I hope to God he trades him for needs rather than relying on the free agent market.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    JT-

    Have to disagree. If hanging on to J.O. for another 12-18 months
    means getting $1000 for him vs getting $500 now, it's worth the
    wait. I don't care how J.O. feels about it, what's better for him
    or his career or wether he even plays at all during that 12-18
    months.

    Put yourself in ownership's shoes. You owe JO 44mil for the next 2 years, so why pay it to someone that you can't count on to play let alone "earn it." If you keep him for 12 months, 18 months, or 2 years, you have paid him between 21 to 44 mil. For what? This is the whole crux of why you trade him. His contributions vs what you receive in return for him. If your GM does any prudent type of trading, you will come out on the positive end.

    In business and this is a business, just ask JO, you have to look at what things are costing you compared to what value you get in return for it. As we know if JO is traded this off season, the Pacers have to take back 21 mil in salary. Why not take that back in an expiring, youngins, role playing veteran, or a draft pick. A combination of any or all to make your team better, and save you MILLIONS. Take back what will help your pocketbook, as ownership, and build a team the fans like sooner than later in order to sell tickets. That translate into income to you as ownership instead of paying JO's salary, and crossing your fingers JO will be healthy and will play a major part in the team the next 12-24 months.

    By getting an expiring, that translate into income you won't be paying out next year in salary as ownership. As you know, that's referred to as salary savings. The quickest way for businesses to save money is reduce payroll and fringe benefits. The savings is immediate. That savings gives the Pacers some flexibility. They could now even use their MLE next year on a player! One that could be counted on playing every game and making a consistant contribution to the team. That's a novel idea.

    As ownership, you need to build a team with players who can contribute in helping make the Pacers winners. Winning with a likeable team will sell tickets, and generate more income for you. JO & Tinman need to go to erase the brawl image and connection in order for this to happen.

    Holding on to JO is going to cost you in the long run. Now is the time to trade JO in order to get the most. Some will say hold on to him until next year or the end of the trade deadline, but if you do "who is paying JO's salary", you or them? It's easy for others to spend your money, especially on someone they want you to roll the dice on as a player with a history of injury and never being a player you can count on to earn his salary. Holding on to JO is just going to cost ownership money, and not improve the team as quickly. This costs ownership revenue. That same revenue ownership has lost out on receiving the last number of years. JMOAA

  7. #107

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    come in heathy as a horse running the Kentucy Derby, and see what he can do for atleast one more season

    But hey, what do I know. You've only been following me for 2-years. Either I'm a lunitic or I've been talking some sense all this time. So, you tell me...???...

    We saw how well that worked with getting rid of Ron Artest.

    How did Big Brown do today? Sorta reminded me of your hero, injured or didn't come thru when counted on. Sorry, I just couldn't resist your horse race referrence.

    You remind me of some Artest supporters with their crush on him. Someone who just couldn't/can't let go. Is that being a lunitic? I don't know. You are persistant even though I feel you are misguided in your belief. JO, IMO, will never be able to be counted on in the future, except to be all for JO. He never waivers in that regard.

    TPTB knew Artest had to go. They just got itchy from the pressure of fans. Other teams sensed the Pacers were in a fire sale, and wouldn't give value. Bird got the player he so long coveted for what that was worth. B/c of it, the Pacers ended up in the end with losing their 07 pick, got 2 albatross contracts, and that zircon of the trade Ike. I will say this, if Artest hadn't been such an emotional headcase, the Pacers would have been better off keeping Artest than JO. Artest was the better all around player and at 1/3 the money. JMOAA

  8. #108

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    JT,

    There you go again slicin' and dicin' and twisting my words around. I love it.

    If you disagree with me, fine. Unlike you, I'm not going to make this a personal issue. I'm content with letting things play out between now and the end of next season. How 'bout you?

  9. #109
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,747

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    As we know if JO is traded this off season, the Pacers have to take back 21 mil in salary. Why not take that back in an expiring, youngins, role playing veteran, or a draft pick. A combination of any or all to make your team better, and save you MILLIONS.
    I don't think anybody's arguing that the Pacers shouldn't move JO under any circumstances. If the right deal came along, we'd certainly do it. But JO+11 for Wally+Snow isn't the right deal.

