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Thread: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

  1. #1

    Default Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    The next of my series of potential draftees is Center Roy Hibbert, from Georgetown. Hibbert will almost surely be available at #11 when the Pacers select, and most likely will only become an Indiana Pacer if the team either acquires an extra pick in the later first round, or if the Pacers trade downward from #11.

    In my judgment, C Roy Hibbert is an extremely underrated player in this draft, and on this board. At 7'2 and 270 lbs, Hibbert would give us our first true legitimate center since Rik Smits. Like Smits, Hibbert will never be a dominant player, but he could be a very very valuable piece to a high quality basketball team.

    In many ways, the somewhat unique way he was used at Georgetown hurts his stock now, but in the long run will be good for his game in my opinion. Georgetown under John Thompson III runs the "Princeton" style of offense perfected by Pete Carril, and used in the NBA by the New Jersey Coach Kevin Frank, and at times by New Orleans and Houston. The Hoyas often used Hibbert at the high post area, rather than feeding the ball to Hibbert on the low block and letting him go to work. Because of this Hibbert has lower point productivity than you might expect out of a center worthy of being a first round pick, but he now will have a more well rounded game at the next level than most coming out of college.

    When on the rare occasions Hibbert got the ball in the low block, he is a productive (although bit mechanical) weapon. He has a nice ability to finish inside with either hand, and a particular nice right handed jump hook he can extend and shoot over people on the block. He also uses shot fakes very well for a player of his size, which is good because he lacks the explosiveness to lift off the ground and sky over people. Because of his ability to shot fake, he will be good at the next level against some post defenders at drawing fouls and getting them sent to the bench.

    No one can tell this quite yet, but because he has very advanced passing skills and vision he learned by playing in the "Princeton" scheme, he will be very good at either playing the high post in the NBA game, or at passing out of double teams on the low block....which is a skill most bigs have to learn to do on the NBA level on the run....Hibbert will likely be one of the better passing centers in the league right out of the gate.

    If drafted by Indiana, Hibbert immediately becomes the best screener on the Pacer roster by far. For some teams this wouldn't be a big factor, but for us this would be a huge plus for a franchise that doesnt have a single good screen setter on the payroll. Hibbert excels at setting all varieties of screens, from ball screens to downscreens for cutters coming from the baseline. He would be our best player since Dale Davis at setting "pin down" screens for shooters coming to the wing areas.

    When you watch the Hoyas play on film, while I don't think they used Hibbert nearly enough inside, and they didn't get him nearly enough shots.....you can also see a team that played with a team concept and was very well taught at little things. Hibbert does a good job of talking while playing, communicating with his teammates during possessions both offensively and defensively. The ability to communicate while playing is a HIGHLY VALUABLE SKILL, and one that is very difficult to learn for most players....Hibbert does that very well already. He also plays with a wide base offensively, which means he presents a good target to throw the ball too, making it easier for passers to find him in traffic. Playing with a wide base is also a main reason why his screens are so important, because players have to take a wider route to get around him, giving his teammates an extra second/step to get shots off.

    In doing research for this article I also discovered a fact that I didn't know, in that Hibbert was a very young college entrant, and is still just 21 years old. Since big guys often develop later anyway, this somewhat encourages me that Hibbert still has quite a bit of potential upside to his game, where as before I assumed he might be near completely developed. Although he has a full 4 years of college experience, he is only a year or 18 months or so older than many other bigs who played for only one season in college.

    Defensively, Hibbert is solid, fundamentally sound, and unspectacular. He is strong enough to not get pushed around inside, and long enough to really bother most players he is guarding by contesting their shots with a long hand up. He also for us would be our second best shot blocker besides Jermaine O'Neal, and would severely lessen the defensive issues we have when Jermaine is out of the lineup, which as we know happens all too often.

    Like most big men, Hibbert gets in foul trouble too often. Since he will be a part of a rotation of bigs at the NBA level, and will only be asked to play roughly 60%-70% of the time, I don't see this as an extreme negative. I also think in the more physical NBA game that some of the touch fouls Hibbert got in college won't be called at this level. In the low block area, Hibbert doesnt have many foul issues, but when asked to go to the perimeter his lack of quickness is a major problem for him.

    Hibbert will be exposed in the NBA by teams who involve him in having to defend the screen/roll, or screen/pop. He lacks the lateral quickness to defend the dribble by a more athletic player outside of the paint. You aren't going to be able to ask Hibbert to be out trapping a ballscreen I don't think, although I do think with better conditioning and experience his athleticism will improve somewhat.

    He also will be taken out of his element by teams who choose to play small. Hibbert lacks the offensive dominance to play in a superfast running game against smaller opponents, so he will be useless against a team like Golden State, for instance. However, in a more traditional style, Hibbert will be an above average player in my opinion.

