i'm officially on the westbrook bandwagon. i like what i'm reading.
i'm officially on the westbrook bandwagon. i like what i'm reading.
I completely agree. Westbrook is exactly what we need and we could turn the corner as a team with a player of his abilities. I like Augustin but there's no question that defense is our biggest weakness. In either case, we have to take a point guard without a doubt.
I'm really torn on the idea of drafting Westbrook. He could be a steal or a complete dud.
1) He does not have the size to be a great defender at the 2 guard, IMO. While he will be able to bother some guys with his quickness, others will abuse him with thier strength advatage. Seems to me that if he is going to be worth the 11th pick, he has got to be able to play PG. He does intrigue me as a PG prospect, and could be a Rajon Rondo type lead guard. But I haven't seen him enough to feel comfortable with us taking him.
2) He has not played enough point guard to be able to tell if he can play it at the NBA level. PG is one position where there is a huge leap from NCAA to NBA. The draft camps and workouts will go along way to help make the determination, but it's still a complete guessing game.
3) If he can't play either position effectively, you cannot have him on the floor. Therefor, his defensive abilities are a complete waste. An example of this is Greg Buckner, who is a tenacious defender. But he does not have the size or skillset to play either position well enough to be a major contributor. And whatever team he is on can't play him down the stretch of important games because of his glaring weaknesses, when his defensive abilities are needed most.
I agree that if he can play the point effectively, he fills some glaring weaknesses we have very well. I hope he's there so we have the choice. But if he looks like he needs a lot of work to be able to play the point, I would rather us take Deandre Jordan and put the time in development into him.
Wow. I think Westbrook can be a good player, but I certainly don't see him being a star. Not even close.
It's a sign of a bad draft when everyone is talking about trading down.
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Hey, if he drops to 11 I'll be thrilled. Basically somebody has to drop. I just hope it's not Augustin.
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Nothing else needs to be said
I've stuck up for Westbrook other than the non-PG thing, but at the same time I don't see it as a HR pick. I'd be far more thrilled with Love and his game smarts. It's just that I do see the athletic ability in Westbrook and think that part is legit.
However I think he might have the impact of an Augman perhaps, though it's Weaver who reminds me most of SA in terms of body type and playing style.
Not necessarily at 11, but the guys I most want to be Pacers after watching them play at least a couple of games, in order:
Love, Mayo, Rush, Chalmers, Arthur, Weaver, Lee, Westbrook, Walker
Rose and Beas I didn't even bother naming, and I almost left Mayo off too. EJ and Lopez I'd be fine with at 11 but I wouldn't trade up to go get them. There are some other potentially talented guys out there but most of them didn't grab me as someone I really want on the team (or don't want for that matter, more like meh).
Some guys on my list I like more specifically because I think the Pacers could get them with their 2nd pick or trading back into round 1/up from their 2nd pick.
I see Westbrook, at worst, as finding his niche being a defensive stopper. Hopefully he develops some kind of consistent jumper and becomes a great perimeter player on offense as well.
westbrook has the physical abilities to be a legit all-star. few pg's in the league would have his size and athletic ability. the minute he's drafted, he's already an above average defender at the point position. he literally shut down guys like mayo and bayless all season long. all he needs to do is develop pg instincts and a jump shot. everything i have read says he is a gym rat, which tells me that that development is possible.
augustin is a nice player, but he's not a starting pg on a contending team. he's a rich man's jameer nelson. pg's like arenas, billups, williams, etc would eat him for lunch.
i'm willing to take the risk on westbrook. at worst he's a defensive stopper off the bench.
No small feat.
Nobody's worried about his defense at the 1 spot, or even his ability to score on opposing PGs. We need more than that from a point man, though. You don't learn to run a team by working out in a gym.
Not saying he can't (and I'd be glad to draft him) but it's not a sure thing.
Last edited by Anthem; 06-02-2008 at 10:31 PM.
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I'd be fairly happy if we could get Westbrook.