    Do you guys actually disagree with each other, or are you just fighting for fun?
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  10. #110

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't think anybody's arguing that the Pacers shouldn't move JO under any circumstances. If the right deal came along, we'd certainly do it. But JO+11 for Wally+Snow isn't the right deal.

    Do you guys actually disagree with each other, or are you just fighting for fun?
    I'm not fighting with anybody. JT's just trying to be a hard***. I think he gets a kick out of rubbing people the wrong way (or at least trying to get under my and ojor's skin), but I'm not giving him the satisfaction...not stooping to his level no matter how much he twists my words around to meet his ends. I think I've stated my case and I'll leave it at that. If he wishes to continue this discourse in this manner...well, like my father use to say, "You can't argue by yourself without looking like a complete fool."

    'Nuff Said.

  11. #111
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)


  12. #112

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Long term question for you guys. Which position in your mind translates into more wins next season?

    For me addressing the pg position translates into more wins than say a pf or a center.
    Well, considering that the offense starts at the Point...

    But I'd never discount the importance of defense both along the perimeter nor the interior. All are equally important. You can try to put up a multitude of points and hope to outscore your opponent or you can do alot of scoring and get defensive stops at key moments throughout the game. As they say, "Good offense keeps you in the game, but good defenses often times wins ball games."

  13. #113
    Member dagrubbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    28
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    My opinion is that we will trade JO (and not involve our pick) and we will get back something like the #19 Varajoe and wally. As long as we move JO for a 1st round pick this year then we are in good shape. I wish we would move diogu and daniels for mike miller and lowry as well that way we could just focus on bigs in the draft.

  14. #114
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    180

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by dagrubbs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    My opinion is that we will trade JO (and not involve our pick) and we will get back something like the #19 Varajoe and wally. As long as we move JO for a 1st round pick this year then we are in good shape. I wish we would move diogu and daniels for mike miller and lowry as well that way we could just focus on bigs in the draft.
    Again-

    What is the point in doing this ??

    Varejo has no future here so you won't resign him after next season anyway.........same for Wally.........

    So you trade Jo for Roy Hibbert ???

    Why not just hand him to San Antonio for Brent Barry or Big Shot Bob ??

    For months now, the league has been up in arms over Memphis trading Gasol for nothing.........compared to this deal ...........that one looks like the Lakers gave away the farm.

    Either get back a legit PG or post player who fits long term (like Al Jefferson did with Minny)..........or hold onto him for two more years.

    The ONLY way I do a JO deal for an expiring contract and a meaningless pick is if I can move Murphy and Tins in the same trade (which won't happen).

    And even then, as I've said before.......all you are likely to do with loads of cap space is overpay a different stiff that we'll be trying to dump 18 mths later. No big time FA is coming to Indy to battle the Bucks for 11th in the EC.

  15. #115

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Plax80 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    Varejo has no future here so you won't resign him after next season anyway

    Either get back a legit PG or post player who fits long term (like Al Jefferson did with Minny)..........or hold onto him for two more years.


    And even then, as I've said before.......all you are likely to do with loads of cap space is overpay a different stiff that we'll be trying to dump 18 mths later. No big time FA is coming to Indy to battle the Bucks for 11th in the EC.

    Would you mind explaining why Varejo would have no future here, if the Pacers did this trade, which I'm against doing? What's wrong with having another player of the Foster mold? Other than having had some health issues and not being adept at hitting bunnies, Foster is a very popular player, and brings it every night. That's more than can be said for some others. I personally like a yeoman type player that brings intangibles to the table. I see Varejo being the same type player, but younger. That's why I asked why you think Varejo would have no future here.

    I agree with the 1st part of your statement, but totally disagree with the 2nd part of it. Why does ownership want to pay 44mil for a player known for his injuries year after year? Why pay 44 mil for non-productivity just so in 2 years his contract will be off the books? Do you really think he's going to earn that 44mil? He's not earned his salary for the last number of years, why all of a sudden now?

