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Thread: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

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    Our hero! GrangerRanger's Avatar
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    Default 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Basically this thread is about Russel Westbrooke and my thoughts on the draft.

    Forgive me if you get me wrong here, but personally, I'm not a big fan of this kid. Draftexpress has him compared to Leandro Barabosa. Although no one can really say for certain if he'll have a career like Mister Barabosa, I'd like to say this. If we draft Russell and there is a decent center on the draft board (or a pg/sg that is better then Westbrooke for that matter) then I'll stop watching Pacer's basketball.

    It's really rash but I'm even starting to get tired of losing seasons and drafting players like David Harrsion and Shawne Williams (The fact that Karl Lowry, Jordan Farmar, Mardy Collins, Rajon Rondo, Daniel Gibson, and even Dee Brown were all available at the PG position with this pick). As you can see, our drafting is pretty horrible. We take quality players randomly (Granger, Harringtonish, Reggie Miller, and Rik Smits), and then take players with potential far below the potential that is available that are hot heads.

    We need a center. No use in blowing our only lottery pick on Russell who will be a sub par to starter in the league at the PG position. With Russell, we'll probably make the playoffs for a few years and then end up like Jamal again. The Pacers have never had a true court leader besides Mark Jackson (Travis Best, Jamal Tinsley, Anthony Johnson was great but was dropped as were the potential draft picks because of Jamal, and Pooh Richardson.)

    For Bird and the Pacers just to realize how horrible Jamal is.. after passing up all the talent at that position is there own fault. But however, for them to waste there pick on Russell (if they do) is beyond me. All that talent because you don't know a thing about basketball for Russell "Never heard of you" Westbrooke?

    I've flamed a lot of rookies before, hopefully this one doesn't haunt me as much as the Greg Oden thread could do. However, I still stand by the fact that we need to keep Tinsley or trade him off for another Point Guard (or MID level exe) and draft a center that can not only transition Jermaine into a Power forward (as he is, and played the best as with Brad Miller) but also help Jermaine with interior rebounding and blocking. Jordan and a few others come to my mind with this.

    For any Russell fans, please comment on why you think we should take him?

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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Well, I like Westbrook.. I have seen multiple games he played in and am very impressed with him.. His defense is steller and his offense is quite nice as well.. He isn't the greatest shooter, but he is a very smart player and can get to the hoop at will. The defense rests their case

    To explain a lot of horrible picks with some great ones mixed in.. I think we always pick with potential.. And just most of the time our potential doesn't pan out.. But when it does they seem to be amazing players.

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    Member Mr. Sobchak's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    What the hell have Mardy Collins, Kyle Lowry, and Dee freakin Brown done to deserve being drafted over Shawne? Collins and Lowry are third stringers on terrible teams and Brown is playing in Europe right now. Shawne is a mere 21 years old and oozes potential. Have you forgotten the bulls game this year when he almost single handidly orchestrated that comeback win? Besides Rondo who would you honestly have had after him? Farmar- Maybe. Gibson- Probably Not. Even if you think he deserved to be drafted ahead of Shawne, alot of teams passed on Gibson so how can you blame Bird for that?

    Who are you going to trade Jamaal for? He has NEGATIVE trade value. No team wants to touch him with a 20 ft. pole.


    This team needs one thing: Perimiter DEFENSE. Westbrook was the best perimeter defender in college. Give us one lockdown perimeter defender and we make the playoffs this year. If he turns into a point guard afterwards thats just gravy.

    What center do you want us to draft exactly? Jordan, McGee, Hibbert, or R. Lopez? Project centers rarely develop in the NBA. Here's a list of all the center prospects that have been busts in the past few seasons.

    Pattrick O'Bryant
    Saer Sene
    Hilton Armstrong
    Rafeal Araujo
    Pavel Podkolzine

    And I'm sure there are more I just can't think of any.

    Who exactly has panned out that was a raw center coming out? Bynum? I might be good too if I had Kareem coaching me everyday.


    I'll I am saying is that this team needs good defensive players. He is a proven commodity at defense but has a ton of offensive potential. Jordan did nothing this season at A & M and McGee seems to have the attitude of Harrsion. R. Lopez and Hibbert would be reaches at 11. What center do you suggest we draft??

  4. #4

    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    I wouldn't want to spend a lottery pick on any of the centers in this year's draft. Teams get stuck with slop when the become obsessed with drafting a 7 footer. Remember when the Wolves took Felton Spencer and Luc Longley with consecutive lottery picks? >_<

    Honestly, I'm not big on Augustin or Westbrook either. Augustin has been compared to Jameer Nelson and Westbrook isn't a PG.

    IMHO the bust-ometer is off the charts this year. If the lottery god (ie. Stern) doesn't bless the Pacers with a top-3 pick tomorrow, I'd be fine with dealing the pick or trading down.
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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangerRanger View Post
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    If we draft Russell and there is a decent center on the draft board (or a pg/sg that is better then Westbrooke for that matter) then I'll stop watching Pacer's basketball.
    Other than Lopez, what center would you pick with the #11?

    Alternatively, what PG/SG would you prefer to Westbrooke at 11. Augustin? Rush? CDR? I like Rush and CDR but their biggest fans think they're late-teens picks. And I think Augustin is this year's Acie Law.

    It's really rash but I'm even starting to get tired of losing seasons and drafting players like David Harrsion and Shawne Williams.
    What do these guys have to do with Westbrooke? Harrison was taken at the end of the first round... it was hard to feel bad about that pick.

    We need a center.
    And you're not going to get one at #11.

    All that talent because you don't know a thing about basketball for Russell "Never heard of you" Westbrooke?
    Really? Never heard of him? Guys on this board have been talking about him as a Pacers target since before the tourney.

    However, I still stand by the fact that we need to keep Tinsley or trade him off for another Point Guard (or MID level exe)
    So... we either need to keep Tinsley or trade him. Well that narrows it down.

    draft a center that can not only transition Jermaine into a Power forward (as he is, and played the best as with Brad Miller) but also help Jermaine with interior rebounding and blocking.
    Yeah, that would be awesome. Who do you have in mind? Anybody we drafted now could take 3 years to develop, so Jermaine might be out of the league before this hypothetical player is ready to play for us.

    Jordan and a few others come to my mind with this.
    This is a joke, right? He might someday (5 years from now) be as good as Kandiman... is that a good thing? And the odds are he's closer to Sene. Very few players go 20 years of their lives without any basketball skills and then suddenly develop them once they hit the NBA.

    For any Russell fans, please comment on why you think we should take him?
    I'm not a fan. Short combo guards usually don't work in the NBA. But there's a real chance that he'll be the best player available at #11, and if so I hope we take him. I'd definitely prefer him to DeAndre Jordan. Have you ever seen Jordan play?

    Or, for that matter, Westbrooke?
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    Member Merz's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    As it has already been stated Westbrook would bring the Pacers something they really lack which is perimeter D. He might not be a true point offensively but he can play the postion on D.

    The Pacers were doing ok on offense with Flip Murray starting at point, you don't think Westbrook can play any better than Flip? Dun ussually initiates the offense anyway so why not get someone who can atleast D up the other teams point?

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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Other than Lopez, what center would you pick with the #11?
    I would trade down and get Robin Lopez and another second round pick for a sg. Of course that is easier said then done but whatever.

    I think both of you guys point out that the draft is relatively weak at the 11ths spot at least for our needs. No really sure shot pg's are there and no relatively good defensive big men either.

    Last ditch hope for me is that Kevin drops or someone like EJ slides down to us. Other than that I say trade down.

    Merz you can also find a tweener sg in the second round to play good permiter defense for the pacers. The biggest knock on Westbrook is that he is a legit tweener. The pacers as they are constructed need a pg to create shots for others. Westbrook hasn't shown that he can actually do this in a half-court set. Of course this would be a stupid point if we had players who could create their own shot.

    In the end I won't be made if westbrook is picked because he has a workers mentality.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 05-19-2008 at 11:18 PM.

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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Westbrook is someone I haven't wrapped my head around yet, but because of what I'm reading about his defense, I'm pretty interested.

    And I know that if Jim feels like Flip Murray can play 1 in this offense, Westbrook more than likely can as well.

  9. #9

    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    trading granger for mayo or bayless would solve all of this. and then of course we can draft thompson at #11, then trade for bill walker and be set...mayo/bayless, walker, dun, thompson, jo(?)/foster(?)...that's called young and exciting.
    Last edited by croz24; 05-19-2008 at 11:51 PM.

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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Granger isn't enough for the team with the #1 or #2 pick.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    I had a dream we got the #2 pick. Probably just a dream, but it was a good one

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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    trading granger for mayo or bayless would solve all of this. and then of course we can draft thompson at #11, then trade for bill walker and be set...mayo/bayless, walker, dun, thompson, jo(?)/foster(?)...that's called young and exciting.
    Thompson as in Jason Thompson? 11 is at least 10 picks to early for him. If the Pacers end up starting three rookies (two of them late first rounders) the only thing they'll be set for is an even higher pick next season.

    What is with your infatuation with trading Granger? It seems like you can't go two post without mentioning trading him. Is Granger not "young and exciting" enough for you? Once they get to the age of 24/25 are they looking at the downside of their career? I'm 24 and if everything starts going down from here I might just have to kill myself.

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    Banned Jonathan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    With the 11th pick I would take Speights out of the University of Florida.

    My idea draft would be to trade Tinsley to Cleveland and swap picks our 11th for their 19th. With the 19th pick I would take Robin Lopez or the best big available.

  14. #14

    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    merz - i will not get into why i want granger traded. my stance is clear and i've discussed it probably too many times...just curious, have you seen jason thompson play? not via youtube, but on tv or in person?

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    History is riddled with big-man late-lottery busts. It's what I said in the Augustin thread, I'd rather get a solid if unspectacular player than reach and get burned.
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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Would you trade the #11 to Memphis for Kyle Lowry and the #28?
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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Other than Lopez, what center would you pick with the #11?

    Alternatively, what PG/SG would you prefer to Westbrooke at 11. Augustin? Rush? CDR? I like Rush and CDR but their biggest fans think they're late-teens picks. And I think Augustin is this year's Acie Law.
    TBird got me to break out some tape and I watched a bit of Standford/TX last night. I think DJ has more than Law, but he's so freaking small. He's got some good instincts but I just don't see the translation for him.

    Then watching Lopez I agree that he's great at 11 but I still don't think he's a go-to center, a guy you work off of primarily. Way more Big Z to me, except less finesse and a bit more physical.

    I would consider Arthur at 11 as an OFFENSIVE specialist, a true low post scorer. This could pair with a JO trade.

    Love, if on the board, allows/demands the trade of at least Ike or Troy, perhaps both, but you can keep JO next to him and Foster in front of him for now.

    Not sure what other bigs I'd want at 11. Now down into the 20s and I'd really start to have interest in some PFs. I really like Dorsey and his Dale/Big Ben style of physical PF play.

    Have you ever seen Jordan play?
    Did he play?
    Oh, we aren't counting effort just actually having 2 shoes touching the floor at some point.

    Ad naseum repeat - Jordan turned in the low post to face up on the shorter Kevin Love. Love then took the ball straight out of his hands like he was giving it to him intentionally. That is all, pretty par for course.

    If Jordan becomes something it will mean that he showed a drastic maturing and increase in effort. Sometimes that happens, but do you bet your 11 pick on it when you are a 35 win team?




    Would you trade the #11 to Memphis for Kyle Lowry and the #28?
    Maybe if Brandon Rush was still on the board.

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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Quote Originally Posted by himikey View Post
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    Would you trade the #11 to Memphis for Kyle Lowry and the #28?
    Absolutely not. Kyle Lowry is a career back-up. He's not even close to being worth dropping from late lottery to the end of the 1st round.

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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Pacers need perimeter defense. Doesn't matter what or who you got in the post if opponents get by their man and get your bigs in foul trouble.

    I imagine that the Pacers will evaluate Westbrook's PG skills through workouts or watch him in draft camps. He's a lock down defender who would fit well into this team if he can run the point.

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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Jammer View Post
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    Absolutely not. Kyle Lowry is a career back-up. He's not even close to being worth dropping from late lottery to the end of the 1st round.
    Is that based on stats or a gut feeling? I pulled up players with similar lines at his age. Lowry is ahead of some guys that had good careers.

    Funny enough, Lowry and Rajon Rondo are 2 players we passed on to take Shawne Williams.

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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    With the 11th pick I would take Speights out of the University of Florida.


    I think he's the second best big man prospect in this draft, behind only Beasley. He's just 20 and he already has an above average NBA body, he can score, rebound, he plays tough defense. The sky's the limit.

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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Jared-

    #11 seems a but high for Speights. But maybe not. If you're
    interested, Draftexpress.com has a writeup posted today
    after viewing a Speights workout the other day.

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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    When I think real hard about it, as long as we don't take a SF in the draft, I'll be okay.*






    *unless we're making a 13 player trade

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    Default Re: 2008 NBA Draft: If we get the 11th

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
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    Jared-

    #11 seems a but high for Speights. But maybe not. If you're
    interested, Draftexpress.com has a writeup posted today
    after viewing a Speights workout the other day.
    Read the article, talked about his shot. I think it would be very excellent for the Pacers to have him pair up w/ Jermaine. I do not want to see JO7 traded right now at all, the ideal situation would be to draft a big ie Speights & have JO7 tutor him.
    I do not like the fact they listed his weaknesses as lack of basketball IQ & Lack of Defense. It these are true JOB will not play him.

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