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Thread: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I think including the #11 is silly, but in general, no, I don't find it ridiculous. Maybe they're finally convinced (as some have been for years) that JO will never truly stay healthy again, and would rather dump him now than later. The guys we get back are expiring anyway, right? At least this way it's some guys to look at, see if they have a place here for less money the following year if they fit.

    If not, who cares. The only hangup to me is trading our pick to do it, that's excessive.

    As for Wally being white, let it go. Christ's sake.
    I find it outrageous. Dealing our franchise player (injured or not, he is) and a lottery pick for expiring contracts is insane. It's not like we'll lure any superstars to Indy, anyway, so what's the point?

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    I call BS. I thought we traded our pick last season. So, unless it's no longer part of the newest CBA, I didn't think a team is allowed to trade its pick 2 years in a row.

    So, whatever the trade might be, it doesn't involve our #11 pick.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I call BS. I thought we traded our pick last season. So, unless it's no longer part of the newest CBA, I didn't think a team is allowed to trade its pick 2 years in a row.

    So, whatever the trade might be, it doesn't involve our #11 pick.
    That's what I used to think, but I was later corrected (apparently) that you can do that (trade the 2008 pick), you just can't trade two picks at the SAME TIME that are back to back. Meaning we could trade our 2008 pick, but we couldn't simultaneously trade our 2009 pick.

    But even if we do trade our 2008 pick now, when next year rolls around we can still trade our 2009 pick separately.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    The longer I think about this, I have to admit it's pretty stupid. Even without the #11 included. At least if Wally is the best part of the deal. Wally + #19 makes it a little better (if we keep #11), but even still......

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    The article's author has JO's price tag wrong; it's $42M and change. If he does get traded on or soon after draft-day, he goes to his new team for atleast 2 yrs since he's decided not to go on the open market.
    Well, it's actually about $44.4 mm, but the author was (correctly) assuming that either all or a significant portion of JO's salary for this year could not be avoided by Pacers at this point (they'd pay JO or the guys they got in a trade for JO), therefore, the $23.4mm he's owed in 2009-2010 would be the most the Pacers could save.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    I'd rather see a package where we somehow keep our #11 and get their #19 instead. I could pallate that rather than giving up JO+our #11 for Cleveland doo doo.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    if we trade away our first rounder and don't get another back, i will shoot someone.

    but if we could keep our pick and get theirs too, that would be great [even though it won't happen]. we could take a big guy with the 11 and maybe someone like ty lawson with the 19.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I call BS. I thought we traded our pick last season. So, unless it's no longer part of the newest CBA, I didn't think a team is allowed to trade its pick 2 years in a row.

    So, whatever the trade might be, it doesn't involve our #11 pick.

    Draft night is no longer a future pick so you could trade your #1 every year if you wanted. The rule is you can't trade 'future' picks two years in a row. The past makes no difference.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 06-05-2008 at 01:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Dude, we just cannot give JO away for nothing but cap space. Indiana is not a strong free agent draw, and will be even less of one with no talent on board.
    I agree this is true, but if they did (gag), it wouldn't be about cap space for free agents. It would be solely about saving money and getting financially healthier. Now, it could be a precursor to a sale, or it could just be cutting a bunch of salary to start all over...it's hard to tell, but I'm beginning to worry about them making decisions from a solely financial viewpoint. (Or, at least I would if this is the type of deal that they're seriously pursuing.)

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by indyman37 View Post
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    if we trade away our first rounder and don't get another back, i will shoot someone.
    Can I give you a list?

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    With JO's end of contract coming up I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him this year. Maybe he could play like someone who is playing for a contract - not with us but someone else.

    That said I have really gotten tired of virtually everything being handed to him. "This is JO's team now", playing him when it was obvious the team played better without him, "trade him for nothing". It's time he finally played for something and something that helps THIS team for a year.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by indyman37 View Post
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    if we trade away our first rounder and don't get another back, i will shoot someone.

    but if we could keep our pick and get theirs too, that would be great [even though it won't happen]. we could take a big guy with the 11 and maybe someone like ty lawson with the 19.
    Yeah, to even consider it on our end, they'd have to give us expirings and their #19 for JO.

    Anything less, would be uncivilized.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Can I give you a list?
    Oh man, how great would it be to hold a draft party and then trade away our draft pick?

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Oh man, how great would it be to hold a draft party and then trade away our draft pick?
    Seems to me that happened to some team a couple years ago...probably not, but it'd be intriguing.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Oh man, how great would it be to hold a draft party and then trade away our draft pick?
    if they were to do that, i think the worst possible place i could be is there.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Don't fret guys, we'd still have #41!