    I guess having had businesses I just don't see where posters think paying JO 44mil in the hopes he will regain his allstar status is prudent business. I'd like to see the Vegas odds on that happening! Nor do I understand paying for non-productivity when that same salary can be put into a player/players who can/will produce for the Pacers.

    Then there is this factor of JO wanting to play for a championship team, and not a rebuilding team. Lets not forget there is no love lost between JO and Bird either. When your heart and interest isn't in your job or a relationship, one tends not to give it their all, and I expect a player being paid 44mil giving it their all. Ownership should expect it, no demand it, they are the ones paying the salary not the fans who aren't buying the tickets.

    Money talks, JO stayed didn't he?! Saying no quality FA's will come to Indiana for the money is wrong. JMOAA
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 06-08-2008 at 07:10 AM.

  16. #116
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    180

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Would you mind explaining why Varejo would have no future here, if the Pacers did this trade, which I'm against doing? What's wrong with having another player of the Foster mold? Other than having had some health issues and not being adept at hitting bunnies, Foster is a very popular player, and brings it every night. That's more than can be said for some others. I personally like a yeoman type player that brings intangibles to the table. I see Varejo being the same type player, but younger. That's why I asked why you think Varejo would have no future here.

    I agree with the 1st part of your statement, but totally disagree with the 2nd part of it. Why does ownership want to pay 44mil for a player known for his injuries year after year? Why pay 44 mil for non-productivity just so in 2 years his contract will be off the books? Do you really think he's going to earn that 44mil? He's not earned his salary for the last number of years, why all of a sudden now?

    I guess having had businesses I just don't see where posters think paying JO 44mil in the hopes he will regain his allstar status is prudent business. I'd like to see the Vegas odds on that happening! Nor do I understand paying for non-productivity when that same salary can be put into a player/players who can/will produce for the Pacers.

    Then there is this factor of JO wanting to play for a championship team, and not a rebuilding team. Lets not forget there is no love lost between JO and Bird either. When your heart and interest isn't in your job or a relationship, one tends not to give it their all, and I expect a player being paid 44mil giving it their all. Ownership should expect it, no demand it, they are the ones paying the salary not the fans who aren't buying the tickets.

    Money talks, JO stayed didn't he?! Saying no quality FA's will come to Indiana for the money is wrong. JMOAA
    1. Varejo has a David harrison type reputation with Cleveland and I don't see us investing $30-40mm on a long term deal to a defensive version of David Harrison.

    2. Its a hard angle to argue.........players earning their NBA salary.........year after year. Is JO worth $22mm ??? No. But for that matter neither is DWade.......Dirk......JKidd.........or about 50 other players. Only KG and Kobe and maybe Duncan and LeBron actually "earned" that kind of salary this season..............the rest are stealing money. You can't worry about that stuff when you own an NBA team. You trade a guy for what he's worth ........not for what he produced last season.

    3. Who cares what JO wants. He could have opted out and played for whomever.............he chose not to..........trade him to the Knicks or Griz.

    4. Its the summer of 2009 and because of deft manuevering by Larry Legend; we have $26mm available under the cap to go after a big time player. We won 34 games in 08-09 and finished 11th in the EC. We own the 9th pick in the draft. Carlos Boozer, Elton Brand and Shawn Marion are all availble..........please tell me why you think any would sign with us when there will be many other teams offering max deals as well.

    Bottomline is none of the three will truly even consider us as possibilities unless there is no one else out there to give them similiar money.

  17. #117

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Plax80 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    1. Varejo has a David harrison type reputation with Cleveland and I don't see us investing $30-40mm on a long term deal to a defensive version of David Harrison.

    2. Its a hard angle to argue.........players earning their NBA salary.........year after year. Is JO worth $22mm ??? No. But for that matter neither is DWade.......Dirk......JKidd.........or about 50 other players. Only KG and Kobe and maybe Duncan and LeBron actually "earned" that kind of salary this season..............the rest are stealing money. You can't worry about that stuff when you own an NBA team. You trade a guy for what he's worth ........not for what he produced last season.

    3. Who cares what JO wants. He could have opted out and played for whomever.............he chose not to..........trade him to the Knicks or Griz.