    I wish he had a more aggressive, dominating, aggressive approach to rebounding. Hibbert may lack the super intense nature that will make him as dominant as his skills would otherwise allow him to. In theory, Hibbert should be a strong rebounder and outlet passer, but too often on tape he isn't that at all. Now, some of the issue is that Georgetwon often used him offensively away from the basket, putting him out of position for put back opportunities. But defensively as a rebounder, you don't see Hibbert always aggressivley "hunting" for the basketball like I prefer. He is more of an old school coaching product, being taught to "blockout" and hold position, then react to the ball coming off the rim. This is how he has been taught to play, so it is hard to criticize him for it, but doing it this way hurts him because he lacks the explosiveness and quick twitch athleticism to be the first to the ball doing it this way at the NBA level. It is easy for us to imagine a player like Jeff Foster, for instance, out rebounding Hibbert because he is quicker and more aggressive.

    Whether or not you think coaching can improve this one glaring weakness for Hibbert at the next level probably determines whether you like him as an overall player. Of course, some coaches (and some of you) still prefer this style of rebounding anyway, so seeing him "find/pivot/blockout/react" as a rebounding style rather than see him watch the ball and read its flight before attacking it aggressively won't annoy you as much as it does me.

    I personally am of the opinion that this CAN be coached up, so for the other reasons mentioned above I probably like Hibbert more than most of you and other experts do. I would probably prefer Hibbert and his more guaranteed productivity than I would the risk/reward scenarios of other highly rated bigs in this draft, although I certainly can see the arguments for going another direction. I still see Roy Hibbert having a long and productive career in the NBA, and being on productive winning teams as a role player and productive starter in most cases. Hibert has a very low liklihood of being a bust, and I think he is one of the safest picks in the draft.

    Keeping with my tradition of comparing players, who will Hibbert be like? He is more refined than Dale Davis, not as fast or talented as Robert Parish, not as slow and lead footed as Ilgauskus, not as aggressive or tough as Alonzo Mourning. So who do I compare him to?

    Being as smart and well coached as he is, I am going to go with another intelligent but unathletic big man, who had a career similar to what I envison Hibbert being like in the league: Bill Cartwright.

    Here is hoping that Hibbert doesnt have the injury history that "Medical Bill" Cartwright did in his younger days.


    As always, the above is just my opinion.

    Tbird
    Last edited by thunderbird1245; 05-26-2008 at 12:48 PM.

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  3. #2
    Ain't Happening BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Generally, a guy his size will have a solid spot on an NBA roster. Yes, he is low risk and I thought he stepped up pretty well against Oden. IMO, his size would be at least a nice thing to have available against the bigger centers in the league. If we trade down he's not a bad option.

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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Hibbert is an OK pick at around #25 give or take a few spots, but you don't draft him anywhere near the lottery.

    For one thing, he's a poor rebounder for his size and position. His reaction time and mobility to get to balls just aren't great.

    The main thing about him is his lack of athleticism and stamina. He tired way too easily in the games I watched him in. In the NBA he's facing games that are 20% longer (48 mins compared to 40 mins), he's facing more games per season and he'll be playing against faster opponents.

    If you watch that game against Oden again, he did indeed play pretty well but his weaknesses were on display every bit as much as his strengths. I thought Georgetown wasted Hibbert's energy by having him go back and forth between posting up and setting picks up high, but it showed that he really tired easily.

    He was huffing and puffing after this. He got tired and of course big guys who get tired start reaching and get in foul trouble, which is exactly what happened.

    Unless you get some other really good incentive to trade down, I wouldn't see the point in taking a much less talented guy like Hibbert. If you're at #11 and can get a much more talented guy, then just stay at #11. Don't over think yourself.

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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    I really don't like his game in the NBA. I like his IQ, but his reaction to the play was slightly above average in college. What would it be in the NBA?

    I think he would be a nice thrid big man off the bench. A player who comes in plays solid defense and picks up some fouls.

  6. #5
    Banned Jonathan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    My only questions about Roy Hibbert are as follows:
    His speed
    Does he fit Jim O'brein System?

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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    I just picked Marreese Speights for us in a mock draft on InsideHoops, I'd be interested in what thunderbird has to say about him.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Of the all around big men Hibbert is the more proven "all around player." I really don't like his game bc of the reasons stated by others but I would rather have someone intelligent enough to play JOB's sytsem than some big who has potential to play in his system.

    I would take Hibbert over Thabeet, McGee, Koufos and Speights. Jordans upside is hard to judge. So I'll hold my opinion on him.

    Defensively I like Robin Lopez which I think Hibbert and Robin compliment JO if we are to keep him. If we don't keep him I like Robin's defense over anything offensively Hibbert could give to the pacers line up.

    We need to defiantly address the center position through this draft. I hope LB can either trade down or get multiple picks in order to fill the void at center.

  9. #8

    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by tdubb03 View Post
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    I just picked Marreese Speights for us in a mock draft on InsideHoops, I'd be interested in what thunderbird has to say about him.
    How do you view his defense? To me Speights only compounds the problem with mental toughness of the pacers.

    The Pacers have already proven they can score on teams but they haven't shown that they can be mentally tough enough to play defense at a high level. Speights would be a good player to have if we could afford his shoddy defense.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Excellent post, as usual T'Bird.

    I was wondering what you thought of Hibbert, as I think the Pacers will try to draft a big man. With Harrison likely gone, Foster and JO getting older, plus what O'B said in his last radio broadcast about a top-level point defender being unavailable at draft#11, it would appear we would go for a big rather than an elite defender (or Augustin). It just makes sense.

    Keep the posts coming. They're great reading.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    good read, especially for those that dont have a chance to watch college basketball...

    hope you do DeAndre Jordan next....

  12. #11
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Boourns to Hibbert.

    Boourns, I say.


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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    I wouldn't touch Hibbert at #11. He's a nice backup center at best.

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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJ2TheJ View Post
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    Hibbert is the black Jason Collier.

    He's ready to take the title of 'Most Likely to Die of a Heart Attack on the Court" away from Eddy Curry.

    Can we delete these blatant pushes to get banned.

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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Sassan wonders why he's not welcome here, and is offended we have the "nerve" to ban him after we give him a leash he didn't deserve in the first place. It's sad.

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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Sassan wonders why he's not welcome here, and is offended we have the "nerve" to ban him after we give him a leash he didn't deserve in the first place. It's sad.
    If Sassan really wanted to discuss the Pacers he would quit getting himself banned. *It's just asking for trouble*

    As for Roy Hibbert I won't be as upset if the Pacers take him after reading T-Birds enlightning post.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 05-27-2008 at 10:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Sorry, Will, but I am playing it safe.

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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Sassan wonders why he's not welcome here, and is offended we have the "nerve" to ban him after we give him a leash he didn't deserve in the first place. It's sad.

    Wait... I thought that was the poster formerly known as Naptown Seth? (Before we got the good Seth here).

    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Probably the same person.

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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Sorry, Will, but I am playing it safe.
    That's fine I understand, I was just making an observation, not trying to start something.

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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Probably the same person.
    As in like, Sass and N Seth (bad one) and Kofi... all the same?





    The more recent incarnations have such a different posting style... that's real dedication.
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  22. #21
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by intridcold View Post
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    I really don't like his game in the NBA. I like his IQ, but his reaction to the play was slightly above average in college. What would it be in the NBA?
    I agree. This is one where I don't agree with T'bird completely. Or rather I don't agree with the MAGNITUDE he sees. The overall picture yes, but the rating of his good qualities is too high IMO.

    T'bird is right, G'town often went away from him and he was asked to play away from the bucket a lot. He does have a solid core of fundamentals, but then this is exactly where my issue comes in. How does a 7 foot guy with overall good size and all these fundamentals not dominate in college, not find himself in the middle of more plays, not take over big games down the stretch?

    He is way too mechanical, way too passive, and perhaps too slow all around for the NBA. He is clearly smarter than Thabeet, yet he doesn't really stand out against him. Where Thabeet is flawed by being one dimensional, Hibbert is flawed by being a bland jack of all trades. And in comparison to another big that works with fundamentals, Kevin Love, Hibbert just doesn't seem in the same park. Love is not doing it with speed or size obviously, so it falls to desire, a playmaker instinct or both.

    I don't think he needs to be coached up, I think he needs to be fired up. Take him in the 20's? I guess, that does seem to be where he could fall. But Bill Cartwright with a pick that low? Seems doubtful to me, that would be quite a steal indeed. Maybe Tank Thompson in Greg Drieling's body instead.


    I must admit though that I haven't watched him play for some time and would like to review him a bit more. Hopefully I'll have some free time at the end of the week as I try to piece together some footage on all these guys.




    Look you bunch of losers, I AM THE BAD SETH. Get offended already. You're all smelly (that's not banable is it?).
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    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 05-27-2008 at 11:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by tdubb03 View Post
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    I just picked Marreese Speights for us in a mock draft on InsideHoops, I'd be interested in what thunderbird has to say about him.
    I'm interested in his assessment on Kosta Koufos. IMO, of all the top Centers/PFs to enter this year's draft, I think Koufos is by far the most well rounded of all of them.

  24. #23
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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Look you bunch of losers, I AM THE BAD SETH. Get offended already. You're all smelly (that's not banable is it?).
    Most Offensive 2009...but not banned (which disqualifies me).
    Did I mention you are a bunch of moose loving hats (ie, Canadians)?
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    I love you man!

  25. #24

    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Hibbert is not worth taking at 11.

    He is too slow for the NBA. At 11 I would like to see someone who I think has a chance to be a starter in this league and Roy is not that.

    He might be passive and no he didn't dominate but i'm not too worried about that because it just means he isn't a star. It doesn't mean he can't be a solid player.

    My concern with Hibbert is defense, rebounding, and durability. I think he wil struggle to defend, he is a poor rebounder for a big, and I would worry about him lasting 82 games a year.

    With that said I do like how Hibbert played in the Princeton offense and had to play away from the bucket. I think this will serve him well in the NBA. If we were to trade down into the late teens or 20s he might be ok but to be honest at that point I would rather take Robin Lopez instead of Hibbert.

  26. #25
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    Default Re: Tbird draft analysis: Roy Hibbert

    Thanks for the detailed analysis Tbird.

    I learn something new everytime I read one of your posts.

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