If the Pacers only took one player in the draft, I'd prefer it to be Westbrook. He has star potential because he is still learning the game. He will be what Antonio Daniels should have been.
I don't view Tinsley as having PG instincts. He's more of a two read PG, he either finds the assist or forces up a shot. Those aren't PG instincts. Those are stat instincts. I know you didn't bring up Tinsley, but he's the person whose job we're implicitly discussing.
Westbrook averaged 4.3 assists per game, leading UCLA, on a team which ran a pretty disciplined motion offense. That usually implies, outside of post feeds into Love, not set situation where assists come from. That implies to me a great understanding of when and where the pass must be delivered.
I don't worry about his instincts. I would worry about handling pressure at variable pick up points. That said, I'd be more than happy with Westbrook at #11.
Tinsley is an A-B type PG. In other words, he will make the play which leads to an assist, but he only stubbornly makes the play which leads to the pass which leads to the assist. In other words, he would suck at hockey. I'd take my chances on a strong defender, showing him the ropes, and molding him in a system which very much relies on running a great deal of offense through the wings.
The ball gets too bogged down in Tinsley's hands, and I rather doubt Westbrook would have problems making ball screen reads, which to me is about the only thing Tinsley does well.
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Jim (aka Bloom)-
I have nothing to add other than to say this. The more often you
post here at PD, the better.
Augustin at #6? Really?
And I still say we need to trade into a late first and nab Chalmers, even if we take Augustin/Westbrook at #11. In fact, especially if we take Westbrook, because he's more of a SG anyway.
"Derek Fisher will prove to be a much better NBA head coach than Steve Kerr."
"The Houston Texans will forever regret it if they do not take Johnny Manziel with the No. 1 overall pick. He will haunt them."
"You bet I'd take Tebow late in games over ARodg."
"Manti Te'o: the next Ray Lewis."
What I hope he's done is looked at players he might get at 6 and decided which players are worth taking with that and what situation means trading the pick. Personally, I'd be OK with Randolph or Mayo there but if we get lower on my list I'd say he could trade it for a later first.
I think the same holds true for Indy. If there isn't a PG worth taking at 11, trade down to 19-22 and take a SG. Most of the guys I have pegged to go from 12-20 - the best athletes - are SF's. Trade down and take CDR or someone else. Or take a shot at someone like Jordan but you better be patient.And I still say we need to trade into a late first and nab Chalmers, even if we take Augustin/Westbrook at #11. In fact, especially if we take Westbrook, because he's more of a SG anyway.
The poster formerly known as Rimfire
the pacers really need to try to steal that #13 from portland...foster for pryz + #13?
EDIT: or maybe some sort of deal involving jo and that #13 pick being the key...i'd be less inclined to want granger gone if we could somehow acquire a solid pick without giving him up...
Last edited by croz24; 06-02-2008 at 11:36 PM.
Lopez is slipping a lot. He was projected to go around 3 a few months ago. I hope he keeps dropping, I would rather have him than a PG
You know i'm not a fan of most of the bigs in this draft but if we take one we might as take that French big. Trade for a later pick maybe.
I never seen him play but there are just so many question marks surronding most these bigs this french big man sounds as good as any of em.
You want highlights try this instead of 'brook dunking on a guy that should have had the charge taken.
Love, taking it out of the net on a make, 2 hand chest pass instant fastbreak. You don't need to run to be part of a running game...
BTW, he did this EVERY game I saw him play.
Everytime I see Russell Westbrook -I see Fred Jones -- sorry that doesn't thrill me at all.
One more, Weaver pulls a Prince and runs down Westbrook. Weaver plays a little wing point and is a monster defender, and can be had in the late first or maybe even early 2nd. He's also got a really solid family situation and work ethic that puts him in line with Augustin somewhat. Wingspan is probably an issue, as is consistent offense, but he does give you a lot of what you want from Westbrook for a lot cheaper.
Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 06-03-2008 at 01:13 AM.
I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.