    4. Its the summer of 2009 and because of deft manuevering by Larry Legend; we have $26mm available under the cap to go after a big time player. We won 34 games in 08-09 and finished 11th in the EC. We own the 9th pick in the draft. Carlos Boozer, Elton Brand and Shawn Marion are all availble..........please tell me why you think any would sign with us when there will be many other teams offering max deals as well.

    Bottomline is none of the three will truly even consider us as possibilities unless there is no one else out there to give them similiar money.
    I hadn't heard Andy was a problem. I'd be interested in reading about it. Do you have any sources that I could read?

    My point about JO earning his salary was due to his constant injuries.


    There is no doubt in my mind FA's will come to Indiana if the money is right. There are different tier FA, and I agree that the 3 you mentioned probably wouldn't. BUT the next tier down would/will.

    P/S You almost lost me on the "deft manuvering of Bird" comment. I truly feel Bird has the opportunity to put his mark on this franchise by the trade deadline. I'm not as optimistic of his ability as some, but I sure hope he can in a positive fashion for the sake of the franchise's future. I'd far rather eat crow than have to say I told you "tweety" couldn't.

  18. #118
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    I haven't heard of AV having anything near Harrison-like issues.

    I'd strongly consider JO for #19, AV, and Wally. JO is undependable and even when he plays he's not 100% these days. The final deal-maker for me is that neither of the incoming players have a contract longer than JO's. I'd probably do that trade.

  19. #119
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,747

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I haven't heard of AV having anything near Harrison-like issues.

    I'd strongly consider JO for #19, AV, and Wally.
    I'd consider Tinsley a necessary part of any JO trade.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  20. #120
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    180

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    The reports I heard about centered on how unhappy he was about his restricted contract staus and the fact that Cleveland wouldn't either sign him long term or allow another team the opportunity to sign him away from them for a reasonable long term deal. Once he finally ended the stalemate, he pouted much of the year and played no where near the playoff level from 07. Thus they mostly relegated him to mop up duty and traded for Ben Wallace (absorbing a ton of money in the process) to fill the role that had largely been Varejo's the previous season.

    So if LeBron couldn't get him to buy into the team first concept.......how can we expect Granger to get him there. And even if he does for one season, what will you do with him next offseason........give him a Troy Murphy contract ??

    I'm not so enamored with JO that I expect a KG type return for him......but I'm not going for less than what Memphis got for Gasol either.

    Phx and Dallas both proved that desperate people sometimes do desperate things only a few months ago. I know JO has more value than either Shaq or JKidd. If he comes back close to healthy than a team looking for a final piece may give you a young cornerstone player in return for him.

    Taking adeal that has no such player coming back to us is worthless. So you save his salary in 2010.....does that mean we could see a third return of Al harrington ?? Or maybe Jack 1's second stint. Or who knows.......lets dream big.........Eddy Curry might agree to come talk to us.

    I'm not trying to be acomplete arse, but I just don't see the point in giving away one of your best and marketable players. The Simon's shouldn't be in dire financial straits.

    To me a team like Golden State who is on the cusp of being a contender could package either Wright or Bierdens with Foyle's contract and maybe Al's .......that is far more enticing to me than a Varejo and Chase Buddinger trade.

  21. #121
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'd consider Tinsley a necessary part of any JO trade.
    That's asking too much of the other team.

  22. #122
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,747

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That's asking too much of the other team.
    We don't NEED to move Jermaine. I'd be happy to do it, but giving him away for Sideshow and Wally doesn't make us any better. If we're moving JO without including Tinsley, it had better be an amazing deal.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  23. #123
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    I think it would make us better. Any more, JO is around for what, 2/3rd's of the time at best? And during that time, he's truly healthy for a dozen or so games?

    A healthy Verajao and a healthy Wally and another 1st rounder will make us better. It'll be like having another Jeff up front, and I think Wally is an upgrade over Kareem.

    Would it be better than getting the 2004 JO? No. But he's gone. What it IS better than, is the team that didn't have JO much last year.

  24. #124

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Plax80 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The reports I heard about centered on how unhappy he was about his restricted contract staus and the fact that Cleveland wouldn't either sign him long term or allow another team the opportunity to sign him away from them for a reasonable long term deal. Once he finally ended the stalemate, he pouted much of the year and played no where near the playoff level from 07. Thus they mostly relegated him to mop up duty and traded for Ben Wallace (absorbing a ton of money in the process) to fill the role that had largely been Varejo's the previous season.

    So if LeBron couldn't get him to buy into the team first concept.......how can we expect Granger to get him there. And even if he does for one season, what will you do with him next offseason........give him a Troy Murphy contract ??

    I'm not so enamored with JO that I expect a KG type return for him......but I'm not going for less than what Memphis got for Gasol either.

    Phx and Dallas both proved that desperate people sometimes do desperate things only a few months ago. I know JO has more value than either Shaq or JKidd. If he comes back close to healthy than a team looking for a final piece may give you a young cornerstone player in return for him.

    Taking adeal that has no such player coming back to us is worthless. So you save his salary in 2010.....does that mean we could see a third return of Al harrington ?? Or maybe Jack 1's second stint. Or who knows.......lets dream big.........Eddy Curry might agree to come talk to us.

    I'm not trying to be acomplete arse, but I just don't see the point in giving away one of your best and marketable players. The Simon's shouldn't be in dire financial straits.

    To me a team like Golden State who is on the cusp of being a contender could package either Wright or Bierdens with Foyle's contract and maybe Al's .......that is far more enticing to me than a Varejo and Chase Buddinger trade.

    I'm not going to stick up for Andy, but the Cavs put him in an awkward position. I could see where there could be hurt feelings and no warm feelings. A new team, a different setting could be a total different situation. Apparently, things were fine the previous years he was in Cleveland. I don't see the comparison to Harrison.

    I just don't see why posters feel ownership have deep pockets and should be willing to absorb 44 mil worth of salary for a player who doesn't play a good % of the time or to the ability he once did.

    I finally got my answer to my question of how many games JO has missed. On another board, it was stated 126 games over 5 years. My gosh folks at his salary that's 20-25 mil dollars for doing nothing but sitting on a bench in a suit looking pretty! That's downright ridiculously sickening! Again, why should the Simons pay JO ANOTHER 44 mil? There comes a time you cut your losses in business and move on. This is the time. Get the best deal available and get rid of him. Who cares about his 09-10 trade value or his 09-10 expiring contract next year. If he's kept, it costs the Simons 21mil! Just for a better deal or an expiring contract?

    Sorry, but GS bought out Adonal's contract and he signed/played played for the Magic last season.

  25. #125
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,635

    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    If you keep him for 12 months, 18 months, or 2 years, you have paid him between 21 to 44 mil. For what? This is the whole crux of why you trade him. His contributions vs what you receive in return for him. If your GM does any prudent type of trading, you will come out on the positive end.
    Luckily for us the Pacers are the only ones who understand this concept. Maybe you shouldn't post it out in public where other teams can see it even.


    Like the Pacers are getting back players that will contribute more than JO will. Please. Right now is some group of fans hoping suckers like the Pacers will take their dopes so they can get JO.

    You pay JO now to INCREASE HIS VALUE. It's an investment. You want to get some good chunks to rebuild with, send out his expiring to a contender that's falling off the pace in JO's final year. You get a quality vet and maybe a pick so they can get cap space.

    As the FINAL move in a Pacers rebuild, JO being traded for that last vet piece makes a lot more sense than getting a 20th pick and some longer contracts that cost you somewhere close to that SAME $44m with modest to low output.

Similar Threads

  1. The PD NBA Best Pick Left in the Draft 4
    By Hicks in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-30-2008, 08:33 PM
  2. The PD NBA Best Pick Left in the Draft 2
    By Hicks in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-24-2008, 09:42 PM
  3. The PD NBA Best Pick Left in the Draft
    By Hicks in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-23-2008, 10:23 AM
  4. The PD NBA Draft
    By Jose Slaughter in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-21-2008, 04:55 PM
  5. Top Draft Prospects
    By Will Galen in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-18-2008, 11:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •