View Poll Results: Which scenario is a more appealing trade for JO?

Voters
54. You may not vote on this poll
  • Trade JO to Chicago for Hinrich + Hughes

    16 29.63%
  • Trade JO to Cleveland for Z + Varejo + 19

    22 40.74%
  • Niether. Lets wait and see.

    16 29.63%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 50

Thread: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

  1. #1
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    29
    Posts
    2,253

    Default Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Its the offseason now, so you knew this kind of stuff was coming. For the sake of argument lets just assume these two offers are on the table, I know some people will be like "oh JO has no trade value, bla bla". I feel the two scenarios are at least in the "realm" of possibility.

    My thought process is, would you rather trade for a big and draft a PG, or trade for a PG and draft a big.

    Hienrich + Speights? (+ hughes)

    or

    BIG Z + Augustin (+varejo and #19)


    My problem with the cleveland trade idea is that Z is old, varejo has attitude problems (and does the same thing as foster), and the 19th pick just doesen;t seem worth much to me.

    I like Chicago because Hinrich is better than any PG we can get at 11, and he is known for his defense. Hughes contract is the same length as JO's and Hughes also gives us a slasher and capable defender at the 2 spot.

    I also really like speights in this draft and am leaning toward going big.

    thoughts?
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  2. #2

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    I dislike Hughes, personally and as a player (yes, I've known him) but I'd still take that deal over the other one.

    -- Steve --
    Last edited by Pacersfan46; 05-25-2008 at 04:47 PM.

  3. #3
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Age
    34
    Posts
    12,158

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Hinrich and Hughes has to be a joke. And I actually sorta like Hinrich.

    We're 23rd in FG percentage even under JO'B's system and people really would consider adding $22 million worth of guards that can barely crack 40% from the floor?

  4. #4
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    29
    Posts
    2,253

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Im getting my *** kicked here.

    Hinrich slumped last year but prior to that he was hitting 40% from outside, 16 points and 6 assists. but the D is what appeals to me.

    Keep in mind contract wise that Hinrich's deal is front loaded, and Hughe's expires the same time JO's would have anyway.

    I think you guys underestimate how much better we could be defensively.

    Ill ask the experts. If we are getting hosed on that chicago trade do we have the wiggle room to ask for a future 1st?
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 05-25-2008 at 05:43 PM.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  5. #5
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    29
    Posts
    2,253

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Let me put it this way.

    Is Z going to be here past his contract? That guy has gotta be nearing retirement. Than how is that any different than taking on hughes, who could bring some things to the table for us? Is Varejo gonna be around? He wants a bigger contract remember? I see problems there...

    Would you trade JO straight up for the 19th pick? Or would you go after an established starting PG in this leauge?
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    45

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    I like the Cavs deal.

    Z's days are certainly numbered, but he can be a good stop-gap. We could probably pick up Hibbert at #19 who's of very similar size and style to Ilgauskas. He could learn behind Z and eventually replace him as starter in a season or three.

    Varejao is like getting a 25 year old Jeff Foster, which makes the 31 year old Jeff Foster expendable. With his rebounding and defense, not to mention friendly contract, he could probably get a mid-to-late 1st rounder, which could be used on someone like Tywon Lawson or Mario Chalmers.

    Seems like a good rebuilding move to me. Probably too good to be true.

  7. #7
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Age
    34
    Posts
    12,158

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    The idea of moving of JO is to rid us of his cap-crushing paycheck.

    Getting something decent back is secondary.

    And taking on new garbage (Larry Hughes) should be unacceptable.

    Sure Hinrich's contract is backloaded, but he's still no better than the 15th best PG in this league. A guy like DJ (who I don't even like) could be just as good as him for literally 1/5 of the price.

    We just can't keep overpaying for mid-level talent. That's how we got into this mess. We already have $17 million tied up in the undeniably mediocrity that is Troy Murphy and Marquis Daniels. We don't need to make that number $39 million.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    JayRedd, usually I agree with you, but here I don't.

    Trading JO and his injury history combined with a less than stellar season last year means we will HAVE to take back someone's garbage if we hope to move him.

    And Hughes is garbage, but he's garbage that comes much cheaper than JO. Which could be easier to move if something (amazingly) comes along. We get a healthy PG and allow ourselves the freedom to rid ourselves of Tinsley without having to play Eddie Gill (lol) as our starter. We'll also have some guards who at least play some defense.

    The only bad visions I have from this scenario, is Larry Hughes thinking he's Antione Walker in Boston a few years ago. However, I think even that would be mitigated by the lack of playing time available for him.

    -- Steve --

  9. #9
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,384

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Z would fill the C position nicely for at least the next couple years. IMO he would be a good match with Foster on the floor. Foster Jr. will be a nice addition. The #19 could get us either CDR or Chalmers. It would be a dream to get that deal, and that's why it's not likely.

