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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

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  • Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

    I'm going to start a few threads from here until the draft about some of the possible players who may be available when we select. I won't try and analyze every player, because there are several of them I have not watched enough to form an intelligent opinion about. One of which I have watched and studied however is Kevin Love, from UCLA.

    Love is the topic of my first draft posting because, in many ways he is a difficult player to figure out. Like many real experts in the league, and like many of you have, I have went back and forth watching him and studying his strengths and weaknesses, and my opinion has ranged from him being a very good pro to being out of the league in 3 years. Because we are slotted perfectly to get Love at #11, and because some mock drafts have him being our actual pick, I decided to rewatch some of his college games I had taped this year.

    Kevin Love, I have decided, is going to be a really really good basketball player at the NBA level. I think he will play on really good teams in his career, and he will be a main reason why they are good, because he does so many intangible things to help a team win throughout a game. Offensively, I rate him as an All Star level player, although defensively he is only average and will struggle in certain matchups.

    Offensively though, he will be an immediate factor in key areas for us if he indeed ends up a Pacer:

    1. He ends being our best passer on the team by far. Love makes the outlet pass on the fast break better than any big man I have seen play since maybe Bill Walton. He has strong hands, great vision, great timing, and a very good awareness of where everyone is on the floor. For a team that wants to play uptempo, Love is a great asset due to his defensive rebounding and outlet abilities.

    2. Love is a great screener. Watching him on tape, he gets really good screen angles on people (A major Pacer weakness), and really hits people solidly. He gets low and wide most of the time, helping cutters like Westbrook and Collison and Shipp get open for shots/drives. By being a "big" screener, he helps everyone on the floor be a better offensive player....passers have more room to make passes, cutters have more space to clear defenders, and shooters have an extra second to get their shots off.

    3. Love makes contested jumpers. What I mean by this is that while Love doesnt have driving ability, he can make tough jump shots with defenders on him closely. This is a difficult skill many cannot do. This makes him very hard and frustrating to guard. In the NBA, he will excel at making the "pick and pop" jump shot after a ball/screen, will excel at making the step back jumper, and will still be able to score inside on putbacks, and posting up smaller guys. I also think eventually Love will develop a 3 point game, much like Mehmet Okur for Utah.

    4. In studying his strengths, I think it is very possible that Kevin Love was put on earth to play alongside a big man like Jermaine O'Neal. Love will compliment JO much like Brad Miller did once upon a time. I am not a proponent of trading O'Neal this summer like so many of you, and because of that a pick of Love looks better to me than it will most of you. If the Pacers draft Love but yet trade O'Neal, they will need to try to acquire a player like a Dale Davis or Rick Mahorn type.


    In fact, in mentioning the old veteran Rick Mahorn, Love i think reminds me alot of.......yes, Bill Laimbeer. Laimbeer was the player I hated more than anyone growing up, but looking back now I see what a key member to championship teams he was. He made big shots, made big plays, and was a key leader on the floor. He played hard, took no prisoners, and was the heart and soul of a tough minded, hard as nails basketball team. Like Love, Laimbeer was limited and needed certain types of players around him, but still was an extremely good player.......a player I call a "winning factor".

    Players I consider Love to be somewhat similar to in the league now are Nenad Kristic of the Nets and Mehmet Okur of the Jazz. I think Love ends up being better than both of these guys, and ends up being a slightly smaller and better version of Brad Miller. As Pacer fans, we'd be happy with that at pick #11, wouldn't we?

    Now, if I were running the Pacers, I'd look to try and add another late first round pick and add another complimentary piece to the puzzle...but that is another topic for another day.

    I'll have thoughts on some other players as we get closer to the draft. As far as Kevin Love goes, consider me a big fan.

    As always, this is just my opinion.

    Tbird

  • #2
    Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

    Thank you, the kid confounds me.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

      Though I think I'd prefer to go for an Augustin or Westbrook, I've got Love #3 (at the #11 pick) on my list for basically the reasons Tbird is listing.

      I consider him one of the lowest risk picks in the draft. I think it's likely that he slot somewhere between solid and pretty good...an NBA starter for a long time who won't get a lot of accolades, but will help his team a lot.

      I haven't really vacillated on him a great deal. I consider him to be an unexciting, but good pick. While we may hope for (or later, long for) someone better, more special, later, I really think that the chances of him completely busting are pretty slim. (Well, as slim as these things get.)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

        I like the Laimbeer comparison and agree mostly. I don't know if he has the size of Laimbeer to play center in the NBA, though.

        IMO, the most important factor in Love's NBA future isn't his passing, or his pick setting, or even his outside shooting. Those are all very nice, but ultimately window dressing.

        How good is he with his off hand?

        That's what has taken David West and Carlos Boozer from mediocre NBA prospects to all-stars.

        If Love shows an ability to post with either hand, I'd take him #11 without question.
        Last edited by Kstat; 05-15-2008, 02:56 PM.

        It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

        Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
        Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
        NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

          Good to have your opinion Tbird!

          Originally posted by Kstat View Post
          I like the Laimbeer comparison and agree mostly. I don't know if he has the size of Laimbeer to play center in the NBA, though.
          I seem to remember Laimbeer being 6'11?, and Love is 6'10, so what do you mean? If anything centers are smaller today than they were when Laimbeer played.
          Last edited by Will Galen; 05-15-2008, 02:56 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

            My only gripe with Love is that he looks uncannily like Tony Soprano's kid. No more thugs!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

              Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
              Good to have your opinion Tbird!



              I seem to remember Laimbeer being 6'11?, and Love is 6'10, so what do you mean? If anything centers are smaller today than they were when Laimbeer played.
              Laimbeer was 7 feet.

              It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

              Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
              Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
              NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

                Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
                Good to have your opinion Tbird!



                I seem to remember Laimbeer being 6'11?, and Love is 6'10, so what do you mean? If anything centers are smaller today than they were when Laimbeer played.
                I don't remember Laimbeer's exact height, but it was at least 6'11" w/o shoes. He was a big guy.

                With Love, you're looking at somewhere between 6'8"-6'9" w/o shoes. His stock goes up if he measure over 6'9" w/o shoes.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

                  Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                  Laimbeer was 7 feet.
                  My memory was right, 6'11. That's also what NBA.com says he was.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

                    Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
                    My memory was right, 6'11. That's also what NBA.com says he was.
                    That's what I remember him always listed at too.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

                      Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
                      My memory was right, 6'11. That's also what NBA.com says he was.
                      If Laimbeer is only an inch taller than Kevin Love, then I'm only an inch shorter than Reggie Miller. There is no freaking way they are close to the same size.

                      It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                      Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                      Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                      NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

                        Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                        I don't know if he has the size of Laimbeer to play center in the NBA, though.
                        Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                        There is no freaking way they are close to the same size.
                        Way to contradict yourself.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

                          I have no idea what that was supposed to mean. Feel free to point out the contradiction.

                          It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                          Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                          Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                          NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

                            Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                            If Laimbeer is only an inch taller than Kevin Love, then I'm only an inch shorter than Reggie Miller. There is no freaking way they are close to the same size.

                            It is one of those optical illusions things. Because Love is wide he does not look as tall.
                            {o,o}
                            |)__)
                            -"-"-

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love

                              Originally posted by owl View Post
                              It is one of those optical illusions things. Because Love is wide he does not look as tall.
                              If he was as tall as he is wide, he'd be shaquille O'Neal.

                              It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                              Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                              Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                              NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                              Comment

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