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Thread: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    I would prefer Westbrook at #11 but wouldn't be upset if he's already gone and we got DJ. To me, the only thing DJ can do better than Westbrook right now is run the point, and I think Westbrook may be better at that than some people think.

    I also think we should try to move any combination of Ike, Foster, Quis, Tins, and/or Dun to get another pick in the 15-25 range to get either Speights or R. Lopez.

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by Manguera View Post
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    I would prefer Westbrook at #11 but wouldn't be upset if he's already gone and we got DJ. To me, the only thing DJ can do better than Westbrook right now is run the point, and I think Westbrook may be better at that than some people think.
    Augustin's a much better shooter, especially from outside.

    I'm not really sold on either of them but I'm not sold on anyone projected to go from about 6-20. One reason I think the Pacers should look hard at trading either up or down. This is another draft that's loaded with wing players and SF's - folks like Greene, Alexander, Randolph (if we can't get Mayo he's my next pick for us) or Budinger are the players who might be available at 11 that I think have big upsides (could be busts too). You have plenty of SF's.

    Trade down to about 20 and get CDR or figure a way to the top 5 or 6. I just don't see Westbrook or Augustin as being top quality NBA PG's.

    Of course the other thing you could do is go for Jordan and see if he turns out to be anything - he's certainly an athlete. Maybe he can develop some skills.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Is Augustin just Travis Diener or his something more special?

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Is Augustin just Travis Diener or his something more special?
    Augustin is better than Travis Diener.

    Diener is a nice, hard nosed scrapper but he doesn't have a lot of talent. He's a decent backup on some teams and a 12th-15th man on a really good team with backcourt depth.

    With Augustin, you're probably looking at a smaller Jameer Nelson with maybe a little more quickness and a similar overall impact.

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
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    I have a hard time believing Bird will take any kid like Jordan
    with a questionable motor/work ethic. As screwed up as the
    Pacers are, they can't afford to take the chance of this 1st rounder
    busting.
    ...and that is exactly why Bird would probably pick him.

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Augustin is better than Travis Diener.

    Diener is a nice, hard nosed scrapper but he doesn't have a lot of talent. He's a decent backup on some teams and a 12th-15th man on a really good team with backcourt depth.

    With Augustin, you're probably looking at a smaller Jameer Nelson with maybe a little more quickness and a similar overall impact.
    I'd take that with this pick, praying that Obie's system does DJ a lot of good.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Is Augustin just Travis Diener or his something more special?
    I absolutely think he will be much better than Deiner. It's no knock on Travis, but Augustin will attack the basket and I believe he's much quicker than Travis. I also think he may be a leader by nature, again, not that Travis isn't, I think Travis is a great lockeroom guy, much better back up than I anticipated, but to be a leader you have to be willing to take charge and be good enough to back it up.

    I'm not trying to sell anyone on Augustine, the first game he plays against Billups he's going to get pinned down in the low post.

    I think things you can get from Augustine is one of the quickest guys in the league, immediately. 1.) I think he'll be able to pressure the ball for 94 feet and 2.) I think you'll get dribble penetration, which is something Deiner can't bring you with much intensity.

    Now there's obviously a learning curve and the way the Pacers are constructed now, it won't solve any of the Dun/Granger both being small forwards, but it enhances team quickest exponentially.

    It helps the team defense, instantly, that the bigs aren't covering for dribble/drives.

    Augustine will push the ball, he's a natural point guard and will find guys who run, which encourages them to keep running.

    Lets be honest the last real point guard for the Pacers was probably Mark Jackson (minus about 6 weeks of Tinsley's rookie year), Augustine will look like a Godsend to our tired eyes.

    A minor thing is, I think I'd try to really keep Flip, if Augustine is your pick, he'd be exactly the right fit as one of the first Guards off the bench.

    So ya I think Augustine has the same weakness as Travis, but I think the rest of it isn't really a comparison as far as level of play and what he could bring to the table.
    Last edited by Speed; 05-21-2008 at 12:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    Augustin's a much better shooter, especially from outside.
    My bad. You are right. But I still think Westbrook would be the better choice because all I see is DJ getting posted up every night and not being able to get his shot off effectively over taller PGs. Neither will be a franchise PG in my opinion but at least Westbrook can defend the perimeter and also be an effective PG.

    I would be happy with either one if that was who it came down to. But I prefer Westbrook.

    I would be even happier if we traded for Hinrich and then traded down to get Speights or R. Lopez.

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    I'd take that with this pick, praying that Obie's system does DJ a lot of good.
    OBie said the defense starts at the PG spot. DJ Augustine is not a shut down defender. He lacks strength and will get muscled. He lacks heigth and will get posted up.
    DJ Augustine is not a lights out shooter. He needs to work on his shot.

    I feel the Pacers have a lot of holes in their line-up we lack quickness (DJ Helps) but the Pacers need to draft the best player available and if it happens to be a SF/SG fine. Do it and alter the roster via trades. The draft is not where you build your team to win now. Ecspecially, picking 11th overall.

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Walker's had two ACLs I think, I could be wrong.
    You might be right, I know the big story was him coming back from injury. Of course that was the same thing with Brandon Rush. Both looked great this year I thought. So do you ding them with the "it's bound to be a future problem" if it didn't bother them this year?

    Honestly I don't know. If they were hobbled at times THIS year then I see the concern, but remember that Granger's knee had teams shying away from him too.



    I also don't like DJ's defensive awareness. Like most PGs he loves to go after a slow passing lane but he also loves to lose his man when he's on the weakside. I think he got caught closing out way too often because he'd let his man roam and have a clear path for a return pass. He doesn't work to deny a guy floor position, and I don't mean posting I mean just coming off screens and stuff. He doesn't work them like Weaver or even Rush does, and Mayo of course.

    With a guy like Rose you are going to have to make a clean cut, catch and shoot to get the shot off because he is right behind you going over screens. DJ will let you have that and then perhaps lightly deny the general drive by playing soft as he catches up. So now you can triple threat, pop even on a fumble and simply don't feel the pressure to execute.

    As always this applies to "thus far". We all know guys might change their MO at the next level.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 05-21-2008 at 01:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    You might be right, I know the big story was him coming back from injury. Of course that was the same thing with Brandon Rush. Both looked great this year I thought. So do you ding them with the "it's bound to be a future problem" if it didn't bother them this year?

    Honestly I don't know. If they were hobbled at times THIS year then I see the concern, but remember that Granger's knee had teams shying away from him too.



    I also don't like DJ's defensive awareness. Like most PGs he loves to go after a slow passing lane but he also loves to lose his man when he's on the weakside. I think he got caught closing out way too often because he'd let his man roam and have a clear path for a return pass. He doesn't work to deny a guy floor position, and I don't mean posting I mean just coming off screens and stuff. He doesn't work them like Weaver or even Rush does, and Mayo of course.

    With a guy like Rose you are going to have to make a clean cut, catch and shoot to get the shot off because he is right behind you going over screens. DJ will let you have that and then perhaps lightly deny the general drive by playing soft as he catches up. So now you can triple threat, pop even on a fumble and simply don't feel the pressure to execute.

    As always this applies to "thus far". We all know guys might change their MO at the next level.
    I see you referencing Weaver a lot in discussions of defenders in the draft. Honestly, I'd be very happy if we could find a way to obtain him. That's a case where I think you consider calibrating where he'll go and see what might be done with the likes of Daniels, Ike, Shawne or some combination of guys of that approximate ilk.
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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Here's the problem i see with the draft. The bulls are going to take beasley. so all this hinrich talk, me included, is not likely to happen. that leaves rose to miami. miami doesnt have a point guard and that leaves two less options for trading partners than what we are thinking (or hoping). give me a ridnour or watson for quis. realistically thats our best case scenario for a trade.
    Last edited by pacergod2; 05-21-2008 at 02:05 PM.

  13. #63

    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    I would love to get Westbrook because we would have a defensively-capable PG for the first time since...since...since when?

    when Heywoode Workman got hurt and later retired?

    For sure he will have growing pains-- just about all non-superstar NBA PGs do--

    but it would just be refreshing to not see the regular matador defense we have sadly become accustomed to at the PG position.

    (scary though to think that a guard could be a 55% free throw shooter)
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 05-21-2008 at 02:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    when Heywoode Workman got hurt and later retired?

    I was at that game.

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    DJ Augustine is not a lights out shooter. He needs to work on his shot.
    Shooting is one of the best parts of his game. Shot selection's another thing but when you shoot 40% from 3 in college, shooting's not a weakness.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    Shooting is one of the best parts of his game. Shot selection's another thing but when you shoot 40% from 3 in college, shooting's not a weakness.
    I disagree with your statement. I just feel the Pacers should take who they feel is the best player available at 11.
    What I like about DJ Augustine
    1. Quick
    2. Mentality (tough, agressive, wants to win)
    What I do not
    1. Size (I know about Chris Paul but DJ is not CP3) This will lead to match up problems. I see Mario Chalmers being a better pro than DJ is all.

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
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    The slightly tempting thing about Jordan is that if he gets his head
    screwed on right and works hard at his game, 5 years from now,
    he's probably the 3rd best player in this draft. It's too bad the
    Pacers aren't in a better positon to take that kind of risk in hopes
    of the upside paying off. Other than a PG who can play at both ends,
    his size and athletic explosivness up front is the one thing this
    team (sans a healthy J.O. anyway) really needs.
    He'll be gone before number #11, IMO. You can't teach size and he's a legit C who plays like a C. He's athletic, a decent passer, and defender. He'll be off the boards by the time the Pacers make their selection.

    Westbrook is the guy they should select. If he's still available I don't think they'll pass up on another UCLA PG. UCLA guards tend to make the transition to the NBA fairly quickly.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    He'll be gone before number #11, IMO. You can't teach size and he's a legit C who plays like a C. He's athletic, a decent passer, and defender. He'll be off the boards by the time the Pacers make their selection.
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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    If we are concerned about character, i wonder what issues are coming up with augustin.

    http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=20697

    John, Hanalei, HI: Puppy is "Gator". Who in this draft would be perfect for Kevin Martin's Kings?

    David Thorpe: No-I never push the Gators on my kids. That's what my parents and brothers do. I thought Augustin initially, but I've heard scary reports about his character

    Matt (Cohasset): Most draft analysts seem to go out of their way to praise Augustin's character. I think you are confusing him with someone else.

    David Thorpe: No, I'm not. But a team will do far more research than I have. And character issues rarely effect anyone after the top 5.

  20. #70
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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    That's wierd. I'm certainly not going to take some ESPN hack's word on it, but it'd be just our luck to draft a "good character" kid, then have him pull a Tinsley.
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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    ...and that is exactly why Bird would probably pick him.
    I see this mentality all the time. Where's the proof? Danny Granger at #17? Shawne Williams at #17? David Harrison at #29?

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    With DJ you are going to end up with a sum zero effect on the Pacers. What you gain in point skills you give up that much more on defense and getting him posted up. Forget DJ please.
    At least with Westbrook you have a legit defender. That is the only guard that makes
    any sense for the Pacers at this position in the draft.
    If he is gone go for the best player available. That might be a shooting guard. Batum
    or a big man. Jordan,McGee or Love.
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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    How come no one's mentioned Kosta Koufos? Big man who has a lot of offensive skills for a 19 year old. I think he could be a really good player if given time to develop and I like him a lot more than Jordan or McGee.

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    I would love to get Westbrook because we would have a defensively-capable PG for the first time since...since...since when?

    when Heywoode Workman got hurt and later retired?

    For sure he will have growing pains-- just about all non-superstar NBA PGs do--

    but it would just be refreshing to not see the regular matador defense we have sadly become accustomed to at the PG position.

    (scary though to think that a guard could be a 55% free throw shooter)

    Westbrook shot 55% his freshman season, he shot over 70% last season.

    With Westbrook you know you'd be getting the perimeter defender you are looking for but he also has offensive potential that no one is mentioning.

    I'd be fine with him playing lockdown perimeter D while adding about 10-12 points, but I think he also has the potential to be a 17 point 6 assist guy on offense after a season or two, and perhaps even better. Westbrook has a very high ceiling if he can develop some PG skills (I know thats easier said than done)

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    Default Re: Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin

    I think it is fairly likely that westbrook will be gone before 11th. Depends on what mock draft you believe, i guess.

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