    Hinrich and Hughes is a more likely scenario for JO where Chicago drafts Rose. IMO, Chicago could come out smelling like a Rose if JO can play.

    Edit: I don't like the Chicago deal nearly as much.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 05-25-2008 at 06:36 PM.

  10. #10
    Member esabyrn333's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Rapid City, South Dakota
    Age
    37
    Posts
    697

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    I just don't see why everyone likes the Clevland deal. Last year we needed low post D. JO supplies that better than Z or V. Our other sore spot was the fact we had NO PG and really didn't have a shooting guard that could take it to the hole. Hinrich is a solid PG that would do great in our system. Hughes would do fine here also not to mention he is easier to trade at the deadline than JO. Foster Jr. game may be alot similar but his attitude nothing like Jeff's

    I would do the Chicago trade for sure. With this trade I would probably still go PG in the draft. Westbrook would have time to grow behind Kirk or if we go DJ I think that the to styles would contrast each other nicely.

    I say pass on Cleavland. I really believe if this trade goes down by Feb. we will be roasting Bird for making the move. To many other teams are trying to move there picks for us to make this latteral move.

  11. #11
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    29
    Posts
    2,253

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersfan46 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    JayRedd, usually I agree with you, but here I don't.

    Trading JO and his injury history combined with a less than stellar season last year means we will HAVE to take back someone's garbage if we hope to move him.

    And Hughes is garbage, but he's garbage that comes much cheaper than JO. Which could be easier to move if something (amazingly) comes along. We get a healthy PG and allow ourselves the freedom to rid ourselves of Tinsley without having to play Eddie Gill (lol) as our starter. We'll also have some guards who at least play some defense.

    The only bad visions I have from this scenario, is Larry Hughes thinking he's Antione Walker in Boston a few years ago. However, I think even that would be mitigated by the lack of playing time available for him.

    -- Steve --
    People complaining about hughes forget he is only signed for two more seasons. So after next year he is a 12 million dollar expiring contract. This allows you to trade for a better player, perhaps if combined with a young up and comer (shawne williams, perhaps?). Sure, you could do the same thing with Z, but the fact is I would rather have hinrich than the 19th pick.

    People are down on chicago, and they had a bad year for sure, but one year ago people were picking them to win the east with Hinrich running the point. I think the guy will bounce back if he gets in the right situation.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 05-25-2008 at 07:25 PM.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  12. #12
    Member jeffg-body's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Anderson, IN
    Posts
    3,507
    Mood

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    I like the Chicago one better slightly because I like Hinrich and think he could do better in a JOB system. Larry Hughes has the ugly contract and his attitude can be questioned but he can get to the hoop pretty effectively.

    With the Cleveland trade I don't like adding a second Foster unless we are already expecting that he gets traded. Z is an aging giant, but he could be good for the locker room and as a mentor to a young big. The best part of that deal to me is the 19th pick.

  13. #13
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    29
    Posts
    2,253

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Sidenote: Does anyone think Utah would give up the 23rd pick for foster. I would totally do that if Lopez was still on the board. They have two small expiring contracts in collins and hart.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    4,630

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    If Lopez is still there at 23 why wouldn't the Jazz take him instead of trading him for an aging Foster?

    To answer your question.... nope

  15. #15
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,171

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    I would actually do either trade. I really like the idea of Hinrich as our PG.

    Don't really care for hughes, would prefer Gooden if that was possible

    The main reason I went for the Bulls selection is b/c though I think Augustin will be good at #11, I would prefer having Hinrich, and taking a chance on a PF/C at #11

  16. #16
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,395

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    I'm not sure I would rather take either deal over just riding JO's contract out another season and then having a big expiring to deal.

    But if I had to choose one of these, I'd take the Cavs deal. I think Augustin has a good shot at being better than Hinrich, and I have no interest at all in Hughes. I was campaigning for the Cavs to get rid of him; why would I want him playing for a team I actually give a crap about?

  17. #17
    woman without a team
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,055

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not sure I would rather take either deal over just riding JO's contract out another season and then having a big expiring to deal.

    But if I had to choose one of these, I'd take the Cavs deal. I think Augustin has a good shot at being better than Hinrich, and I have no interest at all in Hughes. I was campaigning for the Cavs to get rid of him; why would I want him playing for a team I actually give a crap about?
    We all know that you really want Noah. Come on, it's way past time to admit it.


  18. #18

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Not sure I quite get the fascination with aquiring
    Vara-howeveryouspellit from CLE as the 'next
    Jeff Foster'. Doesn't O'B's system ideally require a
    PF who can shoot the ball with some range ? If
    Williams sticks around, isn't he likely eventually
    headed for that spot ?

    I love Foster as much as the next Pacer fan. The
    guy is unique in the NBA and works his butt off.
    But in O'B's system, his weakness, which Var...
    shares, is magnified.

    Now, if folks are alluding to Vara... playing C, that's
    another story. But I'm not sure that makes much sense.

    As for the two trades ? Neither.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    maybe we can trade the 19th pick for portland's 13th,

    19th + quis's contract/Digou for 13th pick ?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    How does anyone think an over-the-top center and a younger Jeff Foster is better than Hinrich and Hughes's two year contract. I don't get it, a young top 10 PG is a premium, what are people thinking when they say Cleveland has a better offer.

  21. #21
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    29
    Posts
    2,253

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If Lopez is still there at 23 why wouldn't the Jazz take him instead of trading him for an aging Foster?

    To answer your question.... nope
    probably true. I know they had interest in foster and might not want to have to wait too long on a rookie, but their core players are still relatively young. Maybe a team that REALLY has a short window, Dallas perhaps? I would love to snag Robin Lopez if there is anyway possible. I would gladly throw in diogu if we got some expiring money coming back our way.

    New Bigs: Speights and Lopez
    New PG: Hinrich

    That would be my ideal offseason... If we also found someone dumb enough to give us an expiring contract for Tinsley.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  22. #22

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Well it would suck to trade big for small but if we want to get something for Jermaine, before his knees completely go, then we will have to take it.

    Now maybe the Cavs would be willing to give us a couple bigs. But Z puts us in the playoffs for a season or two and then he retires or is not good enough to play. And I just have a bad feeling that AV would just walk as soon as he could for more money. The 19th pick ehh not that great although possibly a solid prospect there.

    With Chicago we get a good guard in Kirk and Hughes will expire in two more years. Kirk has a lot of good years left in him. So I think I take that deal.

  23. #23
    streets ahead
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    DC
    Age
    30
    Posts
    5,754

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Hinrich and Hughes has to be a joke. And I actually sorta like Hinrich.

    We're 23rd in FG percentage even under JO'B's system and people really would consider adding $22 million worth of guards that can barely crack 40% from the floor?
    bingo

    if we were to get that Cavs offer for JO i think we'd seriously have to consider. the hughes, hinrich (as much as i think kirk might be the exact PG to run JOBs offense) the inclusion of hughes makes it remarkably unpalatable. if it were gooden and hinrich then it'd be easier to consider.

    if we did the cleveland deal -- i'd draft RLopez with #19. why not load up on 3 defensive big men than can't score? besides it'd be kinda like having a living "evolution of crazy big men" chart



    just think of how many tshirts of that could be sold... that's good azz marketing.
    This is the darkest timeline.

  24. #24
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nirvana
    Posts
    7,006

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    bingo

    if we were to get that Cavs offer for JO i think we'd seriously have to consider. the hughes, hinrich (as much as i think kirk might be the exact PG to run JOBs offense) the inclusion of hughes makes it remarkably unpalatable. if it were gooden and hinrich then it'd be easier to consider.

    if we did the cleveland deal -- i'd draft RLopez with #19. why not load up on 3 defensive big men than can't score? besides it'd be kinda like having a living "evolution of crazy big men" chart



    just think of how many tshirts of that could be sold... that's good azz marketing.
    You've hit the nail on the head for me with this point. Hughes is garbage IMO regardless of his short contract. Hinrich is an average NBA PG at best IMO. However, he's more consistent and a better option than anything we have.

    To swing me over to any Hinrich deal, I'd want a different 2nd player factored in somehow. Specifically I'd want a big. We're woefully thin there to begin with and we would be giving up JO.

    EDIT: I'd want a big back with at least sme experience b/c I think we still have to take a PG in the draft even though acquiring Hinrich. Plus, any big we might pull from the draft won't be able to have a lot of short term impact.
    Last edited by D-BONE; 05-26-2008 at 07:49 AM.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

  25. #25
    Member deekay85's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    28
    Posts
    105

    Default Re: Chicago vs. Cleveland - Trade Scenarios

    I like the Z, lill Foster and 19 trade. Hughes and Hinrich disappointed a lot in recent years. Hughes could be a great defender, but his shooting numbers are bad.
    Z could fill the center spot as already mentioned. Flopajao is a hustler and he gives you rebounding on both ends. If we get this trade on the draft day plus augustin or westrbook or someone else, it would be awesome.

Similar Threads

  1. RC to Chicago?
    By D23 in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-25-2008, 12:39 AM
  2. 03/22/2008 Guess The Score - Pacers at Chicago
    By RoboDoug in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 03-23-2008, 06:32 PM
  3. 02/27/2008 Guess The Score - Pacers vs. Chicago
    By RoboDoug in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 02-27-2008, 10:01 PM
  4. The Chicago Trade that didn't happen
    By indygeezer in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 02-11-2008, 01:32 PM
  5. 01/23/2008 Guess The Score - Pacers at Chicago
    By RoboDoug in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 01-23-2008, 10:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •