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Thread: Moving Jamaal

  1. #1
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Moving Jamaal

    This is the key to the offseason to me. I expect us to get somebody solid but unspectacular at #11. I wouldn't be surprised to see us trade back into the late first round, but that's a long-term move. I don't really think moving Jermaine is going to be a great option for us, and I don't see us making a huge splash in the free agent market.

    But if we could move Jamaal, I'd consider it a successful offseason. The question is, how do we accomplish this?

    His contract is pretty bad, and the two teams who usually don't care about that (Dallas and NY) just got the guys who are wise to him.

    Other than Granger and Dunleavy, we don't have a ton of positive-value players. In my opinion, here they are:

    Quis (contract)
    Ike (potential)
    Shawne (potential)
    Hulk (potential)
    Foster (immediate impact)

    None of those guys have a ton of value, but at least adding them to a package makes it a more attractive package instead of a less attractive one.

    Is there anybody in the league that would take a package of these guys and give us back something that would help us? You're basically looking for a 11-14mil package without a terrible contract length.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    FREE LANCE MillerTime's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    trade Tinsley, Daniels and Dunleavy for Nocioni and Hinrich

  3. #3
    Member Speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Whats Jeffs contract, time wise? If you are ever going to move him, its now.

    I'm thinking of a situation like happened with Steve Francis on a lesser level, trade Jamaal to a team that will buy him out almost immediately, but I don't know if Jeff or any of those players are enough to unload JT due to his extremely negative situation.

    Where is the guy who used to want to save everyone, he was an old point guard, acutally had his son in last years draft. He was a coach for awhile in Texas I want to say, crap, its on the tip of my tongue.... anyway, if he's working somewhere on somebodies staff, maybe you can convince him that he can save Jamaal. The guy has a bad mustache, man its kiling me, I can't think of what his name is.

  4. #4
    Member LoneGranger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    I also think moving Jamaal is in the best long-term interests of the franchise. I thought Atlanta was a good option until the Bibby trade, but other than that I can't think of a decent trade partner. I'm not too sure Donnie wouldn't go for it at the right price - D'Antoni would need someone to run the point in his fast-paced system (I mean, other than Nate Robinson...) What about Charlotte - LB is looking for a veteran floor general? Does Larry Brown know better? And I don't know how long the holy trinity of Smush Parker, Brevin Knight and Dan Dickau will last in Clipperland, but I doubt they'd want to take on more dead weight.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Where is the guy who used to want to save everyone, he was an old point guard, acutally had his son in last years draft. He was a coach for awhile in Texas I want to say, crap, its on the tip of my tongue.... anyway, if he's working somewhere on somebodies staff, maybe you can convince him that he can save Jamaal. The guy has a bad mustache, man its kiling me, I can't think of what his name is.
    I think you're talking about John Lucas, but I have no idea where he is now.
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  6. #6
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Y'all are gonna see it this year......
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

  7. #7
    Member LoneGranger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    Y'all are gonna see it this year......
    JamaalStar?

  8. #8
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Moving Jamaal
    Um, Mayflower?

    I thought this was a poll.

  9. #9
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Whats Jeffs contract, time wise? If you are ever going to move him, its now.

    I'm thinking of a situation like happened with Steve Francis on a lesser level, trade Jamaal to a team that will buy him out almost immediately, but I don't know if Jeff or any of those players are enough to unload JT due to his extremely negative situation.

    Where is the guy who used to want to save everyone, he was an old point guard, acutally had his son in last years draft. He was a coach for awhile in Texas I want to say, crap, its on the tip of my tongue.... anyway, if he's working somewhere on somebodies staff, maybe you can convince him that he can save Jamaal. The guy has a bad mustache, man its kiling me, I can't think of what his name is.
    Foster has one year left at $5.5mm.

    As far as trading Tinsley to a team that would buy him out immediately, that strikes me as a non-starter because such a team doesn't exist. I can't imagine why anybody would buy out a guy who would then sit as a hit against their cap for two more seasons following the current one.

