Been much debate on this forum about it.
If both players are still avaliable who do you want?
I expect to be in the minority here, but I don't think PG's and leaders are typically invented...they are born.
No doubt Westbrook's ceiling is higher, but I want to see some experience at PG. Unless someone can distinguish what Westbrook would bring versus Quis, I would stick with Augustin...
Westbrook is tempting because of his defense, but he seems less likely to be a starter than Augustin down the road because he's not a PG but is the size of one. At least Augustin seems capable of being a respectable, if unspectacular, starting PG down the road.
I voted other because I think either would help the Pacers. Since we need both a big and a point, I think Bird and company will take who they think is best and then try to trade for what they didn't get.
my god, NEITHER please...this augustin or westbrook talk is becoming very annoying and really pains me as a pacers fan...
Last edited by croz24; 05-22-2008 at 12:56 AM.
We should be looking to move up in the draft. Besides, if we should keep the 11th there should be enough decent bigs to get at 11
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Neither of these players are going to excel at the NBA level. They will both be career backups. The temptation for Bird to draft another 6'7 guy who can play multiple positions (Brandon Rush) will prove too tempting.
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I think the big man options at 11 are better than the guard options, I voted neither.
I would trade for a point (chicago) then draft a big (Love)
I think Westbrook has the potential to be a Bruce Bowen type at worst, which is sorely needed on any team.
I think Augustin would make a difference now on this team that lacks a starting caliber point guard.
Westbrook has that very very high ceiling and seems to be willing to work as well. You have to be patient with him, but in 5 years from now it could be Westbrook is a potential all defense 2nd teamer and Augustin is a nominal starting point guard.
I understand the opposite side where Augustin could be a very good starting point guard and Westbrook is Freddie Jones annd though I don't think you should reach on potential only at 11 and for this team.
I think you keep the future in mind and say Westbrook could be a key cog in a contending team, potentially. So I picked Westbrook, I teetered on picking other and saying Love.
If its any conselation, I don't think 2 of the 3 will be there and Augustin is probably the pick, but its early in the process.
I would fine with either...I think Augustin is a purer point guard and more likely to be an NBA starter, but I think Westbrook could be a really good pro.
I think both could contribute next year.
How long has it been since the fastest man on the floor was in a Pacer uniform?
And I won't be here to see the day
It all dries up and blows away
I'd hang around just to see
But they never had much use for me
In Levelland. (James McMurtry)
Augustin. Westbrook is more versatile but he isn't a real good SG or a real good PG - he's sort of a morph between the two and typically those aren't as successful in the NBA as players who are a "pure" one or the other.
Augustin is a pure PG.
That said, I think the Pacers should find a way to trade either up to the top 5 or down to about 20. I'm not sold on either of these guys. The top 5 are the monster talents while I think you can get someone at around 20 who'll help you as much as picking at 11.
A repeat of stuff I've already said.
1) This team is not "one PG away". This is a rebuild with plenty of holes to patch.
2) DJ doesn't appear to be much of a step up from Diener to me. Calls his own number too much and he's not a great defender.
3) Westbrook is not a PG solution. That's not why I take him. He's a defensive SG that will be forced to drive more than spot up. You have a lanky SF who likes to spot up so you don't really need your SG to be the same. Let Westbrook be the off-the-dribble threat and the break out on a steal threat. Let Danny be the bomber. Then go fix the PG, PF, C and contract issues that are still on the board.
Other than much better hops, quickness, speed, defense and nose for the ball, not much.Unless someone can distinguish what Westbrook would bring versus Quis,
BTW, I don't dislike DJ or Quis. And Kofi spent months ticked off that I wasn't lapping up W'brook as a PG solution. But I've seen these guys play enough to know that W'Brook isn't just flukey, he's got insane physical talent and does apply it in a scrappy jack-of-all-trades way. The Pacers can certainly use a bit of that, even if its nowhere near solving all their problems or even a good chunk of them.
Don't expect this pick to be the new star and it shouldn't be a problem. Barring Bease-Rose falling to 11.
Travis Best? Mike Williams? Dudley Bradley? Not sure if that was true on a regular basis in any of those cases even.How long has it been since the fastest man on the floor was in a Pacer uniform?
Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 05-22-2008 at 11:20 AM.
Westbrook reminds me too much of Antonio Daniels and Keyon Dooling. I'm not too high on Augustin either. He'll be a Travis Best-type: too good to be a backup but not quite good enough to start. But the thought of Diener playing 40 mins a night next year while Tins nurses another random injury makes me slightly nauseous.
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I put Westbrook and other. If I had to choose between the 2, then I'd go with Westbrook. I think he could compliment Dunleavy well in our starting lineup.
I put other because I'd rather see us trade up or trade down or even take a big rather than either of those guards.
I'm starting to think I'd rather see us take Love than either of these PG's.
I'd rather trade down into the 20's and see what kind of guard we could scoop up there.
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Oh, I think we'd take Love easy, but he'd have to fall to us first.
And I've gotten to the point where I just don't believe these mock drafts. We'd trade down into the mid-20s and Rush and CDR would have been taken 15-20.
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I went with Westbrook. His upside is just too high to pass up. Chad Ford compared him to Rajon Rondo, but Westbrook is bigger, stronger, and a better shooter than Rondo. Westbrook has 20 ppg, 6 apg, 4 rpg potential to go along with some top-tier defense. That's too good to pass up. Of course other teams realize how good Westbrook is, so there's no way he's still there at #11, but we can dream, can't we?
Last edited by Jared Jammer; 05-22-2008 at 12:24 PM.
I hope we just choose the best talent available and then hit the trade market if necessary.
IMO, who the Pacers draft will depend greatly on three primary factors:
1) who Bird/O'Brien views as the core players. (We'll get to that in a moment);
2) what position they feel is in need of an upgrade; and,
3) whether they feel a desperate need to upgrade said position now or if they believe they can afford to wait a year or 2 for the draftee to develop.
Of course, there is a forth option if you will:
4) picking the best players available @ #11 and trading him to get the more experienced player(s) you want.
Now, let's talk about each of the above factors.
1. Both Bird and coach O'Brien agree that Granger, Dunleavy and JO make up the core players. (For Bird's assessment of the core players, see the question from the linked article herein that inquires about the nucleus of the team right above JO's picture; for Jim O'Brien's perspective, listen to his last radio show; link provided below.)
Key reserves: Diener, Graham (recently signed new contract w/the Pacers), Shawn Williams and Jeff Foster
Looking at this list of seven players, the one position that cannot easily be changed by one of the inner-changeable players is PG.
2. In an April 17th interview w/Conrad Brunner, as well as coach O'Brien's last radio show of the season, coach was very specific about the need to "shore up the PG position" with "defensive toughness". The question then becomes how desperate are they to upgrade this position? Which leads us to item #3.
3. The Pacers used five different players at the Point last year: Tinsley, Diener, Flip Murray, Quis and Owens. It's clear that neither Owens nor Murray will be back next year - Owens moreso because he lacks overall skill at the Point, and Murray because he's not a true PG and because the Pacers already have a unique "combo-Guard" in Quis, but in truth he didn't run the Point very well either. That leaves Tinsley and Diener as the Pacers only two viable PGs. Odds are Tinsley won't be back next year (per the radio show link above), but if he does return, it's likely he'll lose his starting role because of his lack of dependability (health wise, but there are obviously other factors that go along with his dependability issues). So, how desperate are the Pacers to upgrade at the Point? I'd say very, but they're not in panic mode just yet. Which leads me to item #4 - picking the best player available and trading him to get a more experienced player (or players). I doubt that will happen, but it remains a plausable option.
Admittedly, the Pacers haven't faired very well when trying to pick up a PG through FA. They had a solid backup in Darrel Armstrong, but let him go due to his age and lack of quickness (though you had to admire the defensive effort he put forth, as well as his seemingly tireless energy; I'd have kept him myself, but I'm not the team's decision maker...). Over the years, they've played "patch-work" at the Point continuously seeking out a viable backup for Tinsley. But in recent years, it's become more and more apparent that despite Tinsley's talents at running the offense, he's not very durable and, thus, can't be relied on for extended play throughout any given season. So, now TPTB are re-thinking their approach to the PG position. Instead of finding "patches" to fill the reserve PG spot in case Tinsley goes down, they want to find a reliable PG for the near future who can defend, score and create shots for himself. And that leds us to where we are now trying to guess who the Pacers might take in the draft.
Among the three leading candidates, D. J. Augustin, Russell Westbrook and Eric Gordon, it is my opinion based on details as outlined above that the Pacers will select Westbrook. NBADraft.net describes Westbrook as follows:
"Attacks the basket with a lethal first step and crossover ability … Can handle the rock well and gets into the lane effortlessly … Huge wingspan allows him to play much bigger than his 6-3 height … Solid passer with unselfishness, always looks for the open man … Has an excellent mid-range game … A gym rat, really works hard to improve … Has a great attitude, extremely coachable … Has the potential to be a big-time scorer when given the chance … Really excels defensively and has a chance to develop into a great defender …Must become better at handling ball pressure at the point guard position."
The only negative on this guy seems to be that he gets alittle rattled when pressed hard (either in the half-court or when doubled). In time, this is something that he can overcome. The key selling point, obviously, is his ability to play solid defense which is what Bird and JOB have both stressed as vital from this position. Now, I'd love to get Augustin because this guy he's a bonafied play maker (based on the scouting report and what I've seen of him), but we've got Granger, Graham and to a limited degree Dunleavy and Quis for that. What the Pacers need is a solid, all-around PG who can pass, shot well from the field, has the ability to finish at the rim AND defend well. Westbrook seems to have all those traits. Of course, the debate will continue until draft night. So, let the debates go on...
Last edited by NuffSaid; 05-22-2008 at 02:37 PM.