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Don't fret guys, we'd still have #41!
    The year we drafted Reggie, I was at the draft party. While I certainly never expected Reggie to turn out as well as he did, I thought 11 was way too high for Alford, so I wasn't one of the many who were booing vociferously at MSA.

    Anyway, Dick Vitale had been a sometimes color commentator for the P's back then, and he was on the dais as one of the hosts of the activity.

    After the Reggie pick, he started promising that there was a huge treat for Pacer fans that would be announced at the start of the second round. A trade that would make us all happy.

    Then, they announced that we'd acquired Scott Skiles, and the place, full of a lot of IU/Purdue fans who largely reviled Skiles, erupted in even more booing.

    I'm pretty sure that's as close as we could get to projecting what would happen if they dealt the pick for something the crowd didn't like.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    It makes no sense to trade JO for expirings when he'll be a huge expiring himself in a year.

    Thank you for bringing sanity back to the discussion.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Something puzzles me, though. Why are some of you suggesting that the Pacers trade down to get the #19 pick? I thought the idea was to get as high up in the draft you could to have the best chance at getting the best talent out there or at least have the better odds of getting the guy you want. Am I missing something?

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    Something puzzles me, though. Why are some of you suggesting that the Pacers trade down to get the #19 pick? I thought the idea was to get as high up in the draft you could to have the best chance at getting the best talent out there or at least have the better odds of getting the guy you want. Am I missing something?
    It's about making moves for the sake of making moves.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket View Post
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    Don't we HAVE to trade JO (or some other combination of large contracts like Murphy, Dunleavy, or Tinsley) THIS year for contracts that expire in the summer of '09 when Granger's new contract kicks in? Otherwise, we won't be able to afford to keep Danny.

    Daniels + Ike expires in time. That frees up close to 10 million. Granger is not a concern unless we trade one of these two.

    This deal is retarded. I would not trade with cleveland for anything less than JO for big Z, Varejo, and the #19... as proposed before... and I didn't even really like that deal.

    Is that too much? well who cares. If JO can't even fetch that than we are WAY better off seeing what he can do this season. He could come back playing really well and could be worth a good trade at the deadline... or just let him expire if we want cap room. If he has negative trade value, and we have to GIVE UP our pick... that is insane. There is no reason to do that. Just eat it for one more year and let him expire.

    The other deal idea has grown on me though... if we could turn varejo into another pick, maybe send him to utah for the #23. Than we would have #11, #19, #23, and #41. I like it.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 06-05-2008 at 02:12 PM.
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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    Something puzzles me, though. Why are some of you suggesting that the Pacers trade down to get the #19 pick? I thought the idea was to get as high up in the draft you could to have the best chance at getting the best talent out there or at least have the better odds of getting the guy you want. Am I missing something?

    Well, it depends on what you think of picks 6 through 20. I happen to think there's not much, if any, difference in those players. If you can get a good player or something else of decent value and still be in a position to get a guy you think is just as good later, then you do it.

    For example, if, after the workouts, you decide that Lawson and CDR are at the top of your list, you might look to move back a few picks if you think you can get them later, thus getting the guy you want, plus something else. Otherwise, you can just take that guy at 11, though there will be the added pressure of people thinking you're reaching.

    To me, you look to get the most value you can out of the pick, and that could be through (a) using it to pick the best player your can, (b) using with other assets to go higher in the draft, or (c) using it to move back in the draft and address other concerns as well.

    I don't know what the right answer will be, but it's looking to me that the guy we take at 11 isn't going to be all that much more impressive than the guy we might be able to get at, say, 19.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    It's about making moves for the sake of making moves.
    While that may be true in some cases, it's really a gross oversimplification. At this point, we should be open to trying to move up, move back, move out, or stay put, and not determine which way we go until we figure out which one will put us in the best shape when the summer's over.

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    I just don't see it happening. so I wouldn't worry about it. The important part is the pacers are looking to trade JO

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    Default Re: Draft Express - JO to Cavs Speculation (among other things)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    Daniels + Ike expires in time. That frees up close to 10 million. Granger is not a concern unless we trade one of these two.
    All of our other big contracts will be increasing by roughly $1M each that year, too, plus you have to factor in the contracts for any other players acquired over the next year (since this would leave only 7 players on the roster with contracts through 09/10). Given that, the $10M gained from the Daniels/Ike contracts coming off the books would be just enough to cover the increase of these contracts, and not enough to cover Granger's new contract. If we don't re-sign Foster, that would help, but surely there would be some other player(s) acquired that will fill that salary amount.

    Therefore, we need to drop the contract of either JO, Murphy, Tinsley or Dunleavy before the 09/10 season if we want to retain Granger.
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