    One of the reasons I was disappointed in Walsh going to NY was that it took two ugly contracts (Jeffries and James) out of the bidding for Droopy. I still think the most likely scenario is to find some other team that has an equally bad contract, but will look at JT without the baggage he has accumulated here and thinking the risk that he won't be able to play more than 40 games a year is still better odds than that turd that's currently sitting on the roster that can't play at all.

    As I mentioned: Jeffries and James immediately come to mind as filling that bill (bad contract, no contribution)

    Others could be:

    Atlanta - Claxton, but his contract is actually better than JT's
    Denver - Nene, I doubt he'll ever play much again, but people tend to be a little deluded when it comes to young bigs
    Kenyon Martin, where you'd have to package in one or more of the guys Anthem is talking about...and he's not quite a complete turd
    LA Clippers - Maybe Mobley or Tim Thomas, but they both have shorter contracts
    LA Lakers - Maybe Vlad Rad
    Bucks - Simmons or Gadzuric
    Minnesota - Jaric
    Phoenix - Diaw - I know this is touchy and they probably wouldn't do it, but he is owed an awful lot of money ($36 mil) for a rotation player
    Portland - Przybilla, but his contract isn't all that much worse than Fosters (which is/was actually pretty decent) and his production (at least on the glass) isn't bad
    Sacto - Kenny Thomas, but his contract is a year shorter
    Raps - Jason Kapono

    Man, this looks like it will be harder than I thought...

  10. #10
    Member Speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    I think you're talking about John Lucas, but I have no idea where he is now.
    YES!!! thank you!

    Someone find John Lucas, I'm sure he can convince a team to take a chance on him.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Buy him out and have Larry just focus on making the team better.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    YES!!! thank you!

    Someone find John Lucas, I'm sure he can convince a team to take a chance on him.
    Lucas worked for the Raptors this past season, im not sure they need a point guard even if they trade one, they got another one coming over to nba next season.

  13. #13
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    This is the key to the offseason to me. I expect us to get somebody solid but unspectacular at #11. I wouldn't be surprised to see us trade back into the late first round, but that's a long-term move. I don't really think moving Jermaine is going to be a great option for us, and I don't see us making a huge splash in the free agent market.

    But if we could move Jamaal, I'd consider it a successful offseason. The question is, how do we accomplish this?

    His contract is pretty bad, and the two teams who usually don't care about that (Dallas and NY) just got the guys who are wise to him.

    Other than Granger and Dunleavy, we don't have a ton of positive-value players. In my opinion, here they are:

    Quis (contract)
    Ike (potential)
    Shawne (potential)
    Hulk (potential)
    Foster (immediate impact)
    FYI Hulk's a free agent, so he would have to be used in a sign and trade. That's unlikely but could happen.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    I don't see why Walsh would not trade Jeffries for Tinsley. Tinsley at least gives you something when hes healthy, jeffries is just worthless. It would be a PR win for us.
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  15. #15
    Member Speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    FYI Hulk's a free agent, so he would have to be used in a sign and trade. That's unlikely but could happen.
    Does it matter that he's supposedly a "restricted" free agent?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    I have some hope that we can move Jamaal but I know that there are probably very few teams that have interest in him.

    Given his salary teams won't want im as a backup. His injury problems will scare off teams too.

    The few teams that come to my mind are possibly Miami, Orlando, Clippers, and Seattle. A lot of these teams are a little shaky though, I don't think any of them are rushing to the phone to call about Jamaal's avaliabilty right now.

    Miami might have interest if they draft Michael Beasley. Maybe a deal involing Tinsley for Blount or Tinsley, Daniels for Blount, Banks could work.

    Orlando is rumored to be unhappy with Jameer Nelson. If a deal was made it would pretty much have to be a swap of the two unless a third team was involed. I don't have a problem with Jameer but his contract is pretty long and i'm not for sure he would be our point guard for the future. So maybe we are better off holding on to Jamaal insteado f swaping him for Nelson.

    The Clippers are probably the only team in the league with a big hole at point guard. I don't know their mindset, win now or re build, but Jamaal could be sent there for either Cuttino Mobley or Tim Thomas. I don't know how attractive the Pacers would be to either of these guys but it would get rid of Jamaal.

    I have doubts that Seattle would have any serious interest in Jamaal. If they did we could swap Jamaal for either Earl Watson or Luke Ridnour. I perfere Watson. But I have doubts the Sonics would do this. They will likely draft a guard (Bayless).

    New York might be brought up too. But would Walsh want to bring Tinsley and his injuries andh is contract to the Knicks? I have my doubts there.

    In my opinion these are about the only possible opitions the Pacers are likely to have. Most teams are set or already have a better situation and don't need Jamaal. I'm hoping something can get done but we'll see.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Question: If Tinsley isn't traded and stays on the Pacers' roster, what can they do to distance him from the rest of the team?

    I'm thinking of Tinsley the payroll deadweight as a separate problem from Mel-Mel the on-court Abuser. Obviously, solve the former problem and you've solved the second as well. But if they can't trade him in a way that helps the team (and the upshot of this thread leans that way), then they'll have to deal creatively with a player with a highly paid, long-term contract who is quite explicitly persona non grata. (That's O'Brien talking, not me.)

    What do other teams do in this situation? Can you say to them, "Just give us your address and we'll mail the check. But stay away from the fieldhouse?" Can you make them earn their contract by bagging groceries, passing out Thanskgiving turkeys, blogging on Pacers.com and reading Horton Hears a Who to school children?
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  18. #18
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Does it matter that he's supposedly a "restricted" free agent?
    In order for him to be "restricted", we'd have to make a qualifying offer by June 30: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#36

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Coon
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    In order to make their free agent a restricted free agent, a team must submit a qualifying offer to the player by June 30. The amount of the qualifying offer for players on rookie "scale" contracts is based on the player's draft position (see question number 41). The qualifying offer for all other players must be for 125% of the player's previous salary, or the player's minimum salary (see question number 11) plus $175,000, whichever is greater. The qualifying offer must be for one season. A player can elect to accept his qualifying offer (the qualifying offer must be accepted by March 1) and play the following season under its terms. This is sometimes done in order to become an unrestricted free agent the following summer (see question number 38).

    If the player is coming off the fourth year of his rookie scale contract, then in addition to a qualifying offer, his team can also submit a maximum qualifying offer. A maximum qualifying offer is for six seasons at the maximum salary with 10.5% annual raises. It can contain no options, ETOs or bonuses of any kind, and must be fully guaranteed. When a team submits a maximum qualifying offer (in essence "stepping up" with a maximum contract offer before the player even hits the market), it places a more stringent requirement on other teams' offer sheets (see below).
    In Harrison's case, the qualifying offer would be $2,601,474 for the first year, according to Shamsports.com.

    I can see us re-signing Harrison, but only at or around the minimum salary. We won't be (or, at least, shouldn't be) interested in him enough to risk getting put on the hook for $2.6mm next year. Therefore, the 'restricted' part of his free agency will likely never come to fruition.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Does it matter that he's supposedly a "restricted" free agent?
    Now that you mentioned it I think he could be restricted. I do know the Pacers didn't pick up his option.

  20. #20
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Question: If Tinsley isn't traded and stays on the Pacers' roster, what can they do to distance him from the rest of the team?

    I'm thinking of Tinsley the payroll deadweight as a separate problem from Mel-Mel the on-court Abuser. Obviously, solve the former problem and you've solved the second as well. But if they can't trade him in a way that helps the team (and the upshot of this thread leans that way), then they'll have to deal creatively with a player with a highly paid, long-term contract who is quite explicitly persona non grata. (That's O'Brien talking, not me.)

    What do other teams do in this situation? Can you say to them, "Just give us your address and we'll mail the check. But stay away from the fieldhouse?" Can you make them earn their contract by bagging groceries, passing out Thanskgiving turkeys, blogging on Pacers.com and reading Horton Hears a Who to school children?

    They can do the same thing they did with Artest: simply leave him inactive. It's not uncommon for players who are not active, or are injured, to be physically apart from the team: even players that were good teammates. I don't know if you recall back in the 94 or 95 season, LaSalle Thompson was parked on IR (prior to the active/inactive lists) for quite awhile, and he spent most of his time in California "rehabbing". And he was, by all accounts that I can recall, a "good" teammate.

    However, I don't think just parking Jamaal somewhere is going to be a good long-term solution. It won't (probably) reach the degree of discussion that the Artest situation did, but I'm sure it would be impossible to prevent his presence on the roster from being an ongoing distraction/irritation, regardless of his physical separation from the team.

    If we don't want him to be a part of the team (which I think most have decided), then we're going to need to take whatever nasty tasting medicine is necessary to get him off the roster.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by intridcold View Post
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    Buy him out and have Larry just focus on making the team better.
    That's the only real option. No teams want Tinsley, his contract, or his baggage.

    They might be able to get a couple of second round picks from a team under the cap which would be a major coop if that happened. Are there any teams under the cap this summer?
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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  22. #22
    Formerly QuickRelease NapTonius Monk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by intridcold View Post
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    Buy him out and have Larry just focus on making the team better.
    It's the only realistic solution. No one is going to take on Tinsley in a trade, unless the rest of the parts you give up are so enticing, the other team can't refuse. Unfortunately, it would probably be the result of getting your butt kicked in unequal trade value.

  23. #23
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    That's the only real option. No teams want Tinsley, his contract, or his baggage.

    They might be able to get a couple of second round picks from a team under the cap which would be a major coop if that happened. Are there any teams under the cap this summer?

    Maybe Atlanta, Memphis, and Charlotte, but everybody else looks to be over...(from Hoopshype, so look out for that grain of salt)

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    They can do the same thing they did with Artest: simply leave him inactive. It's not uncommon for players who are not active, or are injured, to be physically apart from the team: even players that were good teammates. I don't know if you recall back in the 94 or 95 season, LaSalle Thompson was parked on IR (prior to the active/inactive lists) for quite awhile, and he spent most of his time in California "rehabbing". And he was, by all accounts that I can recall, a "good" teammate.

    However, I don't think just parking Jamaal somewhere is going to be a good long-term solution. It won't (probably) reach the degree of discussion that the Artest situation did, but I'm sure it would be impossible to prevent his presence on the roster from being an ongoing distraction/irritation, regardless of his physical separation from the team.

    If we don't want him to be a part of the team (which I think most have decided), then we're going to need to take whatever nasty tasting medicine is necessary to get him off the roster.
    Unfortunately, Jamaal being inactive on the court doesn't equate to him being inactive in the news. As long as he is associated here, anything negative shines a negative light on the team. Some nightclub tussle; some midtown shootout; it all comes back to the TrailPacers. The only answer is to cut ties with him, and a buyout is probably the only realistic solution that doesn't require you taking back some ungodly contract in exchange.

  25. #25
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Moving Jamaal

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Unfortunately, Jamaal being inactive on the court doesn't equate to him being inactive in the news. As long as he is associated here, anything negative shines a negative light on the team. Some nightclub tussle; some midtown shootout; it all comes back to the TrailPacers. The only answer is to cut ties with him, and a buyout is probably the only realistic solution that doesn't require you taking back some ungodly contract in exchange.
    This is more or less what I was saying, though I'd probably lean towards taking back the ungodly contract rather than buying him out. I mean, even Jeffries and James have had decent years in the past, grossly overpaid though they are. Since we're already out the money, why not hold onto the sliver of hope that you might actually get some small amount of return out of the